Tips for People Who Hate Civ 4

Darwin420 said:
I've yet to actually complete a game. I'm having too much fun in the Ancient/Classical/Medieval periods learning the tricks of the trade, so to speak.

Heheh, good to see I'm not the only one that starts & abandons lots of game. I think the furthiest I've played one was to the point where I discovered gunpowder. I had planned on playing that one further, but made the mistake of playing on a huge map and when I traded a distant civ for their world map my system started lagging. So no more huge maps for me until I upgrade.

It definately took me a while to unlearn some of my Civ3 habits. I am really starting to enjoy playing with the specialists and the great people and religion and...well you get the idea.
 
denyd said:
1. Be very picky on where to place cities. Look for resources and try to found next to a river. That provides an instant trade route and will allow farming around that city, not to mention the defensive bonus.

I've only started a couple of Noble games after starting (not finishing) the tutorial. I'm not sure if it's okay to stretch to get a resource or if you still need to chain out.

2. Building a settler/worker costs only production time (no population drop), so let the city get bigger before building those units.

If I understand, the health level affects the current growth rate. It seems there should be a sweet spot on where to build the settler with respect to food, health & growth, but then I'm not sure how to figure maintenance into that decision.

3. Specialize cities, one for military units (barracks there) and one for wonders (stone/marble nearby).

I believe marble & stone only have to be on the trade network and not necessarily "near" the building city. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. (Maybe that's why I missed a wonder?)

How important exploration beyond the local area is?

Good question. I've been assuming exploration is very important, but all my activities so far are focused around my cities, and I was able to get open borders to unfog my opponents' areas after Writing. And if my opponents are around my scouts have less barb fighting to worry about. In my current continents game I sent off a galley with a scout, but since I can't enter ocean tiles I think it's a waste of time as I've already unfogged most of what I think is the entire continent.

Sure, I know where lots of iron and copper is, but I'm not expanding that way that fast. Again, I wonder if it's advisable to send a settler to a remote site. So far having one city back another up doesn't seem as crucial in this game.

What the important technologies are.

They all are, I guess. I'm wondering if the "best" strat will be to specialize based on early game conditions (resources, traits, terrain) until Alphabet and then trade for the rest. Fishing and agriculture are easy to skip if you don't have the needed resources, but so far I keep bouncing around to pick up every little worker action, unit and city improvement thinking they'll come in handy. I'm getting the feeling I'm wasting time.

For those unable to get Civ 4 yet, try out Rise & Rule (see Civ 3 mod pack forum) to get a feel for some of the new techs & wonders.

I haven't played RaR, but I've skimmed a few SGs using that mod. While learning cIV I keep thinking the RaR players will be the early strong players because a lot of the new game concepts seem similar to RaR.
 
if you build a religion shrine, always build at least one monastery of this religion so you will be able to spread missionaries even when there won't be monasteries anymore...
In my game i found 6 religion (you know what, i play on settler my first game). I miss three kind of monasteries so i can't spread them anymore....it means there will be less gold from shrine if you don't spread them

just my two cents
 
The techs you really need depend on your playstyle.
- If you're trying to found as many religions as possible, aim for religion techs.
- If you're aiming for a specific wonder, try to get its tech.
- If you're agressive, military techs like Military Tradition are high priority.
- If you're cultural, techs that enable culture buildings
- Going for space, you'll need scientific techs, ones that provide science building, and SS techs.

@LAnkou: Yes, spreading your religion can really help both your income and relations. I just couldn't agree less with your sig :)
 
denyd said:
What I'm still trying to figure out is:

How important exploration beyond the local area is?

You need to explore your local area because you always need to have a plan for where you'll put your next settler. You also should have a plan B and plan C.

But beyond your local area, there's some value to exploring beyond:

- Contact with other civs (vital to stay involved in tech trading)
- Goodie huts (can sometimes give you a free tech -- more often with scouts)
- Making enemy cities visible, so you know exactly who is building what. Instead of "Pyramids were built in a far off land" you'll know "Pyramids were built in Athens" and you need to watch for Greece.

How important is it to make sure your cities form a connected empire.

This isn't too important... until you're at war. Then it becomes really easy for your enemy to isolate a stray city and go to work on it, while the remainder of your empire tries to cross 'no man's land' to get there. You can get away with this sometimes, but don't get carried away.

Other than that, it's important to make sure there's some kind of trade route between your cities. Sailing enables trade routes across coastal tiles -- that helps a lot.

Otherwise, you may need an open borders treaty with that civilization that divides your territory. Stay on good terms with them at all costs.

What the important technologies are.

Whew. You could probably write an entire article per era on what the important technologies are. I've found some strategies that work, but honestly, ALL strategies work -- and all strategies don't work, to a great extent.

I will mention these key technologies though:

Alphabet: You don't have to get this right away, but I like to get it before any of the AI civs do, so I can steer the tech trade in my favor before anyone else gets to it. If you get alphabet and one other expensive tech, you can often trade for all the techs you missed before.

Writing: There are at least three different paths to writing, and writing leads to the alphabet. The way I see it, this suggests that there are at least three viable starting strategies.

Bronzeworking: You don't have to get this right away, but you do have to get them sooner rather than later. If you take too long, you won't be able to find out where a source of copper is. And the AI will capitalize on your weakness, if the barbarians don't do it first. Spearmen are key to take down mounted units, and axemen are both a great offense and great defense.

The sooner you discover bronzeworking, the sooner you might be able to find out that copperis scarce. In which case, ironworking becomes an even higher priority. Don't get caught without metals -- it will be your own damn fault.

Archery: Sometimes you can put this off or ignore it until you get to alphabet. Archery is easier to ignore if you have bronze hooked up early. But you can't ignore it forever.

Every other ancient technology is useful. The key is not getting caught up in getting every single one, because at alphabet you can trade for the ones you missed. There are multiple ways to get to writing-->alphabet, so you need to figure out the one that makes the most sense for you in this particular game. This will depend on your traits, your starting location, your starting techs, and your overall approach. I seldom grab more than 2 or 3 worker techs, and the ones I do grab are different every time depending on what resources are nearby and how early I've built a worker.

Man, you really can speak volumes about tech choices.
 
I should also say that on archipelago, the value of archery and bronzeworking go way down, and sailing becomes vital. The reverse is true of pangea.

You always have to be sensitive to that starting location.
 
Nice article, amazingly no one in the community (or at least the vocal community) didn't miss the sarcasm. I was actually surprised there were no noob accusations, "this advice stinks", "lol u contradicted urself", and etc.

But playing devil's advocate, I have to say that just because a game is new and requires new strategies, it does not necessarily mean it is fair or balanced.
 
Agreed Spec, but as with all new games, these issues will appear as the game and competition level matures. Hopefully Firaxis is open to patching MP balance issues that might arise.
 
One thing I've tried the last couple games is to build a worker first then my barracks. This lets me start laying down my roads, and as I get the techs to exploit my resources, I can capitalize more readily. Further, by the time my baracks is built, I have Archery, and am working on Bronze Working to set my defenses.

If you want to go warmongering, any cities that you want to have building units need Baracks and if you have the tech, forges. Add in Theology and State religion, Police State (if you got the Pyramids, of course) and Vassalage, and you're pumping out units quickly with two promotions on them, and after a couple fights will hit a third promotion. Aggressive Civs get Combat 1 free (on melee and Gunpowder units), so it's like three promotions free and a fourth not far off. This means that your archers to defend new cities can have City defence 2 if you want, or maybe better odds against what you expect to see attacking.

Remember when you attack, you will always see the unit with the best odds against your attack. Don't neglect cover and Shock in those circumstances.
 
More on early exploration after a few hours playing:

Unlike Civ3, when an opponent settles a city in an area that you've explored but is currently dark you don't see it on the map.

So far--playing Noble, continents, standard size and normal speed--I think thorough early exploration is wasteful. I've been doing it, but about the time I've mapped out the whole continent I'm pushing out a galley or I already sent off a work boat to map the coast. I haven't yet had problems getting open borders with civs I meet early, so I just get open borders so my boat can paddle around the continent. Then I realize I can send a fast unit (scout, horse, whatever) through their civ. Unlike earlier civs they won't get in your way; just walk right through their workers, military and cities as you explore their recent additions to the empire.

In my next game I'll systematically unfog the areas where I may reasonably expect to send settlers but send only one or two other explorers (meaning warrior or scout) just to quickly tromp across the continent to meet the enemies and get a rough idea of where the ends of the continent are. I'm not sure you even need to meet the enemies, but it seems like if you meet them earlier your relationship goes up over time just by knowing each other. But again I haven't had trouble getting open borders around galley time even when they think my state religion is hethan.

I just recently got to caravels and made it to another continent in my latest game, and one of the civs allowed open borders, but 2 or 3 others didn't. "We don't like you enough." But I had an Explorer, and I think from the description that it can go into other civ's borders, but I stopped the game before I could verify that. Anyway, if you wait a long time and have a hethan religion you'll get the cold shoulder on new contacts.

EDIT: I was wrong about Explorers...they can't go into other civs' territory without open borders. It's caravels that have the description which makes it sound like they can sail through other civs' territory, but I haven't tested that yet.
 
Puppeteer said:
More on early exploration after a few hours playing:

Unlike Civ3, when an opponent settles a city in an area that you've explored but is currently dark you don't see it on the map.

So far--playing Noble, continents, standard size and normal speed--I think thorough early exploration is wasteful.

Other than that, yeah, not building too many cities is key. I remember being at +6 GPT before my settler built a city, and -15 after that ! That hurts. I was going to loose a lot of money to make that city profitable, money much better spent on keeping a high science rate, for instance.

And really try to make the most out of your traits.

Oh and one last thing : when you are trading resources, you can actually trade resources you have only one of, meaning that YOU WILL LOOSE THAT RESOURCE FOR THE DURATION OF THE TRADE.
I found that the hard way trading my only coal :lol:
 
While anyone that has actually played the game understands this article despite its unusual writing style, it might be better to rephrase it in a "Myth: Fact:" format instead of "Tip #1: (false statement) (true statement)"
 
Puppeteer said:
I believe marble & stone only have to be on the trade network and not necessarily "near" the building city. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. (Maybe that's why I missed a wonder?)
They don't have to be in the "working" radius...but you can't build a quarry outside your cultural borders. :lol:
 
Randle said:
While anyone that has actually played the game understands this article despite its unusual writing style, it might be better to rephrase it in a "Myth: Fact:" format instead of "Tip #1: (false statement) (true statement)"
Excellent note, Puppeteer. :thumbsup:
I agree with the suggestion of Randle. Myth might be better.
 
Mercade said:
Excellent note, Puppeteer. :thumbsup:
I agree with the suggestion of Randle. Myth might be better.

Sometimes, sarcasm is the best way to convey a message. Dh_Epic does it sarcastically but powerfully.
 
denyd said:
2. Building a settler/worker costs only production time (no population drop), so let the city get bigger before building those units.

However, have a look at the "Worker-Chop" strategies in the the main Civ4 strategy forum. Bronze Working + Worker + Forest to be removed apparently can jump start unit and city improvement production.

So, again depending on your starting position, an early worker (not settler) might be a good idea.
 
Lauer: A good technique, but one that needs to be prudently applied. For a city with excess food, those 2 hammers per turn for 100+ turns are much more valuable than a single 30 hammer burst.
 
So, what you're saying is, Civ IV, though it will crash your system, is superior to Civ III, which did not. Gotcha. Thanks for the tip.


Later!

--The Clown to the Left
 
I think it's obviously true that you want to get a worker out and chopping sometime in the ancient age.

If you're in good position to take a religion, though, and want to pursue a religious strategy, you might want to postpone the worker. Let your city grow first, produce more commerce, then produce a worker later when you have more improvement-techs like animal husbandry, pottery, or bronzeworking. Sometimes I even postpone a worker until I'm close to researching the alphabet, at which point I can trade a tech like monotheism for lots of small techs.

If you're in good position for a horse archer or chariot rush, you might want to postpone that worker until you have animal husbandry (and roads to hook it up).

Or if you're a financial civ, sometimes it's smarter to go for pottery before you produce your first worker. Sometimes.

But if your best shot is to go straight to bronzeworking off the bat, and you're not interested in horses, cottages, or religion... you can get to producing a worker in 4000 BC.

There are multiple strategies that work in this game. I've seen people win with them all, at high difficulties too.
 
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