ToT scenario creation tips?

[yoshi]

Not necessarily. Did you take a look at the link? Nobody, as far as I'm aware, has taken on Angelo Scotto's CSPL. I'm not a C++ programmer, so investigating its potential would require some extra effort on my part - and I'm a lazy bugger.

Where the macro is concerned, I guess the source cosde isn't necessary but it is if you you want to do more advanced stuff --which would require the actual program to be changed. But then, I just skimmed over the link. Funny you should mention it because I downloaded CSPL but never got around to messing with it. I'm pretty bloody lazy too...

The trigger isn't placed on the transport site (it would block access otherwise), but instead, on a tile accessible via the destination site.

Oh, right. The attacker get transported to a separate map where the trigger unit is right?
What about using the Transport action to change the transport properties of the same group of unit so that they can use differnt sites at differnt times during the course of the game? Not at all familiar with the Transport action so please don't ask me to elaborate on that.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

For more stuff concerning events in both MGE and ToT see my Events Thread.

 

[Catfish]

Originally posted by yoshi
What about using the Transport action to change the transport properties of the same group of unit so that they can use differnt sites at differnt times during the course of the game?

Yes, I'm already using it - some of the units have dynamic transport settings. It's similar to the cascading triggers I mentioned in the last post - some units open up maps for other units.

Originally posted by yoshi
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

That's cool. You can't see the situation from my end, so you're at a disadvantage.

 

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Wobbegong
If I read you correctly, here, I run the risk of the trigger killing the wrong unit. Whilst I can't use these ideas on this occasion, your help is appreciated.

I was thinking the same thing as yoshi, but I think it could be made to work.

Have one or more maps where those triggers are supposed to be activated, with transporters leading to them and enough information for the player to know which units are the right ones for the task at hand.

Instead of a weak defensive unit that needs to be killed, use a massively powerful self-destructive, low-range air unit. You could probably create one repeatedly, every few turns, since the unit will crash and die if it doesn't find anything to kill.

Whenever any unit enters the "trigger zone" the missile will kill it. But, since you know which unit was killed and where, you can simply recreate it again on the transporter spot.

If the right unit died, the task is completed.

You've got to be s**tting me, man. A day or so later she rolls up in the Scenario League forum. Now, I really do have my doubts about you, Mercator.

*uses telekinetic powers to move cup on Wobbegong's desk*

 

[yoshi]

*uses telekinetic powers to move cup on Wobbegong's desk*

To young and stupid to know exactly what this is about, but...

 

[Catfish]

@Mercator:
I believe that yoshi's static defender is actually a safer option. As you say, this type of trigger would also require the player's full understanding of the routine.

Originally posted by Mercator
*uses telekinetic powers to move cup on Wobbegong's desk*

Based on my previous comments, I think a DL is more likely.

Originally posted by yoshi
To young and stupid to know exactly what this is about, but...

I wouldn't worry. If Mercator has any power at all, it's the power to confuse.

 

[Catfish]

Originally posted by Wobbegong
Whilst I can't use these ideas on this occasion, your help is appreciated.

I take back what I said. I've found a role for the static, unbeatable defender (which I'll refer to as the triggerattacker). Its map location would be restricted to 3 of the player's units, of which only one will be the correct triggerdefender. This is the final task in the scenario, so it doesn't really matter if the other 2 units are killed - I'll just produce appropriate death messages. When the task is complete, the triggerdefender will respawn in its original tile. The triggerattacker will probably be barbarian. Barbarians are currently active in other parts of the map, so I think I'll have to implement a penultimate trigger to "switch on" the final one at the appropriate time.

 

[yoshi]

Sweet.

(I seem to have run out of tips... )

 

[Catfish]

Due to the transport site issue, I had to reshuffle some of my locations on the secondary maps. Unit transport relationships, once written to the .sav or .scn file, are unaffected by further changes to rules.txt. So when faced with changing them all via events, I took the quick option and hex edited them in.

Everything was going along nicely until I tried resetting the transport sites, themselves. It seems that when you remove a transport site (cheat menu), its settings are retained in the .sav file. Therefore, if you create a new one at the same location, it inherits the characteristics of the old. I can't seem to clear the old settings. ChangeTerrain doesn't work. Don't know where this info hides in the .sav file. There's always something, isn't there?

Originally posted by yoshi
(I seem to have run out of tips... )

Well, for a day or two, anyway.

 

[yoshi]

Man, now I know I'm not going to mess with transport sites! I probably would've beat myself unconscious with the keyboard or something by now. Let it never be said Wobbegong lacks patience.

Well, for a day or two, anyway.

Heh, heh.

 

[Catfish]

Originally posted by yoshi
Man, now I know I'm not going to mess with transport sites! I probably would've beat myself unconscious with the keyboard or something by now. Let it never be said Wobbegong lacks patience.

Hey, I'm a pioneer – just paving the way for that army *cough* of ToT scenario designers to follow.

Seriously though, I forgot the most obvious solution: pillaging. Thought of it last night, forgot about it this morning. Logic says it has to work and it does. Problem solved.

There ya go yoshi. You have nothing to fear from using transport sites.

 

[yoshi]

Oh, whew! You had me worried there. I thought you'd find a way out of that problem eventually...I know I wouldn't have.

..Now if only making unit sprites were that easy...

Armies? I'd settle for at least some platoons. I'm beginning to think there aren't even that many MGE designers left out there...all too busy playing Civ3 no doubt. (Suckers.) Having played quite a number of Civ3 scenarios I still don't know how Civ3 designers can stand it without events. I tried designing one once and it made me physically sick --and that's with the advanced Editor. I even did a poll once that asked if players wanted events in Civ3. Would you believe that some goofs actually said NO?!

Man, I've REALLY deviated from the point of this thread now. I got so tired out from looking through sprite unit frames that I can't even think of any more ToT tips (really this time). Oh well, I'm tired and going to b...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Catfish]

Originally posted by yoshi
Man, I've REALLY deviated from the point of this thread now.

Hopefully I haven't strayed too far either. I suppose my experiences with the transport sites could fall within the category of creation tips.

An interesting side effect of this latest transport site quirk is that you can actually create one-way portals (which I'm now doing). For example (using the cheat menu): Create a transport site linking map 2 to an impassable terrain tile in map 3. Delete both sites. At the same (x,y) coordinates, create a site on map 1 that links to map 2. This will allow access to map 2. However, the original attributes of the map 2 site will not be cleared – it's still linking to the impassable location in map 3. Therefore, map 1 -> 2 is allowed while 2 -> 1 is not.

 

[yoshi]

That's one damn clever ToT tip Wobbegong.

 

[Katlover97]

I have a question (Obviously).
I don't know if anyone's asked this before, but I'm too lazy to check.
I am making a mod pack (I don't know what, it's just for fun),
and I looked at city.bmp. I changed that file, but is didn't do anything!
I thought that controlled the look of the city window?
Answers? Suggestions? Anyone?



Ignore this. It is a test.

private sub cmdbutton_click() 
     imgbutton.visible = true 
end sub

 

[Katlover97]

I don't mean to stray from the subject of the thread, but dose anyone know what php means? I tried to put some visual basic code in syntax highlighting and it didn't work (I'm not sure that I typed the code right anyway). I think it's suposed to look like this:

Private Sub cmdbutton_click()
imgbutton.Visible = True
End Sub

So what is PHP?

 

[Mercator]

I think you might need to put the city.bmp in the "Original" folder to get it to work.

As for PHP, it's a recursive abbreviation and stands for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor". It's a server-side scripting language. It's what these forums are made with (notice the .php in the URL). So that tag would have it marked up as PHP code.

 

[Jawn Henry]

..Now if only making unit sprites were that easy...

That might answer the question as to why some peolpe are sticking to straght Civ2 - i imagine MGE has the same look as Civ2 straight?

I started (quite a while back) to make a Midgard mod - using the largest Civ2 world map as a base - but i ran into scriping snags, i never figured out what were the causes. All i had done was to modify the co-ordinates in the events to match the new maps... Anyways, i don't have the related files anymore, but i may restart - don't hold your breath, though. I also spend my meager game time on PG2, EU2, a stint on Civ3 every... year, about.

I hope Civ 4 is a mix of 2 & 3.

BTW, i was on Apolyton waaaay before coming here: i did have the impression i was the only "freak" doing ToT...

JH

 

[Catfish]

That might answer the question as to why some peolpe are sticking to straght Civ2

I don't believe so. I'd put it down to bad timing, bad marketing, bad pricing (initially) and bad graphics. It's a shame really, because it's actually a superior game engine to the older versions of Civ2. Then again… there are also Luddites who won't have a bar of it regardless of what you tell them.

As to the sprites: they aren't required. You can simply use 24-bit bitmaps. Unlike older versions of Civ2 which use an 8-bit palette (256 colours, of which only 192 are actually usable), ToT renders its graphics in 16-bit colour (Just in case Mercator's prowling around: it's effectively 15-bit, with the last bit used for masks). So even when using bitmaps, you still have the potential for a significant improvement in graphics quality. Unfortunately Microprose's graphic designers made a mess of it.

The sprites are really only as difficult as you want them to be. You could fully animate the units or just make do with static ones with 1 to 5 orientations (8 when mirrored). For example, the elephant below (ripped from Age of Kings) is a static sprite with 5 frames.

Since I started using ToT, I can't go back to older versions of the game. They simply don't cut the mustard from a scenario design point of view. ToT's advanced scripting makes it superior to both Civ2 MGE/FW and Civ3... and I can't stand that 8-bit terrain!

 

[Jawn Henry]

Hmmm... Innn-teresting... Yessss. Nice. I like it. Yes, because, you see, i like "poking around" with my games, and i was toying around with - well, tons of ideas (with no time for pretty well any of them ), but one being making a ToT version of Jules Verne. Now that's a cool scen if there ever was one - it's about the only thing that gets me to Civ2 "straight style" - even then, rarely. Imagine that with layered maps?

JH

 

[yoshi]

Jawn Henry,

What Wobbegong said. Using Mercator´s CivSprite, you can convert unit animated images from .SPR to .BMP format and then back again with the changes. To make it easier, you can just take already animated images from some other game (like Civ3--using FLICster to extract the files to .BMP format) and replace the old images.
It´s time-consuming beacause there´s a lot of cutting and pasting to do but as W said, you can limit it to just the static unit animation (i.e. unit doesn´t move but faces in the 8 different directions--again, note that you only have to do 5 directions as the others are mirrored, see above).

Scripting snags: use the debug tool (include a text file named Debug.txt? into the scenario folder and restart the scenario) and check for errors there.
Also note that when using multiple maps in ToT you have to specify, next to the grid coordinates, what map is affected. If you don´t specify, the program will go to default--but the triggers should still work because both maps are the same size (and I think the only thing that happens if coordinates are over water when creating a land unit is that the unit will simply not appear, but the trigger should still function). Are you sure nothing else was changed? If not, I can´t think what the problem could be.

Civ4: Better to stay away from Civ3 in everything except some key new concepts IMO.

ToT is underrated but that is because many people think of it as just MGE with better graphics because those people don´t mod, hence are unaware of the new enhancements to the macro...which is unfortunate. Multi-maps, and new rules features also do a lot where modding is concerned. Not to mention that you don´t need anything near as advanced a system to play ToT as you do Civ3...but tell that to people who only play the vanilla game.

The only reason why it is still worth creating scens in MGE format is beacause, quite frankly, more players will see your work...but maybe it´s time they all upgraded (which is rather easy now thanks to Cedric Green ).

W, what program did you use to capture that image?