[R&F] Trailer 'Gladiator' Reference: Marcus Aurelius+Commodus as ruler(s)?

[Inlex]

So... It's possible that this has already been mentioned somewhere in the trailer thread, but watching the R&F trailer, the following resemblance really struck me:

The battle with Maximus and Tigris of Gaul from Gladiator is all but a mirror image of the gladiator fight in the trailer. The armor, the weapons, the shield, 'Maximus'' beard. Even the outcome of the fight. Also, Sean Bean's daughter behaves similarly to "Lucilla" (Commodus' Sister) in the scene.

The different types of gladiators did wear armor that was typical for their particular fighting style, so it's not extremely surprising that there are similarities there. However, there's enough that adds up in my opinion, to say that there's something more there.

My theory: There will be a new leader to Rome: Marcus Aurelius and/or Commodus? (Both movie emperors were fictionalized but were based on actual emperors that even co-ruled for a brief period.)

It would be very fitting to the "Rise and Fall" theme to have some sort of co-rulership for Rome in Marcus Aurelius and Commodus. Marcus Aurelius was considered to be the last of 'Five Good Emperors' and his death is often connected to the beginning of the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Similarly, Commodus is considered to be one of the worst, if not THE worst Emperor that Rome has ever seen, kickstarting the decline of the Empire.

Am I on to something here? Or am I reading too much in this...

=====
Edit: It was brought to my attention that Gladiator is from 2000

 

[nzcamel]

You're probably reading too much; but I like it!

 

[stealth_nsk]

We all have so high hopes for India alternative leaders, what we didn't consider Roman one The scene has high chances to actually mean it.

However, I don't think we'll have direct reference to the film:
1. Gladiator scenes are pretty universal.
2. We already have one of the five good emperors.
3. We didn't see the most famous Roman leader from Civ4, which makes him quite likely to return.

Yes, I'm speaking about Gaius Julius Caesar and he means more militaristic Rome.

 

[Arent11]

So. It's possible that this has already been mentioned somewhere in the trailer thread, but watching the R&F trailer, the following resemblance really struck me:

The battle with Maximus and Tigris of Gaul from Gladiator is all but a mirror image of the gladiator fight in the trailer. The armor, the weapons, the shield, 'Maxiumus'' beard. Even the outcome of the fight. Also, Sean Bean's daughter behaves similarly to "Lucilla" (Commodus' Sister) in the scene.

The different types of gladiators did wear armor that was typical for their particular fighting style, so it's not extremely surprising that there are similarities there. However, there's enough that adds up in my opinion, to say that there's something more there.

My theory: There will be a new leader to Rome: Marcus Aurelius and/or Commodus? (Both movie emperors were fictionalized but were based on actual emperors that even co-ruled for a brief period.)

It would be very fitting to the "Rise and Fall" theme to have some sort of co-rulership for Rome in Marcus Aurelius and Commodus. Marcus Aurelius was considered to be the last of 'Five Good Emperors' and his death is often connected to the beginning of the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Similarly, Commodus is considered to be one of the worst, if not THE worst Emperor that Rome has ever seen, kickstarting the decline of the Empire.

Am I on to something here? Or am I reading too much in this...

Well, from the trailer you could already predict Korea, Mongolia & Netherlands (I predicted Portugal, but since only a ship was shown, that was a bit ambiguous). So, yes, it might be worthwhile to go through the trailer & see whether we can predict more civs.

 

[Basileus Rhomaion]

I don't think we should take these trailers at face value, even though they do have some clues in them. In the game's launch trailer there were winged hussars, but Poland came later as a DLC.

 

[nzcamel]

The armour worn by Sean Bean in the trailer is amazingly similar to the Spaniards...

 

[Inlex]

The armour worn by Sean Bean in the trailer is amazingly similar to the Spaniards...

Yes, exactly. That immediately struck me the first time I saw the trailer. In another thread, I saw Eagle mention the fact that there were civs we could directly pull from the trailer, so I took a closer look. There were so many more similarities than I thought.

I don't think we should take these trailers at face value, even though they do have some clues in them. In the game's launch trailer there were winged hussars, but Poland came later as a DLC.

Yes, but most of the civs from the base game were already developed. The only reason Poland was added as DLC is a monetization one. They obviosuly already had created the civ, just didn't implement it yet. Same could be the case for Marcus Aurelius+Commodus.

We all have so high hopes for India alternative leaders, what we didn't consider Roman one The scene has high chances to actually mean it.

However, I don't think we'll have direct reference to the film:
1. Gladiator scenes are pretty universal.
2. We already have one of the five good emperors.
3. We didn't see the most famous Roman leader from Civ4, which makes him quite likely to return.

Yes, I'm speaking about Gaius Julius Caesar and he means more militaristic Rome.

I didn't consider the fact that Trajan was one of the five. That's a real concern. Unless..... it opens the door for Commodus solo. I can already hear the first look vid. "You built up the Roman Empire. How will you destroy it with Commodus? in Civilization VI: Rise and Fall"

 

[Basileus Rhomaion]

Yes, but most of the civs from the base game were already developed. The only reason Poland was added as DLC is a monetization one. They obviosuly already had created the civ, just didn't implement it yet. Same could be the case for Marcus Aurelius+Commodus.

That's likely, but a bit misleading. Poland might have been created prior to release, but during content lock. Content lock is a phase during a game's development when the game has already been finalized and submitted, but there is a considerable intervening period between that and the game's release where extensive testing is happening. During that time, most dev teams tend to be too focused on that one release, so they create a preemptive DLC instead of switching projects. That happens mostly after the trailer has been shown, especially given that the trailer of the game is also its opening cinematic.

That being said, Poland was released around a month post-release. Almost all of the initial DLCs were released with around 1 month buffer period from each other, so I would not be surprised if Poland was created after release given the popular reaction to the winged hussars. I have seen them deny it was already done pre-release on their FB page as well, so I'm not sure Poland was done prior like the Aztecs.

Of course, even with these taken into consideration and the trailer is indicative in the same manner, an alt leader for Rome or something else from the trailer could be a post-expansion DLC instead of all of them being in the expansion itself.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Unless..... it opens the door for Commodus solo. I can already hear the first look vid. "You built up the Roman Empire. How will you destroy it with Commodus? in Civilization VI: Rise and Fall"

That's sounds like a bit too far

That being said, Poland was released around a month post-release. Almost all of the initial DLCs were released with around 1 month buffer period from each other, so I would not be surprised if Poland was created after release given the popular reaction to the winged hussars. I have seen them deny it was already done pre-release on their FB page as well, so I'm not sure Poland was done prior like the Aztecs.

Jadwiga was on a leaked leaderboard in about half a year before the initial game release.

Also, development cycle for a DLC is a way more than 1 month.

 

[Basileus Rhomaion]

Jadwiga was on a leaked leaderboard in about half a year before the initial game release.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that, that makes sense.

Also, development cycle for a DLC is a way more than 1 month.

I guess it depends, I would imagine the biggest portion of their effort would go into the patch/bug fixing that came along with each DLC which does require more time.

 

[Leyrann]

I don't think Commodus is going to be a leader. Yes, he's closely connected to the Roman Empire's fall, but the thing is, everything went wrong during his rule. While the fall of empires is also part of the expansion, it does not make sense to play with someone who is related to said fall; you're playing a bad ruler, how are you supposed to do well then?

 

[Inlex]

I don't think Commodus is going to be a leader. Yes, he's closely connected to the Roman Empire's fall, but the thing is, everything went wrong during his rule. While the fall of empires is also part of the expansion, it does not make sense to play with someone who is related to said fall; you're playing a bad ruler, how are you supposed to do well then?

My thinking is more along the lines of: Marcus Aurelius during the 'golden ages', switches to Commodus during the 'Dark Ages'. Could be the other way around, to symbolise Commodus screwing things up when things are good and Marcus pulling things out of the muck of the Dark Ages.

I'd love to see such a mechanic. Possibly even choosing which leaders you will have during the dark or golden ages pre-game, which will also change the abilities, traits during that period of your game.

FIraxis, if you're hiring, don't hesitate to call ;-)

 

[Morningcalm]

Rome doesn't exactly need a second leader, but the inclusion of the gladiator fight in the trailer can't just be a throwaway (although noticeably Stonehenge is also featured and we also have that in the game already).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I feel like this might be stretching credibility. And the reason the fight scenes are similar is because Gladiator was the most influential "sword and sandal" movie in a generation.

 

[durfal]

The hint could also be : Tigris of GAUL.

 

[Our_DeCay]

Morituri te salutant!

Could also be that this part of the trailer is only pointing towards the 'bread and circuses' project, but on the other hand; more Rome is always a good thing! So, I'm hoping with you

Off topic; I thought the Gladiator movie was from the year 2000.

 

[Arent11]

Well, if I remember correctly:

(1) Pyramid(?) building scene - could be nothing? Or Maya/similar civs
(2) Gladiator scene - ave caesar, morituri te salutant? - mentioned here, maybe nothing, maybe a second leader for Rome?
(3) Siege/Princess scene - Korea
(4) Attackers on Horseback shooting arrows - Mongols
(5) Blue clad defenders - could be nothing
(6) Medieval Europe, epidemy - maybe nothing
(7) Compass, ships - Netherlands, Portugal? Conquest of the new world?
(8) Statue of Liberty - could be nothing
(9) French flag - well...
(10) WWII Netherlands - Netherlands
(11) Tearing down the Berlin wall - maybe nothing
(12) United nations/world assembly

 

[leandrombraz]

Regardless of the trailer, I do think we gonna get a "fall Emperor" for Rome, to contrast with Trajan. Marcus Aurelius sounds like a good choice, even if we already have one of the five good Emperors, I think it make sense to have two of them. Trajan is the peak of the golden age, he reached Rome's maximum territorial extent. Marcus Aurelius is the end of the golden age, he had to deal with the problems that would plague Rome in the coming century, so he got a taste of a dark age right before his death. Also, and this is important, Trajan was succeeded by Hadrian, who gave to roman emperors what they missed the most: a beard. Marcus Aurelius would give us a bearded Roman Emperor. We need one.

I think co-rulers is outside the realm of possibilities, not gonna happen. Same for a bad Emperor being added as a leader, I doubt they would go with Commodus, though him making cosplay of Hercules would be quite the sight, a part of me want this to happen.

I think Aurelian is also a good choice, a third century crisis emperor is ideal if they are really looking for an Emperor to contrast with Trajan. Julius and Augustus Caesar represents the fall of a republic and the rise of an empire, so I won't be surprised if they go for one of them, though it probably will be Julius since Augustus was in Civ V.

 

[leandrombraz]

Well, if I remember correctly:

(1) Pyramid(?) building scene - could be nothing? Or Maya/similar civs
(2) Gladiator scene - ave caesar, morituri te salutant? - mentioned here, maybe nothing, maybe a second leader for Rome?
(3) Siege/Princess scene - Korea
(4) Attackers on Horseback shooting arrows - Mongols
(5) Blue clad defenders - could be nothing
(6) Medieval Europe, epidemy - maybe nothing
(7) Compass, ships - Netherlands, Portugal? Conquest of the new world?
(8) Statue of Liberty - could be nothing
(9) French flag - well...
(10) WWII Netherlands - Netherlands
(11) Tearing down the Berlin wall - maybe nothing
(12) United nations/world assembly

Don't forget that the trailer is also making reference to other features they are adding. Statue of Liberty is there because they are adding it as a wonder, the Berlin wall is reference to the historical moments system, the plague is a reference to dark ages and so on.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Well, if I remember correctly:

(1) Pyramid(?) building scene - could be nothing? Or Maya/similar civs
(2) Gladiator scene - ave caesar, morituri te salutant? - mentioned here, maybe nothing, maybe a second leader for Rome?
(3) Siege/Princess scene - Korea
(4) Attackers on Horseback shooting arrows - Mongols
(5) Blue clad defenders - could be nothing
(6) Medieval Europe, epidemy - maybe nothing
(7) Compass, ships - Netherlands, Portugal? Conquest of the new world?
(8) Statue of Liberty - could be nothing
(9) French flag - well...
(10) WWII Netherlands - Netherlands
(11) Tearing down the Berlin wall - maybe nothing
(12) United nations/world assembly

#1 is actually a dam.
#5 is suspected to be Georgian warriors fighting against the Mongols.