Thoughts on Diablo III?

To be fair, they also focus on story quite a lot.
Not necessarily a great one, but I found the overall story ark in WC3 to be quite enjoyable (until it got completely raped by later WOW expansions :cry:).

One of the main selling point for D2 and WC3 were the amazing cinematics and the story behind it. The story from WC3 might have been a bit cheesy here in and there, but it was certainly done great considering that it was an RTS. And the addon did actually add a lot of cool mechanics into the campaign (almost like minigames) that I had never seen before in any RTS.

Getting the gear and skills as easy handouts leaves ... what, exactly?
I don't think its really an easy handout. I find the game to be much harder when playing on appropriate difficulty.
I mean, Bhaal runs in D2 weren't exactly challenging either, the worst thing was probably the lag inbetween spawning his minion waves.
:p

Warcraft is like an Age of Empires game with heavily reduced tech options (and no harvesting etc. techs), few units, fewer resource types and those at fixed points on the map where you can set up bases (no trading posts or settlements just for harvesting and military buildings here), the removal of harvesting buildings, and towers as the only form of fortifications. You need this sort of simplicity for an 'e-sport: basic rules with few moving parts; Starcraft and WCIII became competitive sports, AoE and Cossacks never did.
I am not 100% sure if that is a fair comparison. Because if I look at Empire Earth, I could say: "Oh, Age 2 is just a watered down game with less techs, units and ressources". I think that is more a question of scope. But I agree that WC3 is certainly one of the micro-management games (or as I call them: "fast clickers").
 
To be fair, they also focus on story quite a lot.
Not necessarily a great one, but I found the overall story ark in WC3 to be quite enjoyable (until it got completely raped by later WOW expansions :cry:).

One of the main selling point for D2 and WC3 were the amazing cinematics and the story behind it. The story from WC3 might have been a bit cheesy here in and there, but it was certainly done great considering that it was an RTS. And the addon did actually add a lot of cool mechanics into the campaign (almost like minigames) that I had never seen before in any RTS.

I only really recall the Starcraft and Diablo storylines, neither of which is great. I rather like the Diablo background (i.e. the setting in which the story takes place), but the actual story is fairly dismal and rinse-and-repeat in each incarnation of the game. I'm not sure you can really say Blizzard focuses on the story with Diablo, since the game is based on isometric RPGs that were typically much more strongly story-focused (e.g. Baldur's Gate - sure, the original had a caricatured storyline as well, but it put a lot more effort into its characters and side quests than Diablo).

The Starcraft storyline seemed basically patched together merely for a functional reason: it had to give every faction a reason to go to war with one another (as well as each a civil war), and reasons to ally with one another, so that every possible player combination could be explained within the game world. As such it was cursory and every faction got more or less the same storyline (even when it didn't make much sense for the Zerg to have a rebel faction, or when faction alliances became rather contrived). And Starcraft doesn't have the benefit of a detailed backstory of the sort Diablo has.

But that was at least a step up from Starcraft 2, where they seem to have altogether forgotten the functional point of an RTS campaign story but the story itself isn't any better.


I don't think its really an easy handout. I find the game to be much harder when playing on appropriate difficulty.

Again, the difficulty isn't the issue. I mean "easy" in the sense that you can rely on getting good drops most of the time from any given champion or boss fight - you don't have to progress through entire levels to get your next upgrade. And the higher the difficulty, the faster you gain new skills - my Demon Hunter just killed the Skeleton King on Master, and she's already level 23.

My point is, why play Diablo at all if you can just get the loot you need, at need? It's fundamentally an exploration game - it's hardly as though running through dungeons repeatedly pressing 4 makes for a great action or combat experience. Most of the time, you shouldn't be turning up much you can use. Once you've found El Dorado, what's the incentive to explore further?

I think with the patch change they also need a new 'unique' item class, for what legendary items are now, and put legendaries back where they were. It's a bit sad when that legendary crossbow I got soon became obsoleted first by a rare bow, and then I think even by a higher-level magic bow. And again "legendaries" are much too common to justify the questing for them. Someone had put legendary bracers in a barrel for some reason, in my game.

I am not 100% sure if that is a fair comparison. Because if I look at Empire Earth, I could say: "Oh, Age 2 is just a watered down game with less techs, units and ressources". I think that is more a question of scope. But I agree that WC3 is certainly one of the micro-management games (or as I call them: "fast clickers").

I use AoE as a point of comparison because it's the other big RTS of that era (except C&C, which I never played), and in general mechanics is quite similar. My point is more general, though: Warcraft and Starcraft are simplified compared to pretty much every other RTS both of their time and since, which is very good for accessibility (they're by far the most popular RTSes) but has given RTSes a poor reputation outside that genre because they are seen, as you mention, as games all about 'fast clicking'. To be fair this isn't really true of either Warcraft or Starcraft, but I doubt the stereotype would exist at all if Cossacks (a game whose tutorials had over 100 gameplay tips) were the 'default' RTS. What's more, this is the way Warcraft was designed from the start - AoE 2 was designed based on the pre-existing AoE and that predated Empire Earth.

I find Torchlight 2 to be more interesting and customizable, closer to D2.

I'm not sure why I never got into Torchlight 2 - I just didn't find it enjoyable. Somehow it felt too much like an MMO, possibly partly due to the pet system and partly the graphic design (which I loathe). Based on a tip here, and since it's free, I just tried Path of Exile - stylistically closer to Diablo, and gamewise nearly an exact clone except for the loot system. I really like their approach to item customisation - most things are socketed, and socketable items tend to add specific magic abilities like fireballs (with limited numbers of charges a la D2). Not that I got very far since it crashed just after I killed the first boss, and it seems to want to force online interaction (you can't even minimise or close the chat window), which is not something I particularly want in a single-player game - I'm one of those who detests the fact that D3 is online-only even in single player (i.e. default) mode.
 
Diablo 3 is half off for a couple days. Should I get it? $20 is a lot to spend on a game when my backlog is so huge but it's blizzard, not really expecting cheaper.
 
I loaded up path of exile, played for 10 minutes, but it didn't seem intuitive, IDK just didn't grab my attention. Torchlight 2 is very easy to pick up, though not that compelling. Wondering if Diablo 3 is better than both of those.
 
I know it goes against the general theme of the thread but I had quite a lot of fun playing Diablo 3. Probably played it for 2 or 3 months with a decent amount of game time. I guess it helped that there was a group of us playing the game.

I've played Torchlight 2 and completed it on normal but didn't quite get involved in it to the same level.
 
I loaded up path of exile, played for 10 minutes, but it didn't seem intuitive, IDK just didn't grab my attention. Torchlight 2 is very easy to pick up, though not that compelling. Wondering if Diablo 3 is better than both of those.

Well, have you ever played a game in the genre that you felt was compelling then? 'Cause if neither Path of Exile or Torchlight 2 grab your attention much, I don't see how Diablo 3's gonna be better.

It might, in the sense that it probably has more fast-paced action and is flashy and the skill usage is more streamlined and kind of fun to play around with. It feels pretty "smooth". So yeah, you could enjoy it. But it's hard to recommend you spend 20$ on it if you say you didn't spend that much time on Torchlight 2 in the end.

When I think of Diablo 3 at this point, I kind of want to go and play it again, because of the aforementioned reasons and the new patch. But I keep remembering things that I don't like, like the feeling of everywhere not being random enough, and the fact that it didn't really feel as "diablo" as it should in theme. And the fact that the maps felt claustrophobic. And the fact that personally I'd have a hard time going back to it without the expansion that's coming, and that there's no way I'm buying that until a much lower price.

But much of this might not apply to you if you don't come in with any expectations.
 
I liked Diablo 2 more, like most, but I don't regret buying Diablo 3. It's a good game and imo worth playing coop. Not sure if I'd go through it alone. I've tried Path of Exile half an hour or so. Don't think I'll be going back even if it's a better game. Torchlight 2 feels generic for some reason and doesn't get me interested at all.

I like the quality of Diablo 3. Blizzard is very good at paying attention to little details. They may get the larger things wrong sometimes, though.
 
Well, have you ever played a game in the genre that you felt was compelling then? 'Cause if neither Path of Exile or Torchlight 2 grab your attention much, I don't see how Diablo 3's gonna be better.

The animation style of torchlight games makes it difficult for me to see what is going on. It feels extremely cluttered and it's super easy, even on high difficulties. They're good games, they just don't grab me and make me play them for hours on end. I do have about 30 hours on torchight 1 cus I found the loot cool at first, but then I realized I didn't need any upgrades to kill everything in sight and lost interest lol.

Path of Exile felt chaotic. All the sudden I was trying to kill some giant undead thing and getting my butt kicked and had to use a bunch of potions, yet there was never any explanation of said potions. I think maybe if it had a tutorial mission or something it might have been better. And then all the sudden I was in a town with tons of other people but didn't know how or if I should chat with them. I wasn't quite sure what to do I guess, I was expecting a single player game that turned into an mmo later.

For some reason darkspore really pulled me in. I love the game's loot system and class system. It's a real shame technical issues killed it and it had a real lack of story and level variety.
 
Diablo 3 is half off for a couple days. Should I get it? $20 is a lot to spend on a game when my backlog is so huge but it's blizzard, not really expecting cheaper.

NO, Why dont you send me $20 and then punch yourself in the groin a few times instead? If you really want to play I'll lend you my Blizzard account and you can share me your steam library, Also NO BACKSIES :lol:

At most you will get enjoyment from playing the single player once, play drop in with others. Then it goes downhill from there.
 
Diablo 3 is half off for a couple days. Should I get it? $20 is a lot to spend on a game when my backlog is so huge but it's blizzard, not really expecting cheaper.
Well, if you neither want Torchlight 2, Diablo 2 + LOD or play Path of Exile for free: YES

Otherwise: NO
 
The animation style of torchlight games makes it difficult for me to see what is going on. It feels extremely cluttered and it's super easy, even on high difficulties. They're good games, they just don't grab me and make me play them for hours on end. I do have about 30 hours on torchight 1 cus I found the loot cool at first, but then I realized I didn't need any upgrades to kill everything in sight and lost interest lol.

I was just discussing something similar with a friend re Diablo III - the new patch, in which you always get better and better loot consistently as you go, gives you a lot more 'upgrades', but as you mention for T2 you don't need more than fairly basic, non-optimised gear to beat any monster up to at least Master difficulty, so you rapidly lose interest in getting anything better if your interest - like mine - is in getting gear for practical reasons rather than to kill things you can kill anyway but more quickly.

Path of Exile felt chaotic. All the sudden I was trying to kill some giant undead thing and getting my butt kicked and had to use a bunch of potions, yet there was never any explanation of said potions. I think maybe if it had a tutorial mission or something it might have been better. And then all the sudden I was in a town with tons of other people but didn't know how or if I should chat with them. I wasn't quite sure what to do I guess, I was expecting a single player game that turned into an mmo later.

As I say, my game crashed (I think just after the giant undead thing you mention - the potions are intuitive if you've played D2 (which it clones, including the same colour-coding, and which had a plethora of pointless potions), but I can see it going in that direction. From the start it seems to want to force online interaction, which is a turn-off for me.
 
Diablo 3 is half off for a couple days. Should I get it? $20 is a lot to spend on a game when my backlog is so huge but it's blizzard, not really expecting cheaper.

I enjoyed D3 for about 4 months, which IMHO was worth the investment considering there is not subscription or anything. 20$ is not bad, but from what the Reaper of Souls expansion seems to add, it seems the randomization and death of the auction house would increase D3's lifespan. At this point I would not purchase D3 unless you plan to get the expansion at the same time. Then the price is 60$ in total, which is too rich for me. You may want to wait until the expansion goes down to at least 20$. Might take 6 months.

Like many games, it takes a few expansions to make them really good. Think any of the civ instalments, but also D2. Everyone raves how D3 sucks compared to D2, but D2 is now in v10 and D3 is just starting v2.
 
As I say, my game crashed (I think just after the giant undead thing you mention - the potions are intuitive if you've played D2 (which it clones, including the same colour-coding, and which had a plethora of pointless potions), but I can see it going in that direction. From the start it seems to want to force online interaction, which is a turn-off for me.

That's a better description than mine, it forces online interaction. I felt immersed in an mmo vs a dungeon crawler with party option. I may try it again sometime but for now not that interested.

I did get diablo 3. Played it for about an hour before the walking dead was on. It does play a lot like torchlight 2 but I like the interface better. I can't really explain why. It seems less frantic. Voiced quests is also a good feature so far. In modern rpgs I hate reading everything now. I fired up torchlight 2 again after just to see what I disliked about it. And it really is the pace and animation style. It's clustered and messy. I can't really explain it better than that, but something about it gives me a headache. Maybe diablo will be like that after a few levels who knows, but for now I like the pace better.
 
Everything in Path of Exile can be understood with the power of "hovering your mouse over the object and reading".

Personally, I turn off the chat. It feels like a singleplayer game where I see random people run around in town.
 
Also there's a new one in early access on steam, Mighty Quest for Epic Loot. It's by ubisoft. It's FTP as well, I read one review here: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-mighty-quest-for-epic-loot-open-beta-review/1100-6418382/

It looks even more like torchlight with the animation style, but it sounds interesting to say the least- you actually build your own dungeon as like a home base and raid other people's dungeon designs. A novel concept at least, who knows if in practicality it works, but I will probably try this game at some point. Seems like every major developer is set on having a moba and a dungeon crawler out now.
 
That's a better description than mine, it forces online interaction. I felt immersed in an mmo vs a dungeon crawler with party option. I may try it again sometime but for now not that interested.

I did get diablo 3. Played it for about an hour before the walking dead was on. It does play a lot like torchlight 2 but I like the interface better. I can't really explain why. It seems less frantic. Voiced quests is also a good feature so far. In modern rpgs I hate reading everything now. I fired up torchlight 2 again after just to see what I disliked about it. And it really is the pace and animation style. It's clustered and messy. I can't really explain it better than that, but something about it gives me a headache. Maybe diablo will be like that after a few levels who knows, but for now I like the pace better.

That's a pretty good description of Torchlight 2, actually...

Diablo's had full voice acting along with the quest text at least since D2 - I do find the giant text boxes that accompany it in D2 and most clones (such as Path of Exile) offputting now, though.

It looks even more like torchlight with the animation style, but it sounds interesting to say the least- you actually build your own dungeon as like a home base and raid other people's dungeon designs. A novel concept at least, who knows if in practicality it works, but I will probably try this game at some point. Seems like every major developer is set on having a moba and a dungeon crawler out now.

Not altogether novel - look up an old Bullfrog game called Dungeon Keeper. Though that was single-player, with the heroes as the 'monsters' you, as the put-upon and much-suffering evil overlord, had to endure.

Back to D3 and its assorted clones, I think you have to be overly nostalgic or have a particular bias against Diablo III to say anything other than "it's a better game than Torchlight/Path of Exile" - more polished, better production values, better interface, better skill and difficulty scaling, better monster designs, better narrative progression (though still essentially nonsensical - there's no reason at all for Belial or Asmodan to stick around while losing instead of going back to the Hells they came from) - one of the Torchlight turnoffs for me was the fact that most quests seemed to be rather disconnected, MMO-style "since you're passing through, could you please rescue my cat? Only it's been stolen by a dragon" deals... The question then becomes "Is it better by enough to justify the difference in cost?" For most players who aren't avowed fans of the Diablo series or of Blizzard, the answer will probably be "no".
 
[...]Back to D3 and its assorted clones, I think you have to be overly nostalgic or have a particular bias against Diablo III to say anything other than "it's a better game than Torchlight/Path of Exile" - more polished, better production values, better interface, better skill and difficulty scaling, better monster designs, better narrative progression (though still essentially nonsensical - there's no reason at all for Belial or Asmodan to stick around while losing instead of going back to the Hells they came from) - one of the Torchlight turnoffs for me was the fact that most quests seemed to be rather disconnected, MMO-style "since you're passing through, could you please rescue my cat? Only it's been stolen by a dragon" deals... The question then becomes "Is it better by enough to justify the difference in cost?" For most players who aren't avowed fans of the Diablo series or of Blizzard, the answer will probably be "no".

Thanks to this thread, I fired up Diablo III again to see how the "new" game played (level scaling, better loot, etc.).

Before the update, Diablo III was rubbish. Item progression outside of the auction house (i.e. loot) was broken in so many ways. After the update, I find item progression to be fine (on normal difficulty, at least), but the level scaling makes for a completely different gaming experience. It's so radically different from before the update, that it simply plays as a totally different game. If the "original" Diablo III was a good game, I would have felt screwed over by Blizzard, because the game I bought is no more. It wasn't a good game, though, so I guess I don't care.

Is the "new" Diablo III a good game? Not particularly, but I guess it's a huge improvement anyway--which unfortunately doesn't say much. Diablo III is still a boring an uninspired game :(

That's also the main reason why I see no justification in saying "it's a better game than Torchlight/Path of Exile". Hell no! Sure, Blizzard has produced a more polished game, with superior narrative presentation and overall production values (I'm inclined to think the sound design superior as well), but those things don't make a good game.

Although I've probably put far more than 200 hours into the Torchlight series, I find it particularly difficult to grasp. The art style is alien and the skill progression limiting. The difficulty is wonky and the game feels soulless and ultimately pointless to me. Still, I had as much fun (if not more) with Torchlight as I did with Diablo III, and Torchlight's story doesn't make me cringe. (I should note that Covetus Shen is a brilliant exception in Diablo III.)

Path of Exile, on the other hand, is a great game! The recent posts in this thread also suggest that it's a misunderstood game. I play exclusively solo (hardcore), and in no way am I forced into any kind of multiplayer play or interaction. I've had no crashes or technical issues since the game was officially released.

The main attractions in Path of Exile are the skills (active), the hilariously huge skill tree (passive), and the itemization. Granted, this leaves the learning curve rather steep, but if you're a fan of Diablo II style ARPGs, then it's all worth it. Passive skills, active skills, and items all potentially synergize, and this makes character development extremely flexible and potent--regardless of preferred playing style. None of this is really present in Diablo III and the Torchlight series. On top of this, combat is visceral and the difficulty scales well.

To be fair, I think comparing Diablo III and Path of Exile is very difficult, because they are very different games. Diablo III is a simplistic action game with linear item progression across all classes, and doesn't require much investment from the player; Path of Exile has complex variety, no distinct classes, no real short term rewards, and a significant player investment requirement.

Spoiler Diablo III ending :
Am I the only one disappointed that we didn't get to fight the spawn of Hell in Hell itself? Oh no, we have to fight the mighty Lord of Terror in (boring!) Heaven. And in the final battle, the Lord of Terror, Diablo, turns out to be... a girl?!? For a Diablo game that is just so wrong!
 
Thanks to this thread, I fired up Diablo III again to see how the "new" game played (level scaling, better loot, etc.).

Before the update, Diablo III was rubbish. Item progression outside of the auction house (i.e. loot) was broken in so many ways. After the update, I find item progression to be fine (on normal difficulty, at least), but the level scaling makes for a completely different gaming experience. It's so radically different from before the update, that it simply plays as a totally different game. If the "original" Diablo III was a good game, I would have felt screwed over by Blizzard, because the game I bought is no more. It wasn't a good game, though, so I guess I don't care.

Is the "new" Diablo III a good game? Not particularly, but I guess it's a huge improvement anyway--which unfortunately doesn't say much. Diablo III is still a boring an uninspired game :(

That's also the main reason why I see no justification in saying "it's a better game than Torchlight/Path of Exile". Hell no! Sure, Blizzard has produced a more polished game, with superior narrative presentation and overall production values (I'm inclined to think the sound design superior as well), but those things don't make a good game.

For a game like Diablo, they pretty much do. It's not a game where you can discuss depth, strategic diversity or tactics. It's a game whose job is to be pretty, user-friendly, and with interesting enough loot, and with enough challenge to the monsters, to get people running through dungeons pressing the same buttons repeatedly. Gameplay in any game of this genre is almost non-existent - it's all about production values. Replaying D2, the only substantive way in which that differ, and that adds any semblance of depth, s is that it gives you a meaningful choice between levelling up existing skills and selecting new ones (and yes, I do miss that from D3).

Path of Exile, on the other hand, is a great game! The recent posts in this thread also suggest that it's a misunderstood game. I play exclusively solo (hardcore), and in no way am I forced into any kind of multiplayer play or interaction. I've had no crashes or technical issues since the game was officially released.

Well, as I noted I didn't get far into it before it went down - I'd certainly rate it well above Torchlight, and the item system is the one innovation I've seen in a game like this that beats the Diablo system (while Torchlight's trademark gimmick - the pets - just seem a juvenile sop to the MMO crowd). The active/passive skill thing is there in D3 but balanced more towards active than passive skills - post-update there does seem somewhat more interaction between the two, rather than passive skills mainly being free bonuses you get regardless of your active skill selections.
 
Well I decided to give torchlight 2 another chance and am actually enjoying it quite a bit now. Once my ember mage got into the teens and had some variety in spells available it became quite fun. At first all I could do was magma spear people to death but now I have pools of flame and the flame pillars and other fun destructive stuff. Also getting out of the starting zones helped as those all seem really bland generic fantasy stuff. I'm enjoying the ossean wastes desert zone. So maybe it's not as bad as I thought. It certainly seems head and shoulders above torchlight 1 now.
 
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