They got me by the throat...

[ChaosSlayer]

Greetings!
Here is my situation.
Standard size world. Marathon speed. Monarch difficulty. 2 Continents, few big islands. (This is also a mod, but I need mostly strategic advice)

1st Continent: Me (about 12 really well developed cities), England (about 25 cities), India (10 cities), Korea (6 cities). India and Korea are England vassals. At Pleased with England, friends with Korea, and near hate with India who keeps sending dozens of spies into my land. I would kill them long ago, but I can't touch them since they vassal of England. I am early industrial, everyone is about 1 tech era behind me, but catching up fast. I am loosing on production and food, because I control to little land. I would probably start a war, take India, then make peace with England ( I usually don't start wars unless provoked, and so far England did nothing bad to me). English army is about 5 times my army, but its previous era troops, so I can handle them. But wait there is more.

2nd Continent: HUMONGOUS Carthage Empire, that has like 40+ cities, and army is about 20 times of mine. Mongolia is their vassal, and about as big as England. These guys also 1 era behind, but also catching up really fast.

So my Privateers were pillaging Carthage waters a while now (they still at Caravels), when last turn I intercept huge fleet of caravels and transport ships, killing all but one. I was kind of puzzled where they head, when this turn the last transport landed on my shores and Carthage declared war. Ok so I killed their fleet and invasion force even before war began, BUT with their production power there will be new one in like 10 turns, and as soon as they get their own privateers and frigates - my sea dominance is over.

I am certain can keep then away from my shores for now, but I am undecided on how to continue.
Again my initial plan was to take more land on my own continent, double my production base and then take war to Carthage, but now I can't. Carthage is unlike to sign peace treaty and even if they do - they will only use these 10 turns to whip out another huge force and attack again, and If i caught while fighting England and Carthage at the same time, my trade goes to hell as there is no one else in the worlds to trade with, as all other countries are their vassals.
Another thing is - very soon both England and Carthage will have access to Airships and start bombarding my ships.

So here are my options:

Option 1:
-Go hard on Carthage and try to land an army on their continent and start taking it. I am really not liking this option, because:
-I need to built a WHOLE new army, so my current army till guards y English border.
-I need huge fleet of transport ships
-I will need to develop any taken land/cities overseas, while Carthage outnumbers me 20 to 1 and is fighting on his own continent and can just swarm me to death.
-All this time I will praying that England doesn't decide to DOW on me

Option 2:
-Try to reduce Carthage power by mass building even more ships, blocking all of their coastal cities
-Creating specially purposed city attack force, to take and then burn their cities, since holding them doesn't seems feasible. Obliterate their entire coast, hoping to weaken them enough so their Mongolia vassal breaks free, ally with Mongolia and then try to actually conquer Carthage.

So any strategic ideas?

 

[ArchGhost]

Again my initial plan was to take more land on my own continent, double my production base and then take war to Carthage, but now I can't.

Why not? War is a delay at this point, but not a game-ender. Remember Hannibal has the same problem as you do: it's pretty difficult for him to keep anything he takes across the water, and easy for you to take back.

While you have the naval advantage you can try to harry him as long as you can, but naval supremacy usually falls to the AIs anyway eventually. They just build too many boats.




Attacking Carthage when he's that big and making no gains yourself is kind of a fool's errand. It's better to get out of the war and focus at home.

Which English leader matters. If you want to go that (hitting Carthage) route, Vicky and Liz can both DoW at Pleased so you are not safe on the home continent even if Hannibal can't bribe them. Liz is the easiest to beat into submission, and also won't bribe unless Friendly. Vicky will be the biggest pain as she techs strongly, will attack you on her own at Pleased, and can be bribed if Pleased (so do not have her and Hannibal share a war against you!)

In any case, just from the description Diplo is out (vassals will vote for their master generally) and with their size, the AIs are going to outpace you soon. The path I would see would be to instead to weaken England and strengthen yourself for Carthage in the future. This involves getting out of the war with him any way you can (England is Pleased? a bribe for war may help if it's not Liz?) and at the very least try to beg for immunity from England while the war is ongoing.


How close is Korea/India? Is England right on your border? Killing off an English vassal as small as Korea would be much easier and faster than trying to take them down enough to break Wang free. That could lead into jumping on India or England straight up next, depending on how strong you get from the war.

Early Industrial means what, you have Cannon+Rifles or Cav and can get Infantry soon? You have Infantry already? What about Physics? You can do a lot with Cannon spam even to enemy Infantry, especially if you catch them in the open. Airships of your own can help weaken stacks if they don't have Artillery/Rocketry yet (it's rare to see Machine-guns outside cities). If you can get to Infantry + Arty enough artillery will waste everything on the continent until they start to spam tanks or better. Tanks are the final solution but that's a lot of teching and delay, vassals can help speed it up.

The key to engaging England's army is gonna be to hit it before it gets upgraded, with a lot of siege collateral then wiping it. That's how you beat numbers. When there's no more stack taking on the vassals should be easier as anything from England will be piecemeal, or they'll leave you alone while they restack and you can just wipe it again.

You can try to intercept it in the field. An easier tactic may be to take a vassal city and let England take it; that will leave the stack with no defenses in one spot and perfect for a beatdown from City raider units.

Lots of hypotheticals and hard to make a judgement without seeing it in front of me. But I could see it playing out favorably:
-#1 get out of war with Carthage/Bribe England on him
-attack and kill Wang, or hurt India bad (take most of his cities) -> ceasefire -> Attack India/ Finish India and attack Wang. if it's Asoka try to Vassal him and maybe gift some cities back, he techs well.
-attack and vassal England. if you want to keep both India + England as vassals, after killing Wang you'll have to beat on England instead of finishing India.
-tech towards Artillery at the least. If the war goes bad/takes too long Tanks might be a good idea for the future; they are usually the last option before resorting to nukes, and you can take on anything with CR Tanks + Spy revolts. England could help tech, or Asoka (assuming from the spy comment it's him)

Reign in your continent and you can start thinking about how to invade the other. A viking raid burning down coastals is a good idea to start (reduces their boat spam a bit), but you need to get on-continent in force somehow.

Without a naval advantage you can sneak onto the continent with Flight and US with just a one-time naval drop : bring at least two settlers with your initial invasion, raze and resettle 2 cities -- this is so you don't have to wait on the revolt timer and the AIs good cities are gone forever and can't be recaptured in a useful state. Rush Airports, wait a turn to complete them, then liberate them as a colony. Airlift units into your colony's cities and counter the enemy stacks (you need Airports everywhere).

You need a rather robust defense force at first to maintain the foothold, but you can gift away anything captured at this point to the colony to avoid war success against you if it gets captured, and it leaves the enemy forces in a vulnerable spot (since the city changed hands before reconquer, it doesn't instantly come out of revolt!).

This + Spy revolts with mass tank is my preferred way to deal with late game intercontinental warfare to avoid naval micromanagement (or being sunk), but the major hurdle is getting up to both tanks + flight. It should work well enough without having to go all the way to Industrialism, as Flight isn't too hard to get (Physics + Combustion, a vassal to tech the Combustion line is useful while you go Assembly Line path)

 

[krikav]

Sounds like you have a fun game going.
Is it Victoria, Asoka and Kublai?

You are in a rough sport with Hannibal, that much land in the hands of a competent AI as him is hard to handle. how is your diplo situation with him?
If its Victoria she can declare war at pleased. Elizabeth cant iirc, dont recall with Churchill.

 

[ChaosSlayer]

Thank you ArchGhost! I like the way you think I guess I will try to take my own continent first.
This is a very customized and moded game (tech tree somewhat bigger and more complex), so my opponents actually are:
England - Stalin (Pleased), India - Hatshepsut (Annoyed - for the last 1,000 years), Korea - Suryavarman (Friendly)
Carthage - Alexander (was Annoyed before DOW), Mongolia - Kublai (was Pleased)

India is the one right on my border, and Korea is on the other end of the continent.
And yes I am about at Riflemen and Cannons and Airships, but still too far away from Infantry/Artillery.
Both England and Carthage will probably get to Riflemen/Cannons in about 30-50 turns

 

[Gumbolt]

Save would really help.

 

[ChaosSlayer]

Save would really help.

Its a mod - so if you really want to install that one too - I will gladly arrange

ALSO - some new development - India just broke free from England vassalage! Good for them - my 2 armies standing on their border immediately invaded - independence comes with a price tag