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Thoughts about some tweaks

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by migck, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. usi

    usi Shogun

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    I'm happy to know that you are pretty knowledgeable and polite, since talking with someone like you is far more beneficial than talking with a typical online Korean nationalist.

    That's shorter than alternative terms but conveys no meaning for most people who have not learned Korean calendar. As a result, people (if ever interested) need to google the word and then see "Japanese invasions of Korea," which is slightly longer but anyone can clearly understand.

    That's partially true. Since Japan believed that Chinese culture brought from Korea might not be good enough, Japan often sent scholars directly to China, e.g. Japanese missions to Tang China.

    It is like Xuanzang visiting India for learning Buddhism, as he though Buddism was altered by other peoples in between. In this case though, unlike Koreans, the various peoples in between won't claim that they, as middle-men, brought Indian culture to China.

    Much earlier (and larger) Kofun were found in Japan than in Korea. So if there is a connection between Japan and Baekje, Japan would be pre-Baekje, not the other way around. This can also explain why Yamato court fought against Tang-Silla alliance sending more soldiers than glorious Tang dynasty.

    What is particularly interesting to add here is that actually Japanese Empire is the one which tried to spread the idea that Japan and Korea have the same root. Japan was looking for ways to justify that the two countries should be united as one. As such, in the earth 20th C Japan, Nihonshoki was brought up as an important historical text, since (1) this is the only old text that talks about the influence and (2) this text says that Japan controlled a part of Korea. While I don't give much credit to Nihonsoki, it is at least older than Korean historical texts like Samguk Sagi, for which Koreans tend to give enormous credit.

    Koreans seem to put pride for anything, and claims without logic are nothing but temper tantrums. If throwing temper tantrums is their pride, I would disregard their pride.
     
  2. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    I don't think there's anything else left to debate as we don't actually seem to disagree on anything, haha.
    Unless you would like to continue discussing obscure Far East Asian history
    that most of the rest of the forum is rather unknowledgeable about.

    I just don't know if OP has seen this minor thread derail
    (and looked at the suggestions that OP's current Hwacha + Seowon placement is fine as is, contrary to OP's second thoughts)
     
  3. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Well, that was... enlightening, to say the least :lol:
    Somehow I feared that discussing about the Koreans' assets could lead to something like this, but I'm glad to see it has lead to some wisdom sharing.
    I would love to add Korea as a separate civ, like in the other RFC modmods such as Dawn of Civilization (and the Zulu, Byzantines, Holy Rome separated from Germany, and maybe some more) but I have an awful lot of modding to learn before that happens.

    I've left the UU and UB with China, though it does make a Japanese invasion of China (which I consider almost mandatory for their UHV goals) even more challenging, by the time the Samurais arrive, which is the only good medieval Japanese assault unit in lack of horses, the Chinese will have Cho-ko-nus and Hwachas, both with collateral damage and +50% against melee units.
    But I still managed to conquer China! :D At Viceroy :(
     
  4. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    If you time the invasion in concert with the Mongol invasion and backstab the Mongols afterward, you shouldn't have much of a problem picking up China.

    Conversely, all China needs to do to pick up Japan is to wait for their spawn date, and rush in amphibiously with
    Macemen/Knights when the AI moves out almost all their units out of their capital on the turn that they spawn.

    EDIT: You will have to raze the cap, otherwise you'll suffer from the flip.
     
  5. Thor Macklin

    Thor Macklin Chieftain

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    On the topic of tweaks I was curious about editing the resource python file. Mainly to move the spawn dates to around 620 or so. Main reason being well..none at all I just wanted to do it.

    Thing is when the turn rolled around the resources didn't show. Doing something wrong with tweaks?

    EDIT: neveermind I think I found the issue.

    Oh but on another issue Guiyang is already in the map coding. But my problem is I can't put it in without messing up the great wall annd who knows what else. Any python I should edit to fix this?
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    In the 600 AD scenario, there are several "extra" cities in China so that culture is in the right places when the Great Wall is drawn. These are removed before the game starts, Guiyang is covered by that. Best way to circumvent this is to spawn Guiyang a little later using the Barbs.py module.
     
  7. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Ok, I'm going to try merging in the Global Warming mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=302649) and the Better AI mod (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=297810). The first one I've already merged the changes to the SDK and XML, the second has 58 SDK files changed and I've just merged two so far. I guess I should have tried with the Global Warming mod alone first to see if I'm doing it right...
    Anyone has any suggestions? I'm basically using the compare function of Notepad++ and my best at interpreting what to me is an arcane language, so any tips to avoid messing up or incorporating some extra tweaks in the process are welcome. I have managed to compile a DLL before, but that time it was a simple 50 civ change.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    So you have a compiler ready? As long as you're integrating others' changes and don't remove anything RFC related (can happen in case of RFC's AI), you should by fine with merging. Just test it and see if the game still runs ;)
     
  9. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Gah, impossible, it seems RFC code already incorporates some parts of Better AI and the Unofficial Patch, plus it has to change some parts to suit its own mechanics, plus there are code optimizations which make some code from BBAI outdated... I would need a degree in Computer Science to achieve a Better AI update to RFC by myself, and I have to wonder what gameplay mess would result from not really accounting stability... the AI becoming so competent at land grabbing and conquest that it continually overexpands and collapses?
    I'll leave it at the Global Warming mod and some little changes from Mongoose that I can cope with.
     
  10. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Well, that was easier than I thought. My DLL works! I tried an American game in Monarch difficulty to see if things were more or less fine... Arabia had managed to cover all northern Africa, its vassal Babylonia had conquered Persia but was stuck in the middle ages, and it seemed America was pretty much the tech leader as soon as it spawned, quite unusual.

    Another thing which really needs to be implemented, is there some way to ensure that the unplayable civs cannot influence diplomacy nor AI players in any way? That would be the Independents1 and Independents2, which appear from collapses and in some locations, and the Natives, from Africa and America. Currently it seems AI Ragnar gets pissed when you declare war on the independents or nuke the natives (ok, the part about nukes I can see because its outright evil), and you can negotiate with declaring war or peace with them, not to mention that some random events might target them.

    Edit to save a new post: it seems when a city falls to collapse or is traded in a congress, the code that removes national wonders in CvRFCEventHandler.py has some issues:
    Code:
    def onCityAcquired(self, argsList):
    	if (bTrade):
    		for i in range (con.iScotlandYard +1 - con.iHeroicEpic):
    			iNationalWonder = i + con.iHeroicEpic
    			if (city.hasBuilding(iNationalWonder)):
    				city.setHasRealBuilding((iNationalWonder), False)
    
    This removes the national wonders turned to world wonders in RFC (Mt Rushmore and Channel Tunnel) because they come after the Heroic Epic (turned to Colosseum world wonder in RFC). Besides, it doesn't remove the Palace, Summer Palace, nor Olympic Park.
    My best guess to solve this is to use several for i in range blocks, plus direct checks for those last three, but I wonder if there's an easier way to code such a thing?
     
  11. killerkebab

    killerkebab Chieftain

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    Wait, let me get this straight - you said it would be impossible for you to do...

    ... and then in less than 24 hours you've done it? Kudos, sir :D
     
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I think he meant the GlobalWarning mod and Mongoose's changes.
     
  13. Thor Macklin

    Thor Macklin Chieftain

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    Perhaps some pre-set civic edits are in order? Egypt has them for historical accuracy so why shouldn't others? For instance the mongols receiving the occupation civic. Not sure how the AI would use it but I think it would be a blast to be able to conquer as you please with no fears of stability...until your economy fully tanks.

    Just like the real mongols
     
  14. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

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    Isn't the Egyptian Unique Power that they start with those civics (Hereditary Rule and Slavery if I remember correctly)?
     
  15. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    I view Occupation as systematic replacement of the conquered territories' civilian population with your own, the Mongols just beat the Chinese armies and the civilians were happy to welcome their new Khan overlords... until Ming Tai Zu and his revolution beat them back to Mongolia.
    He was such a badass emperor, from being a peasant whose family was slaughtered and taking shelter in a Buddhist monastery, to becoming leader of the revolution and finally the first emperor of his dinasty. I would add him back in my setup if there was a more suitable leaderhead, but back on topic...
    I view the Mongols' conquests as simple subjugation, and their empire didn't last long. Their UHV challenge is then to hold China and an enormous empire while lacking the appropriate civics for that.

    Anyone knows some way/s to exclude the Independents, Natives and Celts from diplomacy or random events?
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Easiest solution is to add a Python callback to all events that verifies that the player isn't a minor.
     
  17. Thor Macklin

    Thor Macklin Chieftain

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    @migck...yes but...okay my defense here is that it's fun and I want to conquer the whole world with less worries about stability. THe way I figure it (By that I mean guess out of the blue) By the time you get a semi-historical finish your economy will be dead in the water.

    Also: Gave the Hammam an 8 exp point for new land units. To me this would help with newly conquered cities. Not like the AI in my games knew what to do with the units. But I think it would really help the players, new cities and afew conquered ones can get themselves well defended with just afew units.

    THen gave the Roman legion the upgrade for 100% exp or whatever. This pretty much allows for a constantly strengthening army until you research say...civil service. Thus to emulate a decline in military strength.

    Take note I am doing no real mathematical calculations here, nor do I take in to account how smart human players are.
     
  18. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Hammam 8 exp? Isn't that a bit insane? I see no military problem with the Turks, the Janissaries already pack a good punch and their UHV targets are generally dead, or at least quite handicapped in tech and stability by the time they appear.
    Sure, steam rolling through the world with no worries can be fun, but a good challenge every now and then can be even better (says someone who can hardly beat Viceroy :D, and I've never tried the Mongols except for those two tries were China had pikemen on the Mongols' spawning and my morale plummeted)

    Also, I'm moving to RAND... I can't believe I didn't try it before, its like a dream come true! Well, except that the code is dated and I have to work to incorporate the changes from RFCMarathon to it, but so far I've managed to merge my changes to standard RFC + the CAR mod and BTS on Speed parts.
     
  19. Thor Macklin

    Thor Macklin Chieftain

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    Well kudos man! ]

    And yes 8 IS abit much. But for some reason I have NEVER ONCE seen the Ottomans conquer past mesopatamia. SURE GO INTO INDIA! They conquer like alexander but never get egypt. I think I'll reduce it to 4 or so

    Also:
    Gave Persians: Madrassa
    Gave Egypt: Hammam and Madrassa
    Gave Arabia: Hammam and Apothecary
    Gave Ottomans: Madrassa

    And if you think I make it easy..I've given keshiks city raider I,II, and III..Plus blitz.
    For the human player the game is pathetically easy. For the AI it is the epitomy of difficulty conquering china.
    Honestly just three good pikeman outside beijing would defend against all of them.

    I also removed all obsoletions. (did I just coin a term? XD) Simply put the monestary is an awesome building and I hate stalling studying sci method until all my cities have it.

    I'll upload afew of my files in abit.
     
  20. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    After I learned about WinMerge and its many goodnesses, I went again to tackle the daunting task of merging Better BTS AI and RAND... and I failed hard of course. WinMerge makes it 500% easier and faster, but even that is not enough when you know nearly nothing about C++ :( There are just too many conflicting giant blocks of code where I would have to figure what Rhye wants and what Better AI wants, and I simply can't interpret them, not to mention I don't have the overall picture of what the whole code would end up doing.
    I do not doubt that being based on such a language makes Civ 4 one of the most modifiable games around, but the complexity of it is a serious barrier.
    I can't help but compare it with Oblivion scripting, which has its own compiler, doesn't care about indentation or syntax, has its own centralized modding wiki... but its baby stuff compared to Civ, since you can't really modify the source code, just add new stuff based on existing rules.
     

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