Thundra and tnt

[MPK]

1: > What will happen if I remove the tnt.pcx file?

I am seeking to get rid of Bonus Grassland and have all the Grassland give 1 shield. I added a shield to Grass in the editor. This worked on non-bonus grassland. I now had a shield. But then the Bonus Grass also gained a shield to raise it to 2 shields. Who needs Mountains... lol.

2: > I wish to remove Tundra from my Game. Tundra is just lifeless and pointless having it if I cant farm it. Yes I can just fix food and shields in the Editor but this is not realistic. I was thinking to replace it with a 'lesser vibrant grass' or a different terrain if there is one. So instead of gaining 2 food as I would from normal grass i would get only 1 food from this. ( The Tundra looks like Snow to me. ) ------ Any ideas? -- (ps: i play CCM.)

Moderator Action: Moved to the main C&C forum as that is where questions belong.

 

[Leaven]

Ok, I can briefly answer those for you:
1> Removing the file will cause one of two things to happen; either you mean removing it from your scenario folder (which the game will simply replace with the default one) or you mean remove it entirely from the game folder, which will cause the game to crash. I doubt either of these will help you. You could replace the file with a blank one to remove the image, but the extra shield effect will remain. I know of no way to deactivate the bonus grassland effect except for using a custom map with none of these tiles placed.

2>You can actually farm tundra if you want to, simply give it an irrigation value in the editor, the game should then use the grassland irrigation image on the tundra tiles when they are irrigated. If that image doesn't suit the terrain you are using, there are many alternates available which should work. As for removing it, this can be done by changing the terrain image files, but it's more work than you might guess. The problem is that the game combines the grassland, plains, desert, and tundra files together from a confusing set of image files which would need to be edited. There is probably something already made out there that does this, but I do not know of one myself.

Hope that helps

 

[MPK]

This post is meant to read 'Tundra and TNT', not "Thundra"... Small keys on the laptop and my Big Fhingers are the problem with my typo errors,,,sorry.

Thanks for the reply Leaven. I am glad I asked and not just rushed in and removed the file. Last thing I need is a 'Game Crash'. I really want to change the whole look of what is suppose to be a 'usable' terrain. Frozen Tundra is not.
Maybe someone has the answer to this. I just don't enough about how the terrains are made or organised. Seems everything is in a Layered system.

(Tundra)
1> ok I don't want either to remove the Tundra file and have it just replaced with the default terrain or have the Game Crash. Replacing the Terrain with a similar Terrain is pointless. I know I can change the settings in the Editor. But it just seems wrong to me. What i am seeking is a patchy or different looking Grass that gives a less productive quantity of food than the normal game Grass does. I guess I don't like the look of the 'Dirty White Sheet' looking Tundra I have now.

2> I guess what I want to do is just replace the current Tundra file with another "terrain" file. I am thinking of maybe replacing the current Tundra file with another Grass Terrain file. - The Tundra in game only has two other terrains next to it. Grass and Coast. = The Tundra file is xtgc (tundra,grass,coast). One of the Grass Terrain files is xggc (grass,grass,coast).

[ Questions ]
- Is it possible to change the name of this alternative 'xggc' into a new 'xtgc'. It will be Grass Terrain in image but still be named 'Tundra'. I am happy to have the show covered Trees (tundra forests)?
- Can I also do the same with irrigation. Use normal irrigation and re-name it irrigation tundra?


TNT.
I guess I will have to read some more on this little problem. How is it that all the diamonds of terrain that display Plains, Desert & Tundra all have a 'shield' and Grass has 2 options?

 

[wuhjah]

Here is the blank tnt that I use. Somewhere, once, I read what each diamond was for. I just prefer nothing at all.

Go for copying an xggc and renaming it xtgc. The files are almost identical if not identical.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Here is the blank tnt that I use. Somewhere, once, I read what each diamond was for. I just prefer nothing at all.

Go for copying an xggc and renaming it xtgc. The files are almost identical if not identical.

I understand what each row is for in the tnt.pcx file.
But I don't know what each column is used for??

 

[wuhjah]

I understand what each row is for in the tnt.pcx file.
But I don't know what each column is used for??

I'm guessing the columns are for variety/randomness.

 

[Leaven]

I'm guessing the columns are for variety/randomness.

Actually I don't think the game uses all the images in that file, I have some in mine I know I've never seen.
To answer the renaming questions, the game will only read the files with the same file names as the original game files, so you can't simply add 'tundra' and ask it to choose that file instead. You can edit a copy of the original file (or a modded one) with an image editer and change what things look like, and then change the name of the terrain in the editer. So you could modify xgtc and add that new grass, then change tundra in the editer to "New Grass" or whatever you name it (maybe Steppe?). Again however, modifying the terrain files with more than on terrain in them can be tricky because of the way they intereact with other terrain types.

 

[Blue Monkey]

imho, replacing the graphics for Tundra is easier than it would be for replacing any other individual terrain, because of the colors. Assuming whoever is doing it has a grasp of the skills involved. (1) Pick the new terrain graphics wanted. (2) create a layered file with the new terrain under the tundra layer. (3) select the tundra part of the txxx and cut it. (4) flatten the image.

"Assuming the skills involved" includes knowing about palettes, how terrain is divided across files, etc. The only reason I say replacing tundra is easier is because in my opinion the white/grey are much easier to isolate than the mix of colors used in the other terrains.

So you could modify xgtc and add that new grass, then change tundra in the editer to "New Grass" or whatever you name it (maybe Steppe?).

Then there is the issue of editing the pedia files ...

 

[wuhjah]

imho, replacing the graphics for Tundra is easier than it would be for replacing any other individual terrain, because of the colors. Assuming whoever is doing it has a grasp of the skills involved. (1) Pick the new terrain graphics wanted. (2) create a layered file with the new terrain under the tundra layer. (3) select the tundra part of the txxx and cut it. (4) flatten the image.

"Assuming the skills involved" includes knowing about palettes, how terrain is divided across files, etc. The only reason I say replacing tundra is easier is because in my opinion the white/grey are much easier to isolate than the mix of colors used in the other terrains.
Then there is the issue of editing the pedia files ...

Additionally, the only reason tundra is easiest to edit is because it only spans one file. All other terrains span mulitiple files e.g. xpgc, xdpc xdpg all having plains.

Again, I looked quickly earlier and the coastal and terrain patterns between xggc and xtgc are the same. You can copy the ggc and rename it tgc and you'll have grass on the poles. Yes, you can have a tundra irrigation file and enable it in the editor.

 

[MPK]

Thanks wuhjah and others. I'll give it a go.

First i will just get the tundra to have a new image...eg- dull grass if I can find one. I will still leave it as 'tundra' in the editor and not even worry about the issue of editing the pedia files ..... maybe I will change these later if need be.. this is a bit of an experiment.

I noticed the tundra files only has coast and grass to match up with... I loaded both xtgc & xggc into gimp and checked them both,,,they seem to have the same patterns...

 

[Vuldacon]

MPK... You can Open the tnt.pcx file and remove the graphics by coloring all tile images to the transparent Magenta color used.

Back Up your original File if you are replacing the original file in game then place the Blank File or if the file is for a scenario or a game you are making, simply place the blank "tnt.pcx" file in the terrain folder for your game.

Here is the one I made and use.

EDIT... I missed that wuhjah has already uploaded a blank tnt file above.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Vuldacon,

Do you know what each column of the tnt file is for? I understand what each row is used for...

Wuhjah says he thinks the columns are for variety / randomness.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Do you know what each column of the tnt file is for? I understand what each row is used for...

Apologize for butting in on a question you specifically asked Vuldacon. Are you referring to the research done by Pounder (posted - for example - in this thread) or by Midnight Piper (here)?

Wish I had known about this when making the bonus wildflowers. I could never figure out why all the slots didn't show. My guess - based on my struggles in creating a tnt - is that the columns are stochastically selected in some kind of relationship to the terrain tile chosen by the game engine.

I guess someone will have to conduct experiments with a tnt that has each slot easily distinguishable. At least the discussions by Pounder, Midnight Piper, et al, point in the right direction.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Apologize for butting in on a question you specifically asked Vuldacon. Are you referring to the research done by Pounder (posted - for example - in this thread) or by Midnight Piper (here)?

Wish I had known about this when making the bonus wildflowers. I could never figure out why all the slots didn't show. My guess - based on my struggles in creating a tnt - is that the columns are stochastically selected in some kind of relationship to the terrain tile chosen by the game engine.

I guess someone will have to conduct experiments with a tnt that has each slot easily distinguishable. At least the discussions by Pounder, Midnight Piper, et al, point in the right direction.

Thanks, the question should have been addressed to everyone. I actually came across your wildflowers file which led me to this question!

I read both of those threads above. And Pounder's Post explains how rows are used...
but I couldn't find any information related to the columns.

So, I guess I will make a file with unique images in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd columns for each row and play around and see if I can determine how/when they are used...I'm testing some other things so I might as well test that too. If I figure out anything meaningful, I'll post something about it.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Be prepared for a lot of testing - you'll need a map with a wide variety of terrain edges to get the possibilities covered.

I look forward to seeing what you discover.

 

[MPK]

Results so far. 'Semi Successful'....... "At least the Game didn't Crash".

tnt > I got rid of the blue icon that shows the bonus Grass. But I really wanted to remove the 'Shield'. ........ I want all all Grass to give 1 shield..that was what I was really after. I gave Grass Terrain in the Editor 1 Shield like all the other terrains have. But still some tiles of Grass have 2 shields. With a Mine bonus Grass gives 3 Shields. This is not what I wanted at all. I changed settings in editor that no extra Shields will be gained by mining Grass to halt this.

Changing the Tundra: > Well the Game loaded and Played.. No Crash . Really all I want is a Terrain that looks like life could exist on it...lol. The Tundra in the game looks like 'snow'.

The game tiles did not blend properly. Maybe 1/4 of the 2 connecting tiles showed a darker shade of green than the original Grass. Also there were dark Blue Diamonds, like shadows on the map. Also a few Dark Green ones. Maybe using a Grass from a different creator was problem. So I deleted all the changes I made to try again.

I did a 2nd attempt using the same Grass Terrain used in the Game. Hoping this would blend together. All Grass and no Tundra is ok. It still looked the same the first attempt. Maybe the Game is using a default terrain file. There was still the Blue and Green Diamonds on the Screen.

I will keep trying. At least the Game played. For me that is ok...Normally I find all the ways to Crash a Game... ps: if i figure out how to post a screen shot,,I will.

 

[wuhjah]

Results so far. 'Semi Successful'....... "At least the Game didn't Crash".

Changing the Tundra: > Well the Game loaded and Played.. No Crash . Really all I want is a Terrain that looks like life could exist on it...lol. The Tundra in the game looks like 'snow'.

The game tiles did not blend properly. Maybe 1/4 of the 2 connecting tiles showed a darker shade of green than the original Grass. Also there were dark Blue Diamonds, like shadows on the map. Also a few Dark Green ones. Maybe using a Grass from a different creator was problem. So I deleted all the changes I made to try again.

I did a 2nd attempt using the same Grass Terrain used in the Game. Hoping this would blend together. All Grass and no Tundra is ok. It still looked the same the first attempt. Maybe the Game is using a default terrain file. There was still the Blue and Green Diamonds on the Screen.

I will keep trying. At least the Game played. For me that is ok...Normally I find all the ways to Crash a Game... ps: if i figure out how to post a screen shot,,I will.

Your palette index must be wrong if you are seeing diamonds.

It works, at least in the editor. I didn't run the game. You can see in mine, there are some small coastal issues, but it works. I just made a copy of xggc and renamed it xtgc. (renaming my original xtgc to something else...)

 

[Vuldacon]

Vuldacon,

Do you know what each column of the tnt file is for? I understand what each row is used for...

Wuhjah says he thinks the columns are for variety / randomness.

Grey Wolf... Yes, they are for variety.

 

[MPK]

Your palette index must be wrong if you are seeing diamonds.

It works, at least in the editor. I didn't run the game. You can see in mine, there are some small coastal issues, but it works. I just made a copy of xggc and renamed it xtgc. (renaming my original xtgc to something else...)

No I have a completely different Diamond. It is the shade of the Game tile. Same size as the terrain Diamond. It sits in the middle of 4 joining terrain tiles. I have an image but i keep getting told it is to big to upload... ,,,,, but working on this...

I have 3 seperate Terrain folders in my Game. And it says in the Editor/ Scenario Properties/ Scenario Search Folders/ ..\...\...\Sn00pys Terrain\... ... which isn't one of the 3 folders I have.

So I am at a loss to which folder is in Game. I remove 2 of the folders and the Game Played none of them. Just went back to CivIII Terrain.

 

[wuhjah]

No I have a completely different Diamond. It is the shade of the Game tile. Same size as the terrain Diamond. It sits in the middle of 4 joining terrain tiles. I have an image but i keep getting told it is to big to upload... ,,,,, but working on this...

I have 3 seperate Terrain folders in my Game. And it says in the Editor/ Scenario Properties/ Scenario Search Folders/ ..\...\...\Sn00pys Terrain\... ... which isn't one of the 3 folders I have.

So I am at a loss to which folder is in Game. I remove 2 of the folders and the Game Played none of them. Just went back to CivIII Terrain.

? Are you attaching the image using the paperclip? Searching for the file and then uploading through the new window that pops up? Strange is would be too big unless you have some monster of an image. Seeing what you describe would be helpful.

You probably do have Sn00pys Terrain if you have Civ complete with Play the world.
The files would be found somewhere around here:
\CIVIII\civ3PTW\Scenarios

I don't know what mod you're playing with, but generally speaking, if working on something myself, I find it's easiest to start with a new biq and its associated folder structure. You can always import rules and such. You can copy over folders... And then you know everything you've got in there.