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Things we'd like to see in MOO2Civ

Discussion in 'Civ4 - MOO2Civ' started by Agent327, May 22, 2009.

  1. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    I read the first two lines and my first idea is, "hell yes!" My second idea is, "but only if it works and doesn't delay the rest of the game." :D
     
  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Agreed. Only one way to find out...
     
  3. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I would like to see the number of fighters and bombers garrisoned in a city limited, something like two per star, then increase that to something like eight when you build a fighter garrison. Isn't that how vanilla bts is?

    I would also like to be able to pay to upgrade fighters and bombers once a new one is available.

    I would like to be able to buy things with credits, like you could in MOO2.

    I personally like the space lanes even if they are a pain in the neck to keep up and running. It's nice to be able to travel faster between your own stars.

    Edit
    Oh, and would welcome anything that increases the game speed.
     
  4. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Good ideas - although I can't say if and when I'll be able to implement them (I'm backlogged on things TO DO as it is and haven't been able to mod at all this week). I've been wondering about fighters and bombers myself (they don;t seem to get any promotions, although you can upgrade them). As for speeding things up, I haven't heard back from Arakhor lately...

    Some good news though: just received a PM from CyberChrist, who's working on a revised and extended ship promotion system and a specialized ship building screen. (Maybe some time before it'll be in Beta state, but it's definitely made me curious.)

    That said, I'm going to do some testing now. More news later!
     
  5. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I've been wondering about the mod's current system of troops and stars and transports. The way Civ4 chooses the strongest unit to defend in a stack always leaves your ships fighting the batteloids first, then they take out the defending fleet on a star.

    I thought it might make it more like MoO2's system with two changes.
    I saw that it's possible to have units defend first in a stack even if they are weaker. (Thomas's war mod has citizens with strength of 1 defend first to waste the turn of the attacker). I don't know how they did it though.

    First, set all spaceships to defend first in a stack so they protect transports.
    Second, change the transport's bonus to 200% against troops (battloids & such) instead of against cities. This way a person can't take a planet using only transports. Also they can't take a planet using only spaceships. They will need a fleet of ships to kill the defending fleet first then they can use transports to capture the planet.
     
  6. Khazaar

    Khazaar Chieftain

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    I guess you could use the units strenghts and weaknesses to make sure that the right units defend against an attacking fleet. Eg. fighters get a good bonus against transports and capships and so on...
     
  7. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I like the idea, but it's a bit problematic to implement; early spaceships aren't that strong, leaving the planetary defense units as the main protection against invasion (unless you intercept invaders off-planet). Later spaceships (like Battleships) are already strong enough to serve as primary defender (even with the later generation Battleoids as planetary defense force). Invasion Ships have a planet attack bonus, so they'll target the planetary units (which is their purpose) - but it's always wise to intercept them with space ships before they reach a system. (I realize the AI generally doesn't do this, but tends simply to stack units in a system - although they may counterattack if the enemy stack is damaged enough.) So a thorough reworking of the unit promotions would be necessary (and ideally an actual Transport unit, which is currently missing). I'll keep it in mind, but I'm afraid it's currently not a high priority on my TO DO list.
     
  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Oh, I’m still here, Jeelen. I just thought you were on a modding break! CAR seems to work wonders with Afforess’s A New Dawn, so there’s no reason to assume that it wouldn’t work for Civ-MoO2. I’ll have to see about starting up a game of 3.19 MoO2 to try it out.
     
  9. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Didn't think you had gone missing. Yes, I know. (ROM AND is a huge mod by comparison, BTW.) I also heard deanej's going to go CAR with Star Trek 3.0, in case you're interested.
     
  10. Asthix

    Asthix Prognosticator

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    For what its worth, I can confirm the civlopedia ctd. After a few trials, it seems to crash if you click on an in page link for any unit. I was able to link to stuff and look at multiple pages as long as it didn't involve units.

    Edit: unit to unit link that crashed was probe > scout
     
  11. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Any unit? Wow, that's not good... last report involved 1 or 2 units. Thanks for mentioning this.
     
  12. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    The race adjustments seem out of whack. The Alkari get higher science than the Psilons, the Trilarians don't get any racial adjustments at all and the Humans get some really tanky abilities.

    I really dislike world-wrap for the MoO2 map, but the only current map comes with it automatically. I also really dislike the tradelanes, as they don't feel MoO-ish at all.
     
  13. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Yes, it's a typical Civ-thing, I guess. (deanej removed them from his Star Trek mod, but I ahven't inquired yet how he did it.)

    Racial/leader traits aren't done yet:

    - Psilons should probably have like 25% science bonus
    - the Trilarian science bonus is a replacement thing for their Aquatic ability (I don't think it fits very well, they already start each colony with pop 2)
    - Elerians aren't thought out yet.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "tanky" Human abilities, but I'm thinking of just swapping their science bonus with the Psilon one (the basic Human trait being Charisma, not Science.) There also has been mentioned the idea of a greatly expanded (and race specific) tech tree. I don't know if that's feasible (not currently for me at least), but CyberChrist is still working on something along those lines, if I remember correctly. (Had a PM exchange with him earlier this or last week.)

    As for the maps, FF Flatmap isn't wrapped, nor is Spiral Galaxy (nor are TC01's Wormhole and Enclosed Mapscripts, but they're currently not in the Beta).

    On that note, I should probably update post #1 here with suggestions mentioned and if they're being worked on and/or being considered or not.
     
  14. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    In regards to that idea I had to split each technology up to it's own thing to make the tech tree more like MOO2's tech tree.

    If I made the new tech tree would you use it? I've only learned minor modding techniques for Civ 4 but I'm learning more and am willing to learn how to do this if you guys are up for the idea.

    See? Look what you've done now, got me volunteering to help for another project, I knew this would happen if I came here too often. :)
     
  15. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I've seen a couple people curse the space lanes because they are so hard to keep up and running.

    I have found how to let the player trade across space like civ4 lets players trade across ocean and coast if you're interested.

    This will make the mod more like moo2 where trade was automatic. Players will still need extraction facilities to get their rare resources but it would be harder to hinder civilizations by taking out their resources as extraction facilities are easier to defend.

    I think it would be a good change but I'd rather see the space lanes left in for speedy travel between stars. Who knows, they might become useless if we enable trading over space. I could change it and test it first if you like.
     
  16. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Wow, you post faster than I can read... :crazyeye:

    As said, I have no objection to splitting the tech tree (or any improvement for the mod) - as long as it works. So I say go right ahead!

    Since trade lanes aren't in MOO period, I also see no objection to implementing that (as with removing the space lanes from the regular mapscripts).

    On another note I got a PM from CyberChrist some time ago concerning a.o. the possible replacement of the Stealth Ship by a Stealth promotion; this would open op a ship slot for, say, a Doomstar model (which is still missing!). Perhaps you might want to contact him on editing the tech tree. ;)
     
  17. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I've been messing with trading over space and I haven't gotten it to work yet. I simply added this to the cold fusion tech:

    <TerrainTrades>
    <TerrainTrade>
    <TerrainType>TERRAIN_TUNDRA</TerrainType>
    <bTerrainTrade>1</bTerrainTrade>
    </TerrainTrade>
    <TerrainTrades>

    It now says on the tech that cold fusion enables trading over space but it does not work in the game still. What terrains are actually used in a Moo2Civ map? It appears that tundra is space and the nebula is ice, and star systems are just features. Anything else a person would need to trade on to make this work?

    I don't see why he didn't just create new terrain types to simplify it all. After spending time looking through how this mod was made I've come to a conclusion that it's a mess! No wonder so many people have problems with crashes.
     
  18. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I mentioned a few post back that deanej already did away with Star Lanes (not Hyperdrives) in his Star Trek mod; might be quicker to ask him how he did it. (He also noticed some basic messyness about Final Frontier, but I'm not sure if that is crash-related...)

    BTW, feel free to start your own thread here about what you're working on.
     
  19. fulano

    fulano Chieftain

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    I am planning to start my own thread, but I have one more question before I start the project. Do you know if there is a limit on technologies? Making this sort of a tech tree will put around 200 technologies in the game, possibly more.
     
  20. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    To be true, I don't know; all I know is that modders add techs to the tree, not if there's a cap (seems likely, but I wouldn't know what the cap is). Haven't tried anything like this yet... :dunno:

    On that subject, I remember suggesting to deanej the Star Trek tech tree was too short/small; at the time he didn't want to do anything about it, but with Star Trek 2.0 the tech tree has been expanded anyway. Seeing as the same applies to MOO2Civ (there's a point when research - and production! - easily outstrips techs, leaving nothing left to discover, well before the game will end), I see no problem with expanding the techs as far as they will go.
     

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