I suspect, treasure convoys are now essentially land units, so you would need the Flotilla promotion to pack them into naval commanders.
Treasure Fleets post 1.2.2 - Any easier?
- Thread starter aggrobot
- Start date
I suspect, treasure convoys are now essentially land units, so you would need the Flotilla promotion to pack them into naval commanders.
That’s a stealth buff to Spain and also kinda historically accurate (Spain naval commanders get the flotilla promotion for free)
Tuvok694
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2002
- Messages
- 523
Settlement locations with treasure resources are too rare, too far away or the AI has already settled there. The last patch changed nothing in that regard in my opinion. Moving treasure convoys over land is not helpful when it takes them 15 or 20 turns to reach the homeland. Only way to get anywhere near those 30 treasure points is playing Songhai with several settlements on navigable rivers.
Until fairly recently i was finding several treasure resources on the small island between major ladmasses but in my last couple of games those have been absent so i haven't been able to complete the path, although i only missed out by 1 resource in my last game. I'm playing on a large continents plus map with long ages.
There's still a lot of variety in map gen. But yeah, I do think there needs to be a better way to get the convoys moving faster. Letting them pack into a fleet commander would help, or even if they got +1 movement on water with shipbuilding, and maybe a second move on water with shipbuilding 2, if I can float them 4 tiles a turn I'd be much less frustrated. Sure, something deep inland might take you 4 or 5 turns to get to the coast, but even those couple movement points would probably save a handful of turns overall and be a better balance.
I concur that the number of treasure resources on the island strips seems to have been toned down. And the convoys can move on land - good -, but they are way, way too slow.
I did complete the respective legacy path on online speed, but I had to focus primarily on this path, neglecting all the others.
I did complete the respective legacy path on online speed, but I had to focus primarily on this path, neglecting all the others.
tedhebert
Emperor
I have yet to play a game where I did not succeed in completing this path... but yes, you need to play the tech tree accordingly and play the cogs and settlers game early in explo to make it, but it's always been doable in every game I play.
But I DO put a lot of work in it... 3-4 cogs purchase, 4 settlers build as first priority and then find the islands with resources... they are few and far between but I always end up with at least 5 resource total and up to 10 with my 4 cities in distant lands (sometimes 5 if fate is nice with me).
Anyways it's nowhere close to antiquity culture path for wonders which I have completed only once, or explo science path which I'm at about 33% success at... This one is really doable all the time
But I DO put a lot of work in it... 3-4 cogs purchase, 4 settlers build as first priority and then find the islands with resources... they are few and far between but I always end up with at least 5 resource total and up to 10 with my 4 cities in distant lands (sometimes 5 if fate is nice with me).
Anyways it's nowhere close to antiquity culture path for wonders which I have completed only once, or explo science path which I'm at about 33% success at... This one is really doable all the time
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Different experiences, different play-styles, I suspect. I have not had any problem completing the Exploration Science path since I learned how to handle Specialists and Adjacencies. On the other hand I struggle to get a full 30 Treasure Resources sent home by the end of Exploration.
BUT I am beginning to feel that part of that is my own fault, my own favorite ways to play. I play on the biggest maps I can - Huge now, which means the far-scattered Resources are Really Scattered. When it takes a Treasure Fleet 10 turns or more to get back to the nearest Wharf, the time pressure gets really intense. Add to that that it may take an extra 5 - 10 turns of searching to find the resources in the first place, and in too many games I come up 2 - 7 resources short when the "Exploration Age is Ending" message comes up. I still usually manage to get at least 2 Economic Path points, but it is frequently the only path that I don't complete at the end of Exploration.
tedhebert
Emperor
I get ya !
Same thing for me and science path... to get them, you need all the policies that give adj bonuses + the one that give extra specialist, but I beeline other stuff first in the tech tree, cartography then shipbuilding, so I end up getting the ones for adj and specialist pretty late in explo... thus I struggle getting 40+ yield tiles....
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
One trick, which I learned from someone else's post on these Forums, is to prepare in the previous Age. Pick out which tiles you plan to build the Explo structures and quarters in, and put a few Specialists in them if you can afford it in Antiquity. Place whatever Wonders you get to build where they will enhance those selected tiles. Even a few steps early will make a huge difference in how fast you can grind out 40/tile.
Before I started that kind of early bird planning I struggled to get 3 - 4 40+ tiles. Now I can regularly get tiles up to 50 - 60 points and 5 or 6 of them by the end of Exploration Age. To be honest, it's become a little rote in that I take pretty much the same steps every game to finish the Legacy Path.
Things like that are why I really think the major improvement the game needs is multiple and rebalanced Legacy Paths, because too many of them are either extremely hard or numbingly easy once you know the 'tricks' to them and therefore are becoming boring.
I find the science one is one of the easiest, although obviously it's easier for some civs than others. You just need to get your big adjacency tile going, and then usually 3 specialists is enough. If you don't have any extra bonuses, then yeah, at some point late in the age you slot in those policy cards just to push the tile over. But I find usually between wonders and other stuff, it's not hard to get one tile that has a +4 adjacency. If you have that, then base yield+adjacency you're probably already sitting at 16 or 17 yields on the tile, and each specialist adds 8 yields, so you only need 3 specialists to finish it off.
But yeah, sometimes you need to prep earlier. So sometimes I might have a tile that I know I will overbuild with better buildings, it can be worth it to put the specialist there early even before it gets extra bonuses, just because I know when that Observatory will go down later, it will be one of my 5 tiles.
Tuvok694
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2002
- Messages
- 523
Patch 1.2.3 obviously changed nothing concerning treasure resources. It is still practically impossible to get suitable settlement locations to generate some legacy points.
At least (thanks to the new countdown) I know that my first and one and only treasure convoy is not going to reach its destination in the required 16 turns because the age ends in 10 turns.
At least (thanks to the new countdown) I know that my first and one and only treasure convoy is not going to reach its destination in the required 16 turns because the age ends in 10 turns.
I’ve played three games with 1.2.3 and always found enough treasure resources, often even 4 in close vicinity that could be exploited from one settlement. The continuity setting made this legacy path very easy, I finished a game with 80 points. And one even over 100, but that was as Songhai. I only had problems finding resources on one patch - was that 1.2.1?
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
I've only completed two Exploration Ages with the new patch, but comparing experiences from previously, I'd say the Economic Legacy is harder only in the sense that in no game did I see or find enough Treasure Resources for more than 1 - 2 Civs to complete he Legacy Path, and then only if they really pushed to settle them fast.
Caveat: I am playing almost entirely on Huge maps now, so that travel times are as long as they can be. That means also that a percentage of the Resources are a long way from the Homeland, and while I have found a couple of locations where one settlement could garner 4 resources, most sites can get only 1 - 3. That means you need at least 3, preferably more resource sites, and that also means at least one of them will be far, far away.
As an example, just today I completed an Exploration Age play, and I had 4 'resource' settlements in Distant Lands. One had 3 resources, one had 1, the other two had 2 each. Two of them were relatively close to my homeland ports/wharfs, the other two were literally, Half A World away. I finished the Legacy Path with an extra 15 - 20 points by the end of the Age, but that's because with Continuity I had a half dozen Cogs ready to go exploring from Turn One and so got the nearest two settlements planted and generating Treasure Fleets by the 10th turn - much, much faster than I ever managed under the old system where Cogs had to be built or bought first and then moved to the Edge of the Unknown to start exploring.
So I would say the latest patch/update made the Legacy Path much easier to complete, but that's because of the Jump Start that Continuity settings gets you. There are still nowhere enough Resources for everyone - it is even worse than the ratio of Civs to Wonders in Antiquity, especially playing on the large maps with 9 - 10 Civs total and long travel times for the Treasure Fleets. With 1 - 2 more Civs than the 'Standard' maps were designed for, I cannot help but think that the generation of Treasure Resources doesn't quite keep pace with all the people now looking for them, both AI and human.
@Boris Gudenuf map size and player count interaction might be an issue. I always play on standard, and maybe it doesn’t scale well with larger maps and more players.
Theoretically, there are enough treasure resources for everyone. I loaded up an end-of-exploration save on a standard-sized Continents+ map, and with around 2/3 of the distant lands explored, I counted more than 40 eligible treasure resources. So maybe 60 resources on the whole distant lands. In theory that is enough for the 5 homeland players (On a recent Pangea+ map, I made the goal with 8 resources hooked up). The problem is, that for some of those resources, you'll never get them home before the age ends. You would have to get there, steal the land from the natives, hook them up, wait for the convoys to appear and make the long way home. In that Continents+ game, I managed to hook up 31 treasure resources at the end of the age, but still only got 40 points in the legacy path while there were 10 convoys on the long ocean-crossing oceans and some more trying to even get to the ocean.
And this becomes worse on larger maps. Yes, it will have more treasure resources, but they will be on average even further away from your homelands. What it would need for the legacy path to become easier is not more treasure resources, but faster movement speed.
tedhebert
Emperor
Just played my first continent map game (large)… i always play continent+, fractal, archipelago or a few times pangea…
I must say this is the first time I’ve encountered this, but with no islands at all between the land masses, the resources were very few and far between… I got lucky on the east side because i found 6 unused resources that I was able to get with 3 towns that were close from each other,but on the west side I encountered a litteral wall… everything was already settled !
since I was on large map, the 3 DL towns were very far from my homeland cities and towns, so I had to cheese it a little a build a town on the very eastern edge of the HL continent so that the treasure fleet would not have to cross more than 10 tiles. Strained my settlement cap, but it was worth it !
It worked, but it really showed me that continent map is really at a big disadvantage for this path… I understand now why some people were claiming to never be able to get this done… I’m still at a 100% success for treasure fleet path in my game, but I won’t be taking continent map again cause I might not get lucky next time
I must say this is the first time I’ve encountered this, but with no islands at all between the land masses, the resources were very few and far between… I got lucky on the east side because i found 6 unused resources that I was able to get with 3 towns that were close from each other,but on the west side I encountered a litteral wall… everything was already settled !
since I was on large map, the 3 DL towns were very far from my homeland cities and towns, so I had to cheese it a little a build a town on the very eastern edge of the HL continent so that the treasure fleet would not have to cross more than 10 tiles. Strained my settlement cap, but it was worth it !
It worked, but it really showed me that continent map is really at a big disadvantage for this path… I understand now why some people were claiming to never be able to get this done… I’m still at a 100% success for treasure fleet path in my game, but I won’t be taking continent map again cause I might not get lucky next time
Doesn't feel like the AI really goes after them. My game just finished exploration and I think I got like 43 or so points? Second place was Genghis with 1. I found multiple spots to get to which had 4 treasure resources. This was on a small fractal map. Definitely felt like more treasure resources were around, and again, the fact that you can settle inland and get them, it definitely helps.
I just loaded up the last turn of Exploration on my latest game (Standard size Fractal map), and counted the treasure resources myself:
Island chains between continents: 7 treasure resources
Distand continent: 59 treasure resources, of which 8 were "available" (i.e. not settled by the civs on that continent - however before you would be able to scout and deploy settlers there, many of them would be taken)
Homeland continent: 54 treasure resources
The problem with completing this legacy path is particularly prevalent on the Continents (not Contents+) maps, where there's no island chains between the continents.
They really don't go after them. They do settle in distant lands, albeit slowly, but seem to show no priority of settling in spots with treasure resources. At the end of the age, the AI has multiple settlements in distant lands, the majority without treasure resources.
I just finished a game on a standard sized Fractal map, I got 58 treasure points, the next was Benjamin Franklin with 5 - no other AI got even a single point! Before they research shipbuilding, their treasure convoys get lost at sea all the time as well.
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