Timber as a "finite" resource

[Elite999]

I`m thinking about thinking the timber as a "finite" resource.

What I mean, is why were the british isles chopped out of wood when their empire grew to be the biggest one in history?

Maybe you could get one timber by chopping off forest from one tile, and maybe even two from jungles? (just to make them even more wanted).

This timber then could be used to build something from catapults (romans) to wooden ships (like the british navy was).

Then, when the fertilizer is discovered, you could replant the forests, but not the jungles, and when the ecology is invented, you could replant even the jungles too!

There`s some historical sense to it I think.

 

[Elite999]

Oh, I forgot to mention reason behind "finite", It`s simply this :

When you lose or delete this wooden unit, then you lose the timber resource used by this unit.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

There`s some historical sense to it I think.

There's a LOT of historical sense to it, but it's not just 'any timber'. What we're talking about here is what is now known as 'old growth forest': the tall, straight, massive trunks that can be used for everything from ships' keels and masts, monumental wooden construction, etc.
These were even Trade Goods in several periods of history: the Cedars of Lebanon in the Bronze Age, the Ship Timbers from both Scandinavia and the American Northeast in the 18th century: these commanded high prices from those who had to have them - mostly ship builders from Egypt and Crete to the British Royal Navy.

I think the way to go is to put 'timber' on the map as a resource. It could appear on either Forest or Jungle tiles, one 'Timber' would be required for each construction of a Trebuchet, Frigate, Ship-of-the-Line, Privateer, and could be used to speed up (+10%?) construction of many Wonders: massive timber framing and scaffolding, after all, makes it a lot easier to put up the Colossus statue, or virtually any masonry building (Mausoleum, Hanging Gardens, Great Library, Great Lighthouse, etc - and remember, Stonehenge was originally 'Timberhenge' - they've found the post holes, so Timber could almost be used for any wonder built before the Industrial Age!)

As long as you are 'using' a timber resource, there is a chance it will Deplete - you've chopped 'em all down. They will regrow naturally, but it takes about 100 to 200 years. As you mentioned, in the Information Era and later, with Plant Genetics, Advanced Biology/Botany and the like Technologies, Timber can be regrown much, much faster - Weyerhaeuser in the USA can now regrow stands of softwoods in about 1/3 to 1/4 the time it would take naturally. Of course, by the time you've got those technologies, the original need for Timber resources - ship building - is long gone. Instead, the 'modern' use might be ecological - 'Timber' resource within the city radius could act as a local (State) Park, increasing Happiness...

There is a Mod: Enhanced Resources, I believe is the title, that includes Timber as a resource, from which I took some of this - it's a good start for anyone wanting to add Timber to the 'resource tree' ...

 

[Elite999]

Instead, the 'modern' use might be ecological - 'Timber' resource within the city radius could act as a local (State) Park, increasing Happiness...

There is a Mod: Enhanced Resources, I believe is the title, that includes Timber as a resource, from which I took some of this - it's a good start for anyone wanting to add Timber to the 'resource tree' ...

Yea, but I think I`d use timber to produce paper with a paper mill, which could perhaps produce some gold and maybe a little production. I remember the Civ2 times, I always replaced the silk "resource" with paper on the forests.

I`ve tried these timber-mods (I think it should have it`s own resource image (on the map), I`ve seen two, the other uses coal, and the other spices).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Yea, but I think I`d use timber to produce paper with a paper mill, which could perhaps produce some gold and maybe a little production. I remember the Civ2 times, I always replaced the silk "resource" with paper on the forests.

I`ve tried these timber-mods (I think it should have it`s own resource image (on the map), I`ve seen two, the other uses coal, and the other spices).

The trouble is, 'timber' for paper and the Timber I was discussing are two different things. Paper traditionally is made from 'wood pulp' - which can be almost anything with cellulose in it, including non-woody plants - it's why the bookstore where I worked sold 'rice paper', among other types.

But you do touch on a point. That is that a Forest (or Jungle, for that matter) holds a lot of resources that, depending on the Technologies available, can present all kinds of possibilities for 'Civ' type resource development. The Native Americans 'managed' forests and virtually planted and farmed them (Californians planted oak groves, harvested acorns as their 'bread' crop, the Northeastern American natives burned out undergrowth and planted 'forest gardens' all around their villages, along the Amazon River natives manufactured soil for 'terrace' gardens with high yields)

In the twentieth century, the Scandinavians have turned basic 'wood' into a major art, design, and construction resource, and during WWII some very sophisticated aircraft were built with wood laminates: the British 'Mosquito' light bomber/night fighter/attack aircraft and the Soviet La-5 air superiority fighter come immediately to mind.

We perhaps need some 'enhancing Technologies' or technological effects, or even Buildings or Managed Forest Improvement added to the game. Historically, a 'Forest', even without Ship Timber-type Old Growth trees, is a potential source of Production, Food, Happiness benefits. In the current 'Information Era', planting 'un-touched' Forest or Jungle Tiles might even give you Diplomatic/Trade boosts with other Civs who need 'Carbon Offset' for their industries...

 

[Elite999]

"Rice paper"! First time to hear about such a thing.

Very enlightening, you do seem to know something about resources.

I do know something about planting and farming (nurturing) the forests, as you can see, I`m from Finland, Scandinavia, and we do have a forest-farm here (I do some timberjack stuff during summers).

But, you do have a point too, and that´s a point I´d like to see on all strategic resources : They should be usable after "their time" in some way.

Like iron, made into steel later on (there`s an industrial steel mod).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

"Rice paper"! First time to hear about such a thing.

Yes, apparently you can make paper out of almost any plant - I've seen 'art papers' made from all kinds of grasses plus wheat, rice, barley and other grains. It means that 'Paper' as a distinct resource is a bad idea, because once you have the 'Papermaking' Technology, you can make it out of almost anything...

But, you do have a point too, and that´s a point I´d like to see on all strategic resources : They should be usable after "their time" in some way.

Like iron, made into steel later on (there`s an industrial steel mod).

I've posted elsewhere that I think the division of resources into Strategic, Luxury and so on is Artificial and Restricting. I'd rather have a lot more variety in the use, with the usage changing with Technology.
For instance, Copper is one of the earliest workable Metals, so provides an early luxury. It is also required for Bronze, so is required for Bronze Age units. Much later, massive amounts of Copper are required for electrical wiring in the late Industrial Era to provide electric lights, telegraph, telephones, electrical mass transit (light rail, trolley, subway). So that one 'resource' has Luxury, Strategic, and Production/Happiness consequences.

Iron, the quintessential Military resource for almost every war machine built after the mid-19th century, is also required in Mass Quantities to convert into Steel to build railroads and motorized vehicles - especially freight trucks.

Gold is not only an early and continuous Luxury Resource, it is also one of a few metals (copper and silver being the others) that has been used for Coinage throughout the centuries, so it's required to make Markets and Banks reach their full potential. In the Information Era, it is also a prime component of modern solid-state electronics, one of the modern 'manufactured Luxuries' and a major Trade Good.

In fact, most of the early and traditional 'Luxury Goods' in the game by the late Industrial and Modern Eras should be replaced by Manufactured 'Luxuries' such as Cheap Clothing (one of the first, from the early cloth Mills and factories), Consumer Electronics, Automobiles, Mass Entertainment - most manufactured by turning 'Raw' resources like Iron, Copper, Gold, Aluminum, Dyes, Cotton, Silk, and Wool into 'finished products' - and then selling them to other countries for Trade Gold or to your own people for Happiness or Culture benefits.

The whole resource system should be a lot more flexible and change dramatically as the game goes on with changing technological requirements and possibilities...