Trading 101?

[trias10]

I'm not sure I understand how the trading system works in this game.

The fact that there is a 30 turn time limit to everything makes it seem like a strange loan system, not actual commerce. Am I correct in believing that everything you "trade" will revert back after 30 turns?

For example, let's say I want 10 iron from CivA and I will trade 200 gold for it (for 30 turns). The deal goes through. I now have +10 iron (let's say I had zero before, so now I have 10 total), and 200 less gold (let's say I had 200 gold before the trade, and now I have zero total).

Let's say that, over the next 20 turns, I use 5 of that iron to build 5 swordsmen.

When the 30 turn time limit hits, do I now give back 10 units of iron to CivA and CivA gives me back my 200 gold? So my iron goes to -5, but my gold goes up by 200?

A time limit system makes sense if you trade resource for resource, for example I give you ivory in return for spices for 30 turns, and then we revert back. But trading a commodity for money is usually for the purpose of consumption, hence to swap back after 30 turns makes little sense, if that's actually how it works in the game.

 

[Tutkarz]

They dont give you back money just stop providing iron, so you have to find other iron source or pay high maintenance for units that require it.

And it is annoying when i make few trades and every few turns i have to redo them again and again. Another thing that encourage me to get resources by force instead.

 

[Cr0wz]

It's clear that communists designed the trade system in Civ5.

 

[Punchline]

That's pretty much how it works, and yes, most agree that it doesn't make a whole lot sense. I don't believe you get your money back, however. And the penalty for having units once you've lost their associated strategic resource is pretty steep - Tutkarz mentions an increase in upkeep, and I seem to remember a combat penalty.

It's rare that I actually need a strategic resource, and even rarer that I feel the need to trade for some temporarily, so I would say that area of the game still needs some work.

-P

 

[trias10]

Sorry, am a bit more confused by your reply.

You said they just "stop providing iron", but you've already received the 10 units of iron when you first initiated the trade, so what do you mean by this? Do they take back their 10 units of iron, leaving you -5 iron, but don't give you back your money?

So in that case, you're paying money up front, which you will never get back, to essentially rent 10 units of iron for 30 turns?

 

[trias10]

That's pretty much how it works, and yes, most agree that it doesn't make a whole lot sense. I don't believe you get your money back, however. And the penalty for having units once you've lost their associated strategic resource is pretty steep - Tutkarz mentions an increase in upkeep, and I seem to remember a combat penalty.

It's rare that I actually need a strategic resource, and even rarer that I feel the need to trade for some temporarily, so I would say that area of the game still needs some work.

-P

That clears it up, cheers.

So you pay non-recoverable money, to rent a strategic resource for x turns.

I agree, that's complete crap.

 

[Tutkarz]

Sorry, am a bit more confused by your reply.

You said they just "stop providing iron", but you've already received the 10 units of iron when you first initiated the trade, so what do you mean by this? Do they take back their 10 units of iron, leaving you -5 iron, but don't give you back your money?

So in that case, you're paying money up front, which you will never get back, to essentially rent 10 units of iron for 30 turns?

Amount of iron displayed on top of the screen shows how much iron you have per turn. Not total. Iron you not use for units are lost.

 

[trias10]

Amount of iron displayed on top of the screen shows how much iron you have per turn. Not total. Iron you not use for units are lost.

I'm not sure that's correct. I think the number at the top of the screen is the total amount of iron you have [see the game manual, page 42, 4th paragraph].

 

[Razzlesnaff]

The resources at the top of your screen represent what you have available to you. Say you have your own source of iron that provides six iron and you build two swordsman, you know have four available iron.

Anyway, your question has pretty much been summed up and answered. If you trade gold for a resource, that gold is no longer yours. You won't get it back, it's gone. If you receive ten iron via a trade and then you make ten swordsman, after the deal is up you're at -10 iron. Negative ten iron. You need ten iron to have zero iron.

Trading gold for strategic resources is a bad idea. The only time I trade gold for a resource is a luxury resource if it's going to take more than a few turns to get my happiness above zero.

 

[kaltorak]

I'm not sure that's correct. I think the number at the top of the screen is the total amount of iron you have [see the game manual, page 42, 4th paragraph].

Don't know about the manual, but the number on the top shows the number you have left. So if you have 8 and 2 swordsman, it displays 6. If you hover with the mose, it shows total too.

 

[trias10]

Cheers, I very much appreciate everyone's replies!

One last question: in one game, I have spare luxury resources to trade (I own 5 silver mines). However, when I try to trade the excess silver away to my nearest neighbouring civilization, my silver doesn't even show up under the "+ luxury resources" tab of my offerings for trade. Some of my other luxury resources do show up.

Does this essentially mean that the other civ doesn't want any silver?

 

[JAMiAM]

Cheers, I very much appreciate everyone's replies!

One last question: in one game, I have spare luxury resources to trade (I own 5 silver mines). However, when I try to trade the excess silver away to my nearest neighbouring civilization, my silver doesn't even show up under the "+ luxury resources" tab of my offerings for trade. Some of my other luxury resources do show up.

Does this essentially mean that the other civ doesn't want any silver?

Correct. They already have it, and don't benefit from getting any extra in trade.

 

[FeelGood]

It's weird that once you built one swordsman, you still need the iron. Otherwise, you have to pay steep price. Maybe this is to simulate the spare parts or maintenance on the of the swords?

 

[Tylerryan79]

Be carful trading strategic resources, I have a bug where I traded 10 horses and after the 30 turns I never got them back. In the same game I had traded 2 to Rome and got them back though. The 10 trade was with Darius.

Also I only trade to recieve strategic resources if I plan on going into war and have none. After the war I delete the units, or by then I have my own resources and let the deal end.

As to lux resources you only need 1 of ech kind for your happiness bonus, the rest you can trade for ones you don't have, or sell for 300 gold for 45 turns on a standard paced game.

 

[tomidius]

I ended up with about 1200 coal in a game I was doing a 1city cultural victory on.. Apparently I was trading coal for money/items etc.. And they seemed to be canceled after a couple turns giving me the coal back that just seemed to kept multiplying...

Turned out to be the only way I won the game because after I started building the Utopia project Bismark sent .. literally... 30+ units at me... so I kept trading coal off for gold and it kept multiplying.....

kinda cheesy.. anyone see that bug yet or know what caused it?

 

[Marshall Thomas]

What is the "going rate" for a luxury resource in an "epic" speed game? In other words, how much will the AI usually offer if it's got enough money and wants the resource?

I've read 600 gold or 900 gold here on the forums. I believe that the deal last for an extra 15 turns on "epic" than it does on normal.

Does the AI ever pay gold-per-turn for luxury resources?

Does the AI pay more or less depending on how good or bad your relationship with them is? Thanks in advance