Timing the revolt into republic

[Red Horse]

Much has been written about the “Republic slingshot”, however I have not found any discussions regarding the timing of the revolt into the republic. When I have tried this strategy I have found that initially this government would not provide as much gold for research as other govs. Should I stay in despot until republic does provide an economic benefit or should I switch to another gov in the interim?

I would appreciate any insight the civ community could provide regarding the use of this strategy.

 

[Chamnix]

I generally revolt as soon as I can. You can certainly do things like make sure all worked tiles have roads and disband useless units to minimize the pain, but often in the short-term Republic will provide less gold than despotism.

But the reason you want to get out of despotism ASAP is not for the gold - it is for the food. When you're a despot, the vast majority of tiles provide at most 2 food per turn. You may have some food bonuses, but most of your cities can do no better than growth every 10 turns (or every 5 turns if you build granaries everywhere).

Once you are in Republic, you can irrigate regular grassland tiles, and most cities can suddenly reach +4 or +5 food per turn so you are growing every 4-5 turns without a granary. More citizens will lead to more of everything, gold included.

 

[Aabraxan]

Some time ago, I started a thread with the same question. It's here.

 

[AznWarlord]

The best time is while you re settling you last towns and some of your cities are above size 7. Make sure you can support 2 units per city, because if you don't have a standing army of offensive power (which the AI's value more) they'll make demands and declare war on you more often.

That's why Democracy isn't that good, no troop support means undefended cities, no undefended cities means you get into more wars than Republic.

 

[Mursi lives]

Chamnix is perfectly right: unless your territory is 100% plains, the end of food despo penalty is the main factor and will enable you to expand like mad. You can get even faster by gold rushing settlers and workers in your high food/low shields cities . Revolting ASAP also gives you a shorter anarchy period. (Got a 3 turns last time ).
But where to find gold? Simple: turn temporarily your research off. Once you got republic, there is no urgent tech to research and trading republic at the right time will prevent you from falling behind.

should I switch to another gov in the interim?

Usually a bad idea. However, if you are a religious warmonger with a big number of units, switching to monarchy for a while may be an option. After all there is a religious civ with a cheap and very efficient UU.

 

[Tone]

I generally revolt as soon as I can.

Ditto, and for the same reasons. I do try to plan ahead, so I try to have fewer military units, but ones that are more powerful (rather than stacks of reg warriors) and I also make sure that I have plenty of workers for those all-important roads.

 

[Pyrrhos]

Add the extra shield on hills (and mts) if mined to Chamnix' reply and it's clear why the early switch is so beneficial. You might want to build tGL too, if you're going to switch research off, so the extra shields gained in rep are then vital.

 

[darski]

I used to switch as soon as the screen came up that suggested it but I learned to do a little looking around first. If I am about 3 turns from an important build/wonder or an important settler build then I wait those few turns.

 

[anaxagoras]

I used to switch as soon as the screen came up that suggested it but I learned to do a little looking around first. If I am about 3 turns from an important build/wonder or an important settler build then I wait those few turns.

You should NEVER switch when the dialogue suggesting comes up, under any circumstances. That dialogue comes up at the very beginning of the turn, and by switching then, you spend the entire turn in anarchy. Start the revolution at the end of the turn. You'll get "credit" for an anarchy turn, but you will avoid some of the problems. Also, make sure to micromanage all of your cities as soon as you switch and before you end the turn. Maximize food, manage discontent, and be sure to switch any specialists from science to taxes.

On the other end, come OUT of anarchy as soon as the dialogue comes up, and micromanage all of your cities before the inter-turn is over to take advantage of the new government type immediately.

 

[Chamnix]

Could you clarify that a bit? It is one of those things that I keep meaning to learn in detail but never get around to...

Suppose you have 1 turn to go on researching Republic in 1000 BC. You complete it on the interturn, and choose to revolt from the dialogue box. You obviously already received your commerce for that interturn, but you receive no food or shields then. You are saying that counts as a turn of anarchy. That is, you will have one turn of anarchy done and therefore only 1-8 (or whatever it is) additional turns of anarchy starting in 975 BC? But if you revolt via the Domestic Advisor in 975 BC, then you get the 2-9 turns? Do I have that right? If that's right, wouldn't you be better off revolting from the dialogue box because you lose 1 less turn of commerce?

On the back end, in 900 BC, suppose you have 1 turn of anarchy remaining. You hit end turn, and you get the dialogue box to choose a government. You then get food, shields (and commerce?) added to the bins before the 875 BC turn? Is there an option to go to the big picture then, or is it available only if you actually complete a build and zoom to city?

Thanks...

 

[anaxagoras]

Suppose you have 1 turn to go on researching Republic in 1000 BC. You complete it on the interturn, and choose to revolt from the dialogue box. You obviously already received your commerce for that interturn, but you receive no food or shields then. You are saying that counts as a turn of anarchy.

No, I'm saying you get a turn of anarchy either way, but why start it at the beginning of the turn? That's what happens when you accept the dialogue. Play out the turn first, then revolt. This gives you the chance to get all your management tasks accomplished before the anarchy really starts so you can minimize the effects to the extent you can. (Unless you are so good you did all your management the turn before you learned the tech. In which case, why are you reading anything that I write? ) It still counts as the same turn, either way, and by 975 BC you will have one elapsed turn of anarchy whether you revolted at the dialogue or at the end of the 1000 BC turn.

On the back end, in 900 BC, suppose you have 1 turn of anarchy remaining. You hit end turn, and you get the dialogue box to choose a government. You then get food, shields (and commerce?) added to the bins before the 875 BC turn? Is there an option to go to the big picture then, or is it available only if you actually complete a build and zoom to city?

I'm pretty sure it is only when a build completes, but at that point you can go manage all of your cities. Someone please correct me if I got this wrong. In any case, running through the empire as soon as possible can save you from having turns of rebellion and can help you maximize the shield/commerce return from the first turn back.

 

[Bartleby]

I usually revolt from the Big Picture. You can zoom to one city from F1 then scroll through the rest. It seems to me that you don't get production the turn you come out of Anarchy, but I'm prepared to stand corrected on that.

 

[anaxagoras]

It seems to me that you don't get production the turn you come out of Anarchy, but I'm prepared to stand corrected on that.

I thought I recalled being able to manage cities as I came out of the revolution, but perhaps that was just to control unrest and I automatically adjusted everything else at the same time. If anyone can confirm what actually happens, that would be helpful.

 

[DS_Legionary]

As posted here immediately is usually the best option, although having some marketplaces/courthouses up before you switch will definately help keep you from losing alot of gold in the early stages of your new republic. The only exception I can think of would be if you were in a golden age/war. It is usually best to ride either one out. You would lose valuable turns of your GA or could run into war unhappiness as soon as your government is established.

 

[Hasdrubal Barca]

Could you clarify that a bit? It is one of those things that I keep meaning to learn in detail but never get around to...

Suppose you have 1 turn to go on researching Republic in 1000 BC. You complete it on the interturn, and choose to revolt from the dialogue box. You obviously already received your commerce for that interturn, but you receive no food or shields then. You are saying that counts as a turn of anarchy. That is, you will have one turn of anarchy done and therefore only 1-8 (or whatever it is) additional turns of anarchy starting in 975 BC? But if you revolt via the Domestic Advisor in 975 BC, then you get the 2-9 turns? Do I have that right? If that's right, wouldn't you be better off revolting from the dialogue box because you lose 1 less turn of commerce?

On the back end, in 900 BC, suppose you have 1 turn of anarchy remaining. You hit end turn, and you get the dialogue box to choose a government. You then get food, shields (and commerce?) added to the bins before the 875 BC turn? Is there an option to go to the big picture then, or is it available only if you actually complete a build and zoom to city?

Thanks...

Thats is basically the mechanics involved behind the Gold Mine exploit, you use the build dialogue box to enter the city views and by cycling cities in the above arrows you will get gold from last turn "wealth" option queue and shields to the box if you change to a unit, play with it using civl engineers and taxmen and you virtually get +25% +50% to your income, production every other turn.

 

[anaxagoras]

Thats is basically the mechanics involved behind the Gold Mine exploit, you use the build dialogue box to enter the city views and by cycling cities in the above arrows you will get gold from last turn "wealth" option queue and shields to the box if you change to a unit, play with it using civl engineers and taxmen and you virtually get +25% +50% to your income, production every other turn.

Just to clarify, I don't consider it an exploit to change citizen distribution in cities in order to minimize the effects of anarchy. Switching things every turn the way you describe during normal game play I definitely would view as an exploit.