This is what I never understood about starting locations...

[Theov]

In the starting location below, is it better to build the city on the cow, or move one place and build it somewhere else.
I already know there is a wines on the purple dot...
So what's the best location and why?

Thanks.

 

[thetrooper]

Move your settler one south (at least) to the BG there. Reason; the cattle tile is a food bonus that you can refine by either irrigation or mine. You will not gain that bonus if you settle on it. And you will also get less plains tiles in your most important city. The BG you move your settler to will be on a river too, so you'll get your 'free' aquaduct.

 

[thetrooper]

And while we're at it. Your worker starts irrigation (I prefer extra food early on) right away. When irrigation is finished start a road (*never* leave a tile unroaded before you move off it). Then mine the BG SE (+ road after completing the mine). Then it's prolly time to road that wine. Stay off the plains until you need them. Please post a screenie after you expand.

 

[Theov]

the cattle tile is a food bonus that you can refine by either irrigation or mine. You will not gain that bonus if you settle on it.

thanks, that was the info I was looking for.

 

[Theov]

There we are.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Yeesh, that land to the south sucks ....

 

[Theov]

Yeesh, that land to the south sucks ....

...and that's only half you see there.

There's some banana's and smoke pots, but it takes a hundred workers to get there. I've had that in another game too - it's a pain.
No rivers in the north either...

 

[timerover51]

Hmmm, that is one of the "looks great" to start with, and then reality crashes the party. You would almost have done better to stay on the cow, since the plains to the north would be more productive than the marshes to the south. However, if rubber or oil shows up on them, you will be in good shape. To tell, you need to play the game out for a while.

 

[thetrooper]

You would almost have done better to stay on the cow, since the plains to the north would be more productive than the marshes to the south.

No way!

Trondheim can work:

3 BGs on rivers
1 Irrigated plains with cattle
1 Game in forest
2 Irrigated wines on rivers
2 forest tiles

before he have to think about clearing marshes. That's 9 citizens.

Trondheim is almost a 20k city if you ask me.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

With all those food bonuses and the BGs that's easily a 4 turn SF/2 turn WF. You'll need a granary for that though.

 

[Optional]

Yes, and then it should always be a settler factory, of course. I think it needs to start at at least size 4.5 for that, considering the 2 wines that don't give shields.
Are you interested in setting it up like that, Theov? I never understood settler factories until Thinktank made an exact progression table in a succession game. I can do that for you, if you want; posting a table like that.

 

[Spoonwood]

Yes, and then it should always be a settler factory, of course. I think it needs to start at at least size 4.5 for that, considering the 2 wines that don't give shields.

A 4-turn settler factory needs 30 shields in 4 turns and 10 food in 2 turns and 10 turns in the next 2 turns also. It's possible to run a 4-turn settler factory from size 2 to 4 in despotism... see the screenshot here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7136009 Oh sorry, you weren't denying that, you were talking about the start given... my mistake.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Here are some musing on what might be possible once the Despotism penalty does not apply any more. When the government is either Monarchy or Republic (SPF= Surplusfood):


1-turn Worker factory

1st turn - Size 6:

2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> City Center
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
2 SPFood + 2 Shields --> irrigated Plains Cow
2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> irrigated Plains Deer*
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG​

=> 10 SPFood + 8 Shields + 2 Shields on growth from a forest maybe.




3-turn Settler factory

1st turn - Size 5:

2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> City Center
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
2 SPFood + 2 Shields --> irrigated Plains Cow
2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> irrigated Plains Deer*
0 SPFood + 1 Shields --> irrigated Plains​

=> 10 SPFood + 5 Shields + 2 Shields on growth from a forest maybe.


2nd Turn - Size 6 (after heavy micromanagement):

2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> City Center
2 SPFood + 2 Shields --> irrigated Plains Cow
2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> irrigated Plains Deer*
-1 SPFood + 2 Shields --> A forest
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG​

=> 5 SPFood + 12 Shields (no growth)


3rd Turn - Size 6 (light MM):

2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> City Center
2 SPFood + 2 Shields --> irrigated Plains Cow
2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> irrigated Plains Deer*
-1 SPFood + 2 Shields --> A forest
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 1 Shields --> irrigated Plains​

=> 5 SPFood + 11 Shields (shields from growth no longer necessary)

Overall: 30 shields



Of course there are alternatives to make the 3 turner work. Micromanaging both Wines to another city might not be possible:

3-turn Settler factory alternative

1st turn - Size 5:

2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> City Center
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
2 SPFood + 2 Shields --> irrigated Plains Cow
2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> irrigated Plains Deer*
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG​

=> 10 SPFood + 6 Shields + 2 Shields on growth from a forest maybe.


2nd Turn - Size 6 (after heavy micromanagement):

2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> City Center
2 SPFood + 2 Shields --> irrigated Plains Cow
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
-1 SPFood + 2 Shields --> A forest
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG​

=> 5 SPFood + 11 Shields (no growth)


3rd Turn - Size 6 (no MM):

2 SPFood + 1 Shield --> City Center
2 SPFood + 2 Shields --> irrigated Plains Cow
2 SPFood + 0 Shield --> irrigated Wines
-1 SPFood + 2 Shields --> A forest
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG
0 SPFood + 2 Shields --> mined BG​

=> 5 SPFood + 11 Shields (shields from growth no longer necessary)

Overall: 30 shields



*If the deer is not on a plains tile, a mined grassland deer would work just as well.


It isn't really as complicated as it looks ...