Three best Ancient/Classical Era Wonders?

[noz3112]

Great Library is now a very good pick for culture victory, but its limitations as a science Wonder are the same as ever - its build time relative to the Library is so long that you will usually get at least as many beakers just by building a library and focusing on food, and you're forced to go for an early tech because the Wonder is taken so quickly if you don't. Which all might be fine, except that you usually want to build this instead of a Library and so if you're beaten to it at the last minute you've actually lost beakers. Its much too early in the game to affect your science ranking significantly to boot. Beeline as Babylon (GS points) or France (theming bonus), otherwise there are definitely better options. Even Korea doesn't need it since the science boost for building the GL is exactly the same as the boost for building a Library.


AI limitations are the key reason the Great Wall is mostly useless. If you can defend, you can do it anyway. If you're in a position where you will lose a city to an AI - i.e. you don't have an army - slightly restricted movement for attackers is not going to give you the time to build one. The GL ability has remained similar through most Civ incarnations, and wasn't designed with Civ V's ranged combat in mind in particular, which makes the reduced mobility around your cities much less relevant anyway.

Of course you can build it to deny it to an AI, but then the AI is worse on defence than it is offensively, so an AI with a Great Wall isn't much less vulnerable than one without.

Interesting point r.e the GL. Not that I'm a great player (started playing on King again since BNW, to avoid regular whoopings), but I've always believed GL was THE most important wonder & beeline it from the word go. Now have to think if this might be why I struggle sometimes.

As for the Great Wall - indeed, think it's worth getting if you're planning an early domination, just to prevent AI getting it, but if your army is good enough by that stage to be thinking domination, you could probably waltz through the Great Wall anyway.

 

[Ninakoru]

GL to philosophy, then NC can net you an absurd amount of bakers by turn 55-60. I think is THE wonder to go, because the importance of science. The problem, as with most ancient and classical wonders, is that you have little options to get them at immortal+, and usually wonders are discarded because of the high risk.

The great wall is annoying for early domination. Is a move one square or attack, and the retreat options are limited. Add some hills near the target city obstructing ranged fire, and you are screwed for early dom. You will have to wait for artillery and/or planes.

 

[tedoll78]

I keep forgetting about the Great Wall when these duscussions come up. I usually get to build it more than half of my games on King/Emperor, and find it especially useful for OCC games. It's almost like an invincibility star for your city that lasts for quite a large portion of the game, giving you plenty of time to get established before the Industrial "festivities" begin..