Thoughts on the state of the game since New Frontier Pass

Nikolai II

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I guess to me my own personal barometer has been when I realized that most of the fun/best CIV VI games I ever had were the ones that took place BEFORE the NFP Pass. I can't quite put my finger on why this is the case, but it just is.

I think the Game Modes were (mostly) a good idea, it's just the implementation was poor or they were ruined by bugs (esp. the Monopoly mode). I almost wonder sometimes if the Monopoly mode was a test run for some kind of "economic victory" condition for CIV VII (though that's probably just hopeful projection on my part).
I've also played a lot less of Civ6 after NFP, but I place that on fatigue after like seven plus years of the game.
 

AntSou

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The base game is like a cake. Rise and Fall, and Gathering Storm are like the icing on the cake. NFP and this pack are like the sprinkles on top of the icing.

Now more sprinkles are fine if the underlying cake is good. I certainly wouldn't say the underlying cake is terrible (I've played 670 hours vs 240 of Civ V) but it's a bit stale so adding more sprinkles is not going help at this stage. There are things i would like to see improved in the base game but I don't think they are ever going to happen so I would rather we get Civ VII

More like: the base game was a not thoroughly cooked cake, the patches were extra time in the oven, Rise and Fall was the icing but it couldn't cover the entire cake so you had to go make some more, GS is the rest of the icing, NFP are like the sprinkles only some of them are actually chili flakes, and the LP is your gluttonous mind going "what if I add yet another layer of chocolate?" but then you slip and smash your skull into the cake and pass out and suddenly you're back in 2016.

(unfortunately I can't make the analogy work past the time travel)
 

Zaarin

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More like: the base game was a not thoroughly cooked cake, the patches were extra time in the oven, Rise and Fall was the icing but it couldn't cover the entire cake so you had to go make some more, GS is the rest of the icing, NFP are like the sprinkles only some of them are actually chili flakes, and the LP is your gluttonous mind going "what if I add yet another layer of chocolate?" but then you slip and smash your skull into the cake and pass out and suddenly you're back in 2016.

(unfortunately I can't make the analogy work past the time travel)
Chili flakes could potentially be delicious on a cake; some of the sprinkles are actually little colored pieces of plastic and wax. :p
 

Bechhold

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The fact that this game hasn't received any bug fixes for over a year pretty much means that Firaxis is now fully focused on Civ 7, I mean the AI still doesn't improve luxuries with Corporate mode on despite being over a year old DLC at this point. There weren't even bug fixes in the Leader Pass release and no one expects the new bugs that were introduced with this update to be fixed.

The Leader Pass was due to either A.) Firaxis missed a milestone in the development of Civ 7 which means the game is going to be delayed. Or B.) Said development has been restarted.
 

Zaarin

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The Leader Pass was due to either A.) Firaxis missed a milestone in the development of Civ 7 which means the game is going to be delayed. Or B.) Said development has been restarted.
Or C.) it's being made by a B-team that has no bearing on Civ7's development. I see LP as an attempt to garner some goodwill ahead of Civ7's announcement. It makes sense after NFP's reception was mixed at best. Of course, bug fixing would have garnered more goodwill, especially with the rocky release, but they probably have more artists to spare than programmers.
 

Bechhold

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Or C.) it's being made by a B-team that has no bearing on Civ7's development. I see LP as an attempt to garner some goodwill ahead of Civ7's announcement. It makes sense after NFP's reception was mixed at best. Of course, bug fixing would have garnered more goodwill, especially with the rocky release, but they probably have more artists to spare than programmers.
True it's possible that in March when the last pack is released we get a Civ 7 preview.

The B team was obvious when the LP preview was shown. Even the Civ subreddit was unimpressed.
 
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Of course, bug fixing would have garnered more goodwill
Depends on the audience though. Casual gamers are going to be more thrilled at new leaders than bug fixes I imagine, with the opposite being true on this forum.
 

Zaarin

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Depends on the audience though. Casual gamers are going to be more thrilled at new leaders than bug fixes I imagine, with the opposite being true on this forum.
Maybe not so much after how the pass launched. You'd swear it was the end of the world the way some reacted. :crazyeye: I get what you're saying, but with the pass free to the game's most dedicated supporters I feel like Civfanatics and the like is more their target audience for once than the general player base. (To clarify, the target audience for the goodwill campaign.)
 
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Maybe not so much after how the pass launched. You'd swear it was the end of the world the way some reacted. :crazyeye:
I'm always amazed, but shouldn't be, by how irrationally angry people get about stuff like that. Its free! You didn't have to pay for it.

I get what you're saying, but with the pass free to the game's most dedicated supporters I feel like Civfanatics and the like is more their target audience for once than the general player base. (To clarify, the target audience for the goodwill campaign.)
Maybe but, and I'll be honest, Firaxis messaging just straight up confuses me sometimes to the point I'm not just they're sure they know what they are doing. The messaging at the end of the NFP was so confused (Last update of the Season! No! Last Civ6 update!) and the rollout of the LP being so amateurish that I'm not sure you can really guess what their intent is because it really feels like they don't know what it is.
 

Zaarin

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Maybe but, and I'll be honest, Firaxis messaging just straight up confuses me sometimes to the point I'm not just they're sure they know what they are doing. The messaging at the end of the NFP was so confused (Last update of the Season! No! Last Civ6 update!) and the rollout of the LP being so amateurish that I'm not sure you can really guess what their intent is because it really feels like they don't know what it is.
Good point.
 

AntSou

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Depends on the audience though. Casual gamers are going to be more thrilled at new leaders than bug fixes I imagine, with the opposite being true on this forum.
I don't know where those so called casual gamers are anymore though. Reddit, Twitter and Youtube has a lot of people complaining.

Plus, console gamers are probably in the casual category, and they don't look too happy. They consistently complain about the bugs too, and now they're fuming because they don't even have access to the Pass.
 
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I don't know where those so called casual gamers are anymore though. Reddit, Twitter and Youtube has a lot of people complaining.
I mean, it depends on how you define casual. Is it how much you play the game or how much you interact with it on the internet? Not everyone who plays the game posts on the internet about it so there are going to be a lot of opinions that aren't going to be heard. There is also the the issue with the very poor rollout that could be effecting peoples opinions right now that might not be true by the end of the pass.

Plus, console gamers are probably in the casual category, and they don't look too happy.
I doubt that what platform you play the game on really matters to the casual/non-casual player split. I spent over 1,500 hours playing the game on PS4 and another couple hundred on Switch, not casual by any definition.
 
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AntSou

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I doubt that what platform you play the game on really matters to the casual/non-casual player split. I spent over 1,500 hours playing the game on PS4 and another couple hundred on Switch, not casual by any definition.
Exclusively? Or do you play PC and also Console? Because that would put you in the extra-uncasual category :p

I think it is related, at least somewhat. It's the first main title on console, and there's a big audience of people who simply do not play games on PC, meaning this would be their first title.

Furthermore, a lot of players coming from Civ 4 and Civ 5 are likely to find the complete lack of access to mods on console very limiting.

My point is that a good portion of console players may be new to the series, and therefore less emotionally committed to it, so casual, in that sense.
 

kaspergm

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I agree with many of your overall points. Particularly that the lack of attention to detail as well as (and this may be my own concern here and not something that's actually in your OP) the lack of overall coherent vision for the game does raise concern for Civ7. I still hope they will learn from the mistakes of Civ6 when it comes to designing Civ7, however.

It's a bit ironic given that I have myself frequently argued that I felt Civ5 would have benefited from another expansion, but I think a major problem with the way they have designed - or rather, evolved - Civ6 seems to be under the philosophy that "more is more". They just keep piling more and more content onto the game, without - it seems to me - much thought to how each new element actually adds to the gameplay, and much less thought given to how the new elements interact with the existing elements of the game (which in most cases ends up being: Not at all). The philosophy behind the current pass seems to be that "more leaders inherently makes the game more fun" - something I don't agree with, albeit I acknowledge I'm probably in the clear minority on that question.

I appreciate the generosity of them giving the pass for free, but I'll take the somewhat spoiled stance that I would rather have paid for something that added actual quality content to the game - and fixed all those damn bugs - than have these empty 3D shells that don't add any new gameplay for free.
 

WorldWarIV

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I've never had this many freezes and crashes before. I'm not sure what is going here, but I'm really tired of rebooting the game. It seems very hard to have a strategy game that is complete and fine-tuned at the end of its life cycle these days.
 
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I'm agreeing with @kaspergm and @pokiehl about the general lack of polish and attention to detail here. It's disappointing to see. Not only does the team seem out of their depth (they feel like a B team or interns, as @Zaarin and others have pointed out), but with the LP things seem... kinda rushed? At the very least, inconsistent.

I'm rooting for you Civ VI guys at Firaxis. I have no authority here and no good insight into your situation, but do the best with what you're given. All of these leaders is a BIG challenge, and- regardless of the final product- the fact that we'll get said product in this timeframe is impressive on its own. Modders, as always, will be there to clean things up to the best of their ability (I've already subscribed to the one that replaces the official Negotiator leader icons).

And, hopefully, in mods like Civilizations Expanded, we'll get some more interesting abilities for these new guys (thank you so much @pokiehl, @sukritact, @Leugi :D, and the other team members who don't have CivFanatics accounts lol. That mod is the only thing that makes me want to play some of Civ VI's leaders.)

I'm not super affected personally by the bugs, but they deserve to be patched and I do have strong hope that we'll get at least some of them addressed. I get the sense the people on board might not have time to deal with them yet, but maybe, once the pass is done, we'll get the much anticipated big, final patch to fix things? :mischief:
 
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Exclusively? Or do you play PC and also Console?
PC nowadays. I got a gaming PC a couple of years ago and picked up Civ6 a week or two ago since the console versions still have a lot of crashing issues. Honestly, I would not by Civ7 on console if it was ported by Aspyr and, hopefully, it looks like Firaxis will be a little more careful about the next time the port the franchise to consoles. Hopefully they'll do it themselves since they do make console games.

My point is that a good portion of console players may be new to the series, and therefore less emotionally committed to it, so casual, in that sense.
I mean, I've bought the game on three different platforms (twice on sale, at least!) so, again, I don't think that people on consoles are inherently less committed than PC players.
 

Pfeffersack

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I'm not super affected personally by the bugs, but they deserve to be patched and I do have strong hope that we'll get at least some of them addressed. I get the sense the people on board might not have time to deal with them yet, but maybe, once the pass is done, we'll get the much anticipated big, final patch to fix things? :mischief:
Not impossible that a final patch is happening afterwards, but unlikely in my book. I agree that Firaxis isn't making the decisions what they can do in terms of ressources, but not using the DLC releases for patching as well seems like a waste to me - a waste which the one making decisions is willing to cause. Each release - be it DLC or patch - causes (technical) work for the release itself, which is common argument against frequent or more "official patches" (using beta-versions is a different approach, but Civ never went that way), so why not use each leader release as platform for some fixes as well? Another advantage of this is that feedback can be used in the next release to correct what perhaps went wrong, not talking of the positive PR on terms of caring for the game and listening to community feedback directly. NFP showed that direction. Maybe patching wil start with the next release or there will be indeed the final patch you mentioned afterwards...I try to hope it...but honestly, currently that hope is close to zero.
 

aieeegrunt

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Fireaxis Civ is basically a Bethesda situation.

It’s the same shoddy workmanship and complete lack of QA, but if you have a good modding environment the game suddenly has a LOT of potential

So I’d only get Civ7 if it’s on Steam, it’s mod friendly, and I’ll probably wait till there is some sort of anthology

I will say that the console and iPhone ports work way way better than I had any reason to expect, since I somehow never get all the crashes and stuff.
 
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