plastiqe
Grinch
Pfft speak for yourself, I have all the answersdh_epic said:
And good call on the stack limits, but you also have to have a limit on how many units can defend a city so that it isn't unfair in the defenses favour.
Trade routes/Colonies
- Thread starter Teabeard
- Start date
And good call on the stack limits, but you also have to have a limit on how many units can defend a city so that it isn't unfair in the defenses favour.
What does everyone think of teh ctp trade routes model? In this, you build a caravan, and then instead of representing it as a unit, it goes into a pool. You then establish trade routes using your trade advisor. Any trade routes made get drawn on the map as lines, and can be pillaged by any unit on that line which has the Pillager flag set. This does of course mean having to protect the entire route rather than a unit, which is entirely realistic imho. No more safe trading next to hostile empires unless you actually patrol those waters. It also gives a real reason to have a strong navy.
Dwarven Zerker
Just one more turn Honey!
For anything on the seas there's something that needs to be addressed before adding something like this. The AI absolutely must do a better job playing the ocean. Until that happens anything proposed to help the player will end up being an exploit.
My most recent game on a monarch 'pelago has yet to see anything resembling a navy for any of my opponents. Some of my opponents I've gifted techs to bring them current with me and they still have a ridiculously small & antiquated navy. Until the AI is capable of mounting a marginally effective cross ocean invasion anything along this line will be an exploit for the player.
As for land based "supply lines"? That's covered already. Most all of my supply lines are maintained inside my cultural borders so there's no need to maintain a supply line. The only time I've used a colony was during my very first game. I did it only once and haven't bothered since. I simply build a settler to plant a city near the resource. If I ever play a 5cc or OCC I would obviously be more concerned about it but considering that those variants are played so rarely (in comparison to the number of "normal games") this idea doesn't provide much enhancement of the game to merit development.
But I could be wrong and Soren & the boys could be coding the idea as we speak.
My most recent game on a monarch 'pelago has yet to see anything resembling a navy for any of my opponents. Some of my opponents I've gifted techs to bring them current with me and they still have a ridiculously small & antiquated navy. Until the AI is capable of mounting a marginally effective cross ocean invasion anything along this line will be an exploit for the player.
As for land based "supply lines"? That's covered already. Most all of my supply lines are maintained inside my cultural borders so there's no need to maintain a supply line. The only time I've used a colony was during my very first game. I did it only once and haven't bothered since. I simply build a settler to plant a city near the resource. If I ever play a 5cc or OCC I would obviously be more concerned about it but considering that those variants are played so rarely (in comparison to the number of "normal games") this idea doesn't provide much enhancement of the game to merit development.
But I could be wrong and Soren & the boys could be coding the idea as we speak.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
Never played CTP but sounds like an intriguing idea. Why have a caravan pool at all? Why not just draw the routes with your trade / diplomacy advisor. There should also be a maintainance fee. That way finding a more efficient route is profitable, and thus monopolizing a sea becomes a very important strategy -- so you can monopolize the best trade mediums.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
I say we move to here -- the "bring back the caravan" thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=101488
Bring all your relevent quotes, and meet you there.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=101488
Bring all your relevent quotes, and meet you there.
The reason for the pool is that you wouldn't necessarily establish a trade route right away. Also, a pillaged trade route had a 1/2 chance of allowing the caravan to survive and retuirn to the pool. Finally, you could voluntarily cancel a trade route and return the caravan to the pool.
Of course, you could avoid the caravan building stage by having trade routes buildable as soon as the right tech appears, but that removes one of the big costs for having your route pillaged.
The main problem with CTP trade was that is was exclusively a domestic trade model to link trade resources (somewhat similar to civ3 special resources in placement) within your empire. Alhough there isn't any reason why the basic idea couldn't be tweaked so you link your cities to foreign cities instead. Perhaps foreign cities provide better profits. Your trade advisor wold be able to estimate the potential value of any trade routes, and should warn you if a potential route would enter or approach hostile territory.
Of course, you could avoid the caravan building stage by having trade routes buildable as soon as the right tech appears, but that removes one of the big costs for having your route pillaged.
The main problem with CTP trade was that is was exclusively a domestic trade model to link trade resources (somewhat similar to civ3 special resources in placement) within your empire. Alhough there isn't any reason why the basic idea couldn't be tweaked so you link your cities to foreign cities instead. Perhaps foreign cities provide better profits. Your trade advisor wold be able to estimate the potential value of any trade routes, and should warn you if a potential route would enter or approach hostile territory.
pho3nix
Chieftain
i concur with the colonies idea that was posted first... colonies are alright, but when they get in bordered kinda pointless.
Synergy67
Warlord
Concerning sea resources: like land resources, I think they should be accessible by connecting to them or building a fishery/platform/mining colony or whatever to it to utilize it. For a long time, you could only get to nearby coastal and sea tiles, but later on you could get to deep water resources, not just depending on a city radius. I too love the idea of many different kinds of and degree of resources and luxuries which are not dependent on a city being so nearby to it. Some resources should have common values and uses and fewer ones would have rare or luxury values, many of these shifting in later eras as well.
In Civ Call to Power I liked how they had squids, crabs, and whales as sea resources as well as being able to harness the production of underwater rifts and seamounts (volcanoes). I was thinking that offshore resources should be available if you want to bother to send a ship out there and invest in building something (fishery, oil platform, etc.) and then youd have to protect it from being pillaged during wartime too probably.
You could even fish international waters if no one else has claimed a pod of whales way off the coast. Might be hard to hold on to them during times of war though.
Instead of needing just one oil to have all the oil youd ever need, resources would be more plentiful and spread around in the appropriate terrains, but represent finite quantities each. If you are going to build a huge tank army, you have to have some number of oil sources to add up to enough to fuel them perhaps. The more excess oil you had to trade, the more money you could bring in and buy things including military units from other nations, like rich Kuwait which has nothing else much going for it and is in desert terrain, but is fabulously wealthy. It remedies the all or nothing approach to resources and makes it useful to try to get more and more of them, rather than just one or two of each. it might take a certain amount of the same luxury item to satisfy all your cities if you have many large cities too....more than just one source...maybe two or three or more, depending on how proliferous they might be as well.
In Civ Call to Power I liked how they had squids, crabs, and whales as sea resources as well as being able to harness the production of underwater rifts and seamounts (volcanoes). I was thinking that offshore resources should be available if you want to bother to send a ship out there and invest in building something (fishery, oil platform, etc.) and then youd have to protect it from being pillaged during wartime too probably.
You could even fish international waters if no one else has claimed a pod of whales way off the coast. Might be hard to hold on to them during times of war though.
Instead of needing just one oil to have all the oil youd ever need, resources would be more plentiful and spread around in the appropriate terrains, but represent finite quantities each. If you are going to build a huge tank army, you have to have some number of oil sources to add up to enough to fuel them perhaps. The more excess oil you had to trade, the more money you could bring in and buy things including military units from other nations, like rich Kuwait which has nothing else much going for it and is in desert terrain, but is fabulously wealthy. It remedies the all or nothing approach to resources and makes it useful to try to get more and more of them, rather than just one or two of each. it might take a certain amount of the same luxury item to satisfy all your cities if you have many large cities too....more than just one source...maybe two or three or more, depending on how proliferous they might be as well.
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