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Three best Ancient/Classical Era Wonders?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by MerchantCo, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. Glexarn

    Glexarn Chieftain

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    This is a slightly more difficult question than it initially seems.

    I'd say regardless of start and plans, the best two wonders in these two eras are National College > Great Library. Maybe NC doesn't count because it's a national wonder, but it's so good I think it should count <_<

    It starts to break down past this.

    Colossus? Only available on coastal, and often useless for most of the game on Pangaea, but really really good on water-centric maps. Downside is it's on an awful position in the tech tree and on a tech that just makes no sense at all (seriously? a water-centric peaceful wonder on a tech which only benefits land warfare?). Bonus points if you're Venice since it's 2 trade routes. Stupid points if you're Venice since you just rushed iron working as Venice.

    Petra? Not even available with most starts, and to some desert layouts it's not very good anyway (flat deserts it's nearly trash except for the bonus trade route - plains tiles are meh and you just built a wonder that gave you a bunch of plains tiles), but with the right desert (lots of river desert hills and maybe desert hill luxuries) it's easily better than even Great Library. Bonus points if you're Venice since it's 2 trade routes.

    Stonehenge? Guarantees you a religion in nearly every circumstance... but depending on your plan (it's only useful if you care about getting a religion) and your surroundings (desert folklore/tears of the gods/goddess of festivals/stone circles/religious idols) it can be a waste of your time.

    Hanging Gardens? Tradition only, but if you're going tall it's pretty good (and even better if you're going cultural). Deity AI will beat you to it every single time, so I haven't been able to play with it.

    Temple of Artemis? I guess it's technically good. I dunno, it's never amazed me and I feel like it's a waste a lot of the time.

    Great Lighthouse.. it's pretty nice on water maps, and it gives you a 75 hammer building you were gonna build anyway for free, cutting net hammer cost down to 110. But if you're going naval domination, which is the only reason to build it, why build Great Lighthouse when you can just wait for someone else to inevitably build it then go kill them and take their stuff? Especially when naval domination requires a lot of tech to get up and running! Barring Byzantium, you don't even get your first ranged ship until T120+ unless you skip education (wtf) or have a really fast education time (which you won't because you rushed Great Lighthouse).

    Statue of Zeus: mediocre. You're a warmonger if you want this, so find the dude who built it and go take his stuff. Easy enough.

    Great Wall is not so great. It can be handy if you have mostly or only open terrain around you and you're surrounded by warmongers, but you're better off making more units with your hammers instead of building the Great Wall. Additionally marginalizing Great Wall is the fact that Construction is required for it.. which means you have Composites.. which means it's completely unnecessary. (If horse units are the problem, you should've teched Bronze Working instead of Engineering)

    Parthenon, I dunno. I haven't really thought about it nor built it, since Deity AI always gets it before you unless you do something stupid like skip the National College. It's not worthless, I guess, but why waste your time?

    Pyramids are incredibly efficient in terms of hammers because the 2 workers normally cost 140, leaving it at a net 45 cost. The passive ability does neat things when stacked with Citizenship, like making repairs take only 1 turn. Only applicable to liberty starts, though.

    Oracle is pretty nice, but I rarely build it. It comes at an awkward time because it's on the same tech as National College. It's definitely one of the better wonders in the list, though!

    edit:
    Two of those very much not Ancient/Classical like the thread title asks.
     
  2. evilcat

    evilcat Warlord

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    Hanging Gardens - since growth is good, moreover it is not just growth but food, which means that we can slot more specialist. Profit. Also we get free garden, even if we shouldnt :).

    Oracle - AI dont love it, while it allows some dipping into Patronage (always nice).

    Colossus - despite being in weird place in tech tree bonus trade route is priceless, as long as you are in right spot.
     
  3. orikos

    orikos Praetorian from Orikosia

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    1. Terracotta Army (BNW)- I built this wonder twice and I never had a problem with GPT
    2. Great Library- 1 free technology is very helpful. 2 slots of writing is helpful especially in cultural victory.
    3. Pyramids/ Petra- It depends on where I started. If I started near desert tiles (rarely), I prefer Petra. If I started near luxury resources (very often), I prefer the Pyramids.
     
  4. jahsoldier

    jahsoldier Warlord

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    Aug 11, 2008
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    Surprised not to see more love for the Pyramids. 2 free workers and extra improvement speed can be a really powerful boost that early in the game if you're rapid expanding. Plus the AI always seems to ignore it so you can pretty reliably get it even on higher difficulties.

    EDIT - just saw Glexarn's posts about hammer costs, never even thought of it that way. Guess that's why I'm not a deity player :) Still, it's got the small culture boost, great engineer points and just the fact that it's a wonder (so synergises with some religion choices etc later in the game) in its favour, I'd rather get it instead of just building 2 workers.
     
  5. paulcarri

    paulcarri Prince

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    I havent gone above emp yet, so get a wonder if i specifically aim for it every time.

    I love oracle, but it comes at a time when i cant use it to open the tree i want! Every time i have to use it to open a tree i am not after.

    For me the most dramatic was petra

    I had 4 desert hills, 1 desert gems hill, 2 desert sheep

    I got desert folklore and petra and it was a bit...broken really

    So id say petra top.

    after that im unsure because i dont build a massive amount of early wonders
     
  6. vibe96

    vibe96 Warlord

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    My list: (not in order, [GandK])

    The oracle: The free policy doesn't increase costs so it's a lot better than terracotta army. If you're high on culture, you can speed up your second tree, otherwise you can beeline acoustics or astronomy and use it to open rationalism. The AI doesn't like this for some reason.

    Mausoleum: I always build this if i have at least 2 quarries in my capital. It's easy to get and scales well with the stone circles pantheon.

    Petra: Can turn a useless desert city into a medicore plains city, or make a hilly region with recources into a true powerhouse. very situational but pretty easy to get also
     
  7. Catan_Settler

    Catan_Settler Prince

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    Hmm best 3 in general terms... well I'd have to pick:

    Great Library
    Oracle
    Mausolleum of Halicarnassus

    Stonehenge is right up there too, but I find it's more situational. IE: must have if you're on some type of religious strategy, useless otherwise. That being said, I usually don't bother with GreatLib or Oracle as they are too risky to pull off in MP. But yeah, no matter what your approach to the game is a free tech or a free social policy are hard to beat. Meanwhile the MoH is probably the best way to get gold flowing in the early game so you can upgrade archers to comp bows and warriors to swords. That is, other than a Stonehenge slingshot to a fast religion with Inititiation Rites.
     
  8. Hoplite191

    Hoplite191 Chieftain

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    The three most important wonders have to be the Hanging Gardens, The Pyramids and the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus.
    The Gardens allow quick population growth. Pyramids help with improvements a lot and the Mausoleum's extra gold is very helpful
     
  9. MerchantCo

    MerchantCo Merchant

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    Hanging Gardens is great.

    My city growth usually stagnates at about 8 pop, but with Hanging Gardens, it'll reach 13/14 easily.
     
  10. Aaron90495

    Aaron90495 King

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    If we're talking absolute best:

    1. Great Library
    2. Petra
    3. Hanging Gardens

    The true power of the GL is the fact that you can have the NC up by ~Turn 55-60 - absolutely impossible in any other circumstance. It just gives such a massive boom to your early science output and makes you catch up in tech so much quicker.
    Petra can be potentially better than GL, but with a typical decent start I'd put it a little below it. Still, it's an amazing wonder.
    HG got a bit of a nerf with internal trade routes, but the free Garden and +6 food is still excellent.

    If we're talking about wonders you can actually GET (Immortal/Deity):

    1. Stonehenge
    2. Temple of Artemis
    3. Oracle

    Stonehenge basically guarantees a religion on any difficulty level, and if you prioritize it you should almost always get it (with a good start) since it usually goes around T40. Plus, it's an early GE point that, if you put off assigning University specialists for 5-10 turns - can net you another medieval/renaissance wonder.
    Temple of Artemis can be better than Stonehenge, but it's a little less reliable and on a slightly worse tech path, so it's lower than The Henge. The extra food is great, though, and it only gets more powerful as the game progresses. That actually may be ToA's biggest weakness - it really doesn't give you much of an immediate boost, something that's incredibly helpful when you start leagues behind the Immortal/Deity AI's.
    Oracle is great and usually obtainable, but WHEN it goes varies tremendously - sometimes it goes at T100-105, while I (earlier today) saw it go at T84 (Deity). Nevertheless, more policies is always good, and Oracle fits the bill while being on THE optimal tech path.
     
  11. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    GL, Petra, Oracle.
     
  12. Vohbo

    Vohbo Warlord

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    Hanging Gardens in BNW is extremely weak and inferior in every conceivable way to both Petra and the Colossus. You can get the full effect of it by making a food traderoute with the free caravan you receive of either.
    In addition, the extra growth isn't even that good since you give up so many turns of production to reach it that could have gone into other things. I think it's the most overrated wonder in the game at this moment.

    Best is obviously: Great Library -> Petra -> Colossus, none of the other wonders come even close.
     
  13. MerchantCo

    MerchantCo Merchant

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    None of the other wonders come even close? Not true! :lol:
     
  14. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    Both of those Wonders are terrain-dependent and come later than HG, as well as being more hammer-intensive themselves. There's a reason Borobodur doesn't make Stonehenge obsolete - it gives the same bonus and then some, but timing is everything. 6 food is much more valuable with smaller, earlier cities than medieval ones, just as 5 faith is a bigger bonus at the start of the game than it is when you hit Theology.

    Moreover there's a reason Petra and the Colossus come with a gold boost for trade as well as a trade unit - are you really going to invest those extra hammers in those two Wonders to get a late Hanging Gardens effect, minus the free Garden (not a bonus to be sniffed at in these days of four GP tracks each getting a bonus from the Garden's boost), since you're wasting their other effects (especially that of the Colossus)?

    I'm confused how you can complain about hammer inefficiency and still claim the Great Library ("if I hurry and spend a lot of hammers, I might just get a tech I would otherwise be able to get from a ruin, and still be behind on beakers!") is the best early Wonder. I've already detailed the flaws in that argument in detail.
     
  15. rondiggity

    rondiggity Chieftain

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    For me it's Petra and Oracle tied for 1st and 2nd, and then Hanging Gardens after that.
     
  16. Catan_Settler

    Catan_Settler Prince

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    See but what about desert folklore + stonehenge? If you want a fast religion, get them both. Basically the right faith pantheon + stonehenge should put you up past 10 faith per turn. Which means you get your prophet in like 10-15 turns. Better still if you can 20 faith, because you'll be enhanced before anyone else founds ensuring you have full choice of beliefs. First pick can be the difference between getting Tithe vs getting Peace Loving, or Itinerant Preachers vs like Reliquary. That's a huge difference.
     
  17. MerchantCo

    MerchantCo Merchant

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    Stonehenge gets you a religion very quickly.
     
  18. ilik

    ilik Chieftain

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    I play vanilla, dudes, so anyway, I think Colossus if you seek wealth and can set up coastal cities, Stonehenge if you want that early game culture boost, The Great Library is a must, ESPECIALLY for science victory, Oracle is really nice too...........but not necessary if you try the culture stack up!
     
  19. digrosz

    digrosz Dirty Frank

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    Even in Vanilla, I would not say the Great Library is necessary for a science victory
     
  20. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Emperor

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    Petra is too situational to be in my top 3.

    So I'd say:

    Temple of Artemis
    Oracle
    Pyramids

    I haven't build the colossus yet but that looks really good too. Definately better than Hanging Gardens because a free cargo ship means more food.
     

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