too much magic

[smusebaer]

In my games I like the midgames war, and like to use magic. In combat mostly Air 2 or Fire 2. But without magic a lone archer on a hill and in a city with just a few hill defence is nearly invincable. No problem with direct damage, but that´s magic. Sure i love magic, but I think the techpath without magic should have the option to deal direct damage. Perhaps with archers or catapults. Or with airborn units. At the moment, when i am not rushing, war means I need magic (or priests).

 

[hbar]

Sure, in a one-on-one fight, the archer wins every time. That's why when you invade, you bring overwhelming numbers. Throw a few disposable troops at the walls to soften them up, and then bring on the promoted ones. The real problem is when there are three archers, especially if they have a disciple for healing. That's when you pillage every improvement and call it a day.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

You know, there's a reason Catapults and Flanking promotions exist. Flanking III Horsemen have what, 75% withdrawal rate, and Catapults have 80%.

As for the archer, so what? Archers are what, 3/5 +25% Hill +25% City +25% Fortify? Even with Guerilla II (+100% Hill) and City Garrison III (+120% City), that's still only +270% for 18.5 strength. Axemen with Bronze are 5 strength +10% City, City Raider III is also +120%, Combat I-Cover is +60%. Sure, you'll lose the first axeman, but the second one should win easily. Alternatively, use catapults (80% Withdrawal) or Horsemen with flanking II/III (65% Withdrawal/75% Withdrawal and FS immunity) first.

 

[Sensemann]

but think about, that your opponent dont have one archer in his city, only. and so you need 3-5 well promoted units, and its easier for the defender to get such units.
catapults are very useful and efficient weapons, but i think a 80% withdraw is overpowered, and for the world, why should a catapult have 80% withdraw chance? it is slow, bold, and huge...
but smusebear is right, there have to something that makes it possible to fight without magic (defend and attack).
perhaps reduce magic resistance to combat 2 and allow more and better at the third tier promotion against every unit, but make it harder to get it (like more requierements). so that you have to specialize your units instead of overwhelming the enemy with units that are averaged.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

catapults are very useful and efficient weapons, but i think a 80% withdraw is overpowered, and for the world, why should a catapult have 80% withdraw chance? it is slow, bold, and huge...

cuz they don't charge at the enemy, they just sit there raining rocks on them

 

[Rishardas]

The real problem is when there are three archers, especially if they have a disciple for healing.

Assassins.
Buffed (poison) Svartalfar assassins

 

[Sensemann]

cuz they don't charge at the enemy, they just sit there raining rocks on them

then it should be possible, to collateral damage catapults with cavalry (like civ4 bts) or reduce the withdraw chance to simulate cavalry.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Alternately, maybe a mechanic sort of taken from CTP.. it the catapult attacks, defending catapults attack back with no chance of withdrawal. Basically 2 catapults launching rocks at each other from opposite sides of the wall until one is crushed.

 

[smusebaer]

In the age of Ice mod, archer can cause direct damage. And I think that catapults with the ability to create a "boulder" (something like a fireball) would be quiet easy to create. And a spell like "siege" with 5 turns casting time, that causes the defender to suffer (something like the spell wither), for sieging units would be great.
The options in nonmagical combat are just a little bit borring compared to magical combat.
1. Very strong units.
2. massiv assault (with colateral damage and retreat)
3. Assasins, that kill the weak units.

And massiv assault is difficult, because of the upkeepcosts for units.

 

[westamastaflash]

Catapults are cheap and have 80% withdrawal. Give them Barrage and they chew through city defenses, unless the Archers have Drill 4...

 

[El_Duderino]

As i understand it Kael took the direct damage away from archers because there was too much overlap with the mage line, so i strongly doubt that archers or seige units would get anything like that (in the main mod that is). I think it would be cool though to have archers and seige units in the stack give a strength bonus (supporting fire +25%)to other units in the stack (multiple archers and siege units wouldnt stack).