Top 10 combat rifles

[Bugfatty300]

The latest version of the British SA80 is meant to be as good as it gets I heard. However the early models were quite the opposite, strange eh !

While it appears that the British MoD has gotten the L85 (SA-80) to work, it'll probably be remembered as one of the worst issue rifles in history. Probably a combination of poor design and media hype.

Aside from the current version being a somewhat satisfactory servicable weapon (now) there is really nothing speacial about the SA-80 that makes it better than anyother rifle around other than its length.

The British have since gave the design to German gunsmiths to work on. That version won't be around for around 10 years. HK will probably make the Brits a much better weapon.

 

[Shaihulud]

I attest to the fact that i have encountered regular jamming with the M16 as well. Of every 10 single shots, it is almost guaranteed that it will jam at least once. Its is however able to expend a full magazine on automatic though, and doesn't jams.

 

[thetrooper]

Of every 10 single shots, it is almost guaranteed that it will jam at least once.

Hmm... that's a bad record.

Strange that Igloodude haven't found this thread yet.

 

[Bugfatty300]

@shailhulud. If your weapon is jamming every 10 rounds then there is something seriously wrong with it. That is not normal.

Singapore's M16S1s aren't exactly the high end of the M16 family (If that is what you were using) and are very old. I hear the Singapore military can't wait to get the SAR-21.

I fired 150 rounds through my US High Standard last month with out a problem. I would say the Colt US issue M16 family are as reliable as most modern assault rifles exluding the piston gas rifles.

Non-US made M16s (with the exception of the Canadian) aren't exactly known for their quality. Especially Taiwan's Crap-16s. Thats why the Philippines, Thaiwan and other nations who issue the M16 buy them from US companies instead of trying to manufacture them.

 

[cidknee]

@shailhulud. If your weapon is jamming every 10 rounds then there is something seriously wrong with it. That is not normal.

Singapore's M16S1s aren't exactly the high end of the M16 family (If that is what you were using) and are very old. I hear the Singapore military can't wait to get the SAR-21.

I fired 150 rounds through my US High Standard last month with out a problem. I would say the Colt US issue M16 family are as reliable as most modern assault rifles exluding the piston gas rifles.

Non-US made M16s (with the exception of the Canadian) aren't exactly known for their quality. Especially Taiwan's Crap-16s. Thats why the Philippines, Thaiwan and other nations who issue the M16 buy them from US companies instead of trying to manufacture them.

I also thought that the list was for assault rifles. But im hopped up on meds right now and cant read straight.

I agree.
ive fired LOTS of M16's, I prefer the M4, but I havent had all that many jams. I can remember some, but not every 10 shots.

If that is the case, u need to go see a gunsmith bad.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Never fired any of the weapons in the list. However I have fired CETMEs B and L (the real ones used by the army, made in Spain by Santa Barbara not the low quality commercial copies built around the world) and HK G-36 which should be in the list IMO.

I found the 7.62mm CETME B (insipired in the WW2 German Stg.45) a very solid and powerful rifle but too heavy and noisy for my taste while the G-36 (current Spanish army rifle) is almost perfect, very light and easy to fire but it seems less solid to me. However, maybe becuase i used it the most, my preferred one was the CETME L (the latest CETME version, 5.56mm) i found it very equilibrated in all aspects.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Its is however able to expend a full magazine on automatic though, and doesn't jams.

The M16A1 or M16A2? Because I think they changed it so that the A2 only fires three rounds per burst on automatic, as the grunts in Vietnam tended to go through magazines too fast.

 

[Shaihulud]

The M16A1 or M16A2?

Its M16A2, semi automatic allows you to fire 3 rounds if you hold the trigger. Automatic fires the whole clip. I propably shouldn't imply that my experience is the sum of all the M16 rifles, certainly the rifles that belongs to the officers are much more accurate and doesn't jam as much, i have shot from rifles that the battalion used for competition, it is very accurate, i shot perfectly. The rifles that lower ranks used are very poor in quality, its impossible to zero as well, since the shot goes all over the place.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Its M16A2, semi automatic allows you to fire 3 rounds if you hold the trigger. Automatic fires the whole clip.

The US M16A2 selecter switch is set to single shots, and 3 round bursts only. There is no setting for automatic fire. Are you sure it wasn't another M16 variant?

 

[cidknee]

i remember some of the old m16's had full auto, but most ppl cant hit anything with it, and its just wasting ammo. Thats also what they have the m60 for.

The U.S. no longer generally issues fully-automatic M16-style rifles. Even with the relatively light recoil of the M16, the point of aim is still thrown off sufficiently by each round that a fully-automatic rifle would be wildly inaccurate and amount to a waste of ammunition. The 30-round magazine is not suited to sustained fire like the belted feed systems of heavier true machine guns, and the M16's lightweight barrel would overheat quickly under automatic fire. Doctrinally, machine guns deliver suppressing fire to keep the enemy under cover while the more mobile riflemen flank the position and deliver point fire. Some variants of the M4, whose design favors close-quarters battle, are capable of fully automatic fire as this makes more sense at the limited ranges encountered in close-quarters combat.

Most M16 and M4-style weapons issued are capable of semi-automatic fire and 3-round burst. The burst-fire mechanism utilizes a three-part automatic sear that fires up to three rounds for each pull of the trigger. It is non-resetting, meaning that if the user fires a two-round burst and releases the trigger, he will encounter a single round fired the next burst. In theory, burst-fire mechanisms allow ammunition conservation for troops with limited training and combat experience, at the cost of a very poor trigger pull. They also tend to limit the weapon's effectiveness when used in suppression, ambush situations, and close-quarters combat.

good old wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_(rifle)

 

[Shaihulud]

Oops, it is apparently source:

M16S1 M16 variant produced locally under license; for all intents similar to the M16A1

so it is fully automatic, my bad.

 

[BaneBlade]

WTH? Who pulled this out his ....... Even with the rather odd points(longevity.... )to determine the TOP combat rifle, just WTH? Steyr AUG is a fine rifle but not wide-spread and it has not participated in a major war. Even given the obvious american viewpoint, what has the Springfield to do with this? And where are older rifles?
Is this from a populist source?

 

[Bugfatty300]

WTH? Who pulled this out his ....... Even with the rather odd points(longevity.... )to determine the TOP combat rifle, just WTH? Steyr AUG is a fine rifle but not wide-spread and it has not participated in a major war. Even given the obvious american viewpoint, what has the Springfield to do with this? And where are older rifles?
Is this from a populist source?

Its from a History Channel show. I agree. Its a bad list (mine is far superior) obviously aside from some of them they got right.

HC has a fetish for anything US GI or German so I guess that explains some choices.

 

[Jawz II]

i dont think how many of each rifle has been produced should be a factor, i think the best mechanical design (of the time) should decide where on the list the weapon is.

my top ten list would be:

1.mauser
2.ak-47
3.maxim gun

and then all other guns, m16 woudnt even make the top 10.

 

[nonconformist]

Maxim gun wouldn't be classified as an assault rifle though, it's a machinegun.

 

[cidknee]

umm dude, the Springfield was an excellent rifle, for its time. It was highly accurate and in competent hands could lay down fire, or be used to pick off the enemy at a good range. The USMC used this rifle for a long time, WW1, WW2 and if im not mistaken there were still some in Korea. So I would say being involved in 2 world wars, a police action and being a bolt action rilfe, it deserves a place on the list. My opinion, but it is a fine rifle.

 

[Bugfatty300]

umm dude, the Springfield was an excellent rifle, for its time. It was highly accurate and in competent hands could lay down fire, or be used to pick off the enemy at a good range. The USMC used this rifle for a long time, WW1, WW2 and if im not mistaken there were still some in Korea. So I would say being involved in 2 world wars, a police action and being a bolt action rilfe, it deserves a place on the list. My opinion, but it is a fine rifle.

Yeah. It was great rifle. US marines armed with Springfield M03s at Belleau Wood shot down baffled German troops at 500-800 yards with iron sights. In comparison the Germans considered shooting at anything beyond 300-400 yards with open sights a waste of ammo.

Don't know if that was atributable to the rifle or good ol' American marksmanship.

 

[cidknee]

I think it was both. And yeah Belleau Wood is a great example.

 

[El Justo]

nice thread you got here Mr. Fatty i saw this exact program over the weekend.

i agree w/ most of the assessments here. i mean, the m16 being that high on the list was a mild surpise to me. don't get me wrong, the m16, when not jamming, is a fantastic rifle. however, i've always wondered just how many soldiers in vietnam died b/c their stinkin' rifle jammed up. hell, there was even a congressional investigation into the matter...

i've had veterans tell me that they actually preferred the m14 to the m16 simply b/c of the jamming. i can't really blame them i guess.

there are also stories about how 'Charlie' would simply leave any m16s they found on the battlefield b/c they disliked them so much...not to mention the reduced stopping effectiveness of the 5.56mm cartridge (compared to the soviet 7.62 mm).

one thing i've noticed though about the m16 was that when it was introduced in vietnam, there was no tried and true method to keep the gun clean in a jungle environment, especially since there was no chrome-lined barrel on the m16 (at least on the origianl versions of the m16). from what i understand, once the US Army and USMC recognized the shortcomings of the m16, they took steps to ensure that the soldiers had the appropriate materials for keeping the guns clean (chrome-lined barrels/bore). they even created a comic book-like manual for the GIs in the 'Nam on how to keep the m16 clean etc.

considering all of this, it is hard to believe that the m16, despite its praises, is able to score that high on the list.

 

[Bugfatty300]

@El Justo. As you mentioned, the problem was more the military and not really the M16.

The original M16 was pretty effective. The SAS used it in Oman and Borneo and liked it. As far as I know the SAS and other British special forces have used the M16 ever since. The South Vietnamese also liked them alot.

As for Americans, in Vietnam, the ammunition was crappy and dirty along with the magazines that wore out easily. Plus the military stopped chroming the chambers. The biggest problem was that the military never issued cleanings kits to the troops for quite a while.

Better rifle ammunition, stronger magazine springs, chromed chamber made the M16 a good rifle.

In the 1970s the Vietnamese governments got rid of all the ARVN M16s left behind by the US. Many of these rifles ended up the hands of Filipino communists and muslim rebels and they are still using them today. So I'd say those were some pretty darn good rifles once the bugs were worked out.

there are also stories about how 'Charlie' would simply leave any m16s they found on the battlefield b/c they disliked them so much...not to mention the reduced stopping effectiveness of the 5.56mm cartridge (compared to the soviet 7.62 mm).

The Viet-Cong didn't like to pick up M14s either. There were other reasons for leaving them such as lack of ammo, and also the risk of being mistakingly shot by other communists who were simply shooting at the sound of "M16 fire." But it wasn't heard of.

Same for US soldiers who used AK-47s. Regular US soldiers using AK-47s was not widespread for the same reasons.

As for why it made the list, the M16 is second only to the AK as the most infamous and proflific weapons ever. 90% of all M16s manufactured in the past 40 years (some 10-15 million) are still in service with some military or rebel force.