to everyone questioning trad/liberty mix

[klaskeren]

If you got enough room for it, and nice spots like this, tradition liberty mix with 6 cities will just dominate in a science game, just wanted to share this screenshot.

Spoiler :

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

In theory, I've been convinced to believe that indeed it would be superior, but...
Goddamn that's godly.

I guess instead of dipping to Aesthetics after finishing Trad, you now finish Trad a little later and just in time to go right to Rationalism after.

Question though, what's your SP order in that game?

 

[Vitruvius]

Piety Russia? On growth no cities even religion gets overwhelmed...

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[Airey]

Can you provide the game's initial save(turn 0)?

It's only comparable to play on the same map and same setting.

With this strong map, conclusion cannot be made base on a screenshot alone.
1. every city can build observatory and strong early growth AND production
2. other strategies can peak a few turns later but result a earlier win date.

Just base on this screen shot alone does not = mix Trad/Lib is better than Full Trad + early rat/ideology

Sure the science output is higher than other normal map and AI's aggressive forward setting.
Judging by
-the number of cities AI has and
-pop in their cap respectively,
-number of military units we have
it's prob not on a difficulty level.

 

[kb27787]

that map looks big btw... I cannot imagine that's a standard map.

 

[anthropophage]

With all those mountains and rivers you're going to be spectacularly fast. Sometimes the map generator is very kind.

 

[klaskeren]

In theory, I've been convinced to believe that indeed it would be superior, but...
Goddamn that's godly.

I guess instead of dipping to Aesthetics after finishing Trad, you now finish Trad a little later and just in time to go right to Rationalism after.

Question though, what's your SP order in that game?

trad opener, liberty to settler, rationalism

 

[Conspirator]

With this start going full Tradition would also be dominance.

 

[Memoryjar]

Navigation before or after Engineering ?

 

[sschmalz]

Looks too good to be true from the screenshot. Either I'm doing something terribly wrong or there are some legit questions to be asked. Not the least of which is what difficulty is this? I'm lucky if my empire looks 1/4 as good at t128 on immortal. Also, like others have said, your empire sits in a Montana-ish terrain...couldn't be better. Giving all the glory of the empire to trad/lib mix seems a bit overstated.

 

[klaskeren]

trad opener, liberty to settler, rationalism

sorry i mean trad opener, liberty to settler, finish tradition, rationalism

 

[adwcta]

Its hard to be believable when you don't show the game settings, and play on a map without water (which doubles the living space of the world from a standard map, makes expansion peaceful and guaranteed, etc).

I think you would make your point better putting this on a standard map and posting a screenshot of standard settings (and also disclosing the difficulty).

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[klaskeren]

Its hard to be believable when you don't show the game settings, and play on a map without water (which doubles the living space of the world from a standard map, makes expansion peaceful and guaranteed, etc).

I think you would make your point better putting this on a standard map and posting a screenshot of standard settings (and also disclosing the difficulty).

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well it was not meant to be such a serious thread, but this is a gauntlet game with settings in this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=521895

Expansion: Brave New World
Victory Condition: Diplomacy (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
Difficulty: Warlord
Map Size: Large
Map Type: Great Plains Plus
Speed: Standard
Leader: Shoshone (Pocatello)
Opponents: Any
Version: SV8
Date: 1st to 16th March 2014

 

[sschmalz]

well it was not meant to be such a serious thread

It's such a highly debated topic in these forums, what combination of policies is best, that any thread titled "to anyone questioning..." immediately leads the reader to think that the OP believes he has found the perfect combination, and thus you have drawn a lot of scrutiny.

As a few of us suspected, the glory of your civ isn't due to your policy selections, it's your settings.

 

[klaskeren]

It's such a highly debated topic in these forums, what combination of policies is best, that any thread titled "to anyone questioning..." immediately leads the reader to think that the OP believes he has found the perfect combination, and thus you have drawn a lot of scrutiny.

As a few of us suspected, the glory of your civ isn't due to your policy selections, it's your settings.

cmon, how can you possibly conclude that? what settings make this so special? warlord difficulty doesnt really favor liberty, sure you have to generate more cash yourself, but favors pure tradition as CS allies are easier and expansion spots are easier to get, great plains is not very much different from pangaea, sure large map gives a bit of bonus science with more cities, but not enough that this would not be better than 4 cities, im not saying that i found the perfect combination, im saying that given the circumstances that you have lots of nice expansion spots, trad/liberty does better than trad alone.

 

[klaskeren]

Navigation before or after Engineering ?

you mean astronomy? i take that before eng, i dont tech navigation before the lategame

 

[Justice1337]

Settings plus map conditions does not make an optimal SP opening.

Opening just Trad here would probably have your first 4 cities 2-3 pop higher, and the Observatories would probably be 8-10 turns quicker in getting up as a result. Not to mention being 3 policies ahead of where you're at in Rat. And you could've built just as many cities here whatever SP you open, given you're on Warlord. Maybe even if you don't found as many cities under pure Trad, but pure Trad founding equal numbers of cities is ahead.

Meanwhile opening just Liberty here, and you've got an extra Academy, you've improved your dirt earlier, and you're 4 policies ahead working on your 5th. After all, you don't need border expansion that much since you are Shoshone.

Heck even opening just Piety, you're probably in a similar spot with city count due to no pressure whatsoever, slightly smaller size, way better Gold/Culture/Faith production.


I'm not sure which leads to a faster VC under diplo, but I do know that on higher diff's it's not a hybrid. Going 6 cities then waiting until your 6th policy to get your first Happiness policy (Monarchy), leaves a LOT of Gold on the table. So you're essentailly carrying all of the Gold disadvantages of a Liberty opening with only a limited number of shared benefits. Unless of course you completed all CS quests, founded a Double-Building Religion w/o a Faith Pantheon, and essentially own everything outside your empire because you're on Warlord. That case, maybe just get more stuff, I don't know.

 

[manu-fan]

And there we have it - Difficulty - Warlord.

Any combination of Policies is stellar on Warlord.

 

[adwcta]

On higher difficulties with less room (a normal map, and deity), you will be pushed for spots to peacefully expand into. More importantly, you also won't have the help of GL, and other wonders you've built.

Reproduce the results on a standard map, and it'll be recognized. Your evidence (even anecdotal) doesn't match your claim right now. If your claim is for standard settings, your evidence should be as well. You're trying to show how great your midgame science output is, right? Well, that's affected by difficulty, map size, and map type. 6 cities on large is actually equivalent to 4 cities on a standard map, if I'm not mistaken.

Many things work in your favor here that are not present on standard maps. Once you start weighing factors, you're back to theory crafting, which is fine, but its as convincing as it is in the other thread, because the "evidence" here is non-standard.

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[sschmalz]

cmon, how can you possibly conclude that?

How can I conclude that you'll have a good game on Warlord difficulty regardless of your policy selections?

Look, you can draw whatever conclusions you want to, for your game. I just don't feel like your example is capable of proving wrong "everyone questioning trad/liberty mix"