Treaty Of Bretigny

BCLG100

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Just a random question for you, i can see Steph having a lot to say on the matter (due to him being French and everything). For those of you that don't know it was a treaty made during the hundred years war between France and England- 1360. More info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brétigny

Anywhoo what i was meaning to ask is what do you think was the key reason for England being able to force such an over the top treaty out of the French. Admitedly this was arguably the zenith of Englands early campaigns after SLuys, Poitiers, Crecy, Calais etc and having both the Kings of France and Scotland in the tower. But which would you think was the most crucial reason?
 
Just a random question for you, i can see Steph having a lot to say on the matter (due to him being French and everything). For those of you that don't know it was a treaty made during the hundred years war between France and England- 1360. More info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brétigny

Anywhoo what i was meaning to ask is what do you think was the key reason for England being able to force such an over the top treaty out of the French. Admitedly this was arguably the zenith of Englands early campaigns after SLuys, Poitiers, Crecy, Calais etc and having both the Kings of France and Scotland in the tower. But which would you think was the most crucial reason?

When Edward tried to seize Paris in 1359 the French were not even able to raise an army to defend it.

So the French had no army left
The black plaque had just killed 1/2 the population
And the other 1/2 ( the Jacquerie ) was trying to kill them

Doesn't left you with many options
 
When Edward tried to seize Paris in 1359 the French were not even able to raise an army to defend it.

So the French had no army left
The black plaque had just killed 1/2 the population
And the other 1/2 ( the Jacquerie ) was trying to kill them

Doesn't left you with many options

Yeah but Edward wasn't able to secure Paris was he? he encountered resisitance.

The plague was a few years before and yes whilst devastating did not pick whether to kill French or English both sides suffered.
 
I'm not expert of this time period.

The French was soundly defeated at Crecy and Poitiers, the king was prisonner of the English.

But Edward III attempt to seize recent was a severe failure, so he was not precisely in a very strong position.

I think the main reason was to gain time. Charles V needed time ro secure his power (he was regent), he had to face the revolt of Etienne Marcel and the wealthy Parisian merchant, and Charles le Mauvais and the Jacquerie.

With the treaty, and gained 9 years of peace, to reorganzie the country and restore stability. He send Du Guesclin in Spain with the free company, to fight the English allies there, and gain a new ally for later.

The treaty of Bretigny tied the hands of the English, who could not start the war again without breaking it, and thus losing the many concessions they gained from France. The failure of Edward III last expedition showed that pushing their luck to far may have been unwise.

The treaty said that the authority of the English king on new territories would be effective only after the transfert of all the territories, and the English would then renounce his claim on the French crown.

But it was a trick from Charles V. He deliberately slowed the paiement of the ransom, and the transfert of the territories, so the English authority was not effective (and saying in the same time "but, I'm not doing it on purpose, look you still can't renounce your claim, it's upset me as well).

Why the time bought by this tactic, he reformed the tax and monetary system in the country (creation of the Franc), Du Guesclin defeated Charles le Mauvais (Cocherel), and when he went in Spain with the Free companies, the latest stopped to pillage France.

So in effect, Charles V maange to restore stability, and gain again the favour of the people. As Edward III made English the official language of the court (before that it was French), the anglophoby increased in France.

The English were stuck in Spain to help Peter, Charles secure a peace with the Holy Empire, and with Flanders.

When Charles V was strong enough, he started the war again inn 1368, but this time he did it in a way to have the law on his side. During 10 years, the army reformed by Du Guesclin will adapt new tactics and slowly regain territories, while the "Chevauchées" of the English made them less and less popular.

Overhall, the treaty of Brétigny can be seen as a wise move from the French regent, who promised a lot to the English to buy enough time to reform, reorganize and win later, while actually giving little.

To sum it up, the French's regent was smarter than the English kinds and was thinking on a long term strategy.

That's one of the strength of the French: the hability to be seriously defeated, by time, reorganize, reform, and come back to sit at the table of the winners at the end.

Look at the 100 years wars, the revolutionnary wars, WWI or WWII. Ok, it doesn't always work...
 
Aha! where as i am very good in this time period! :)

The treaty was not actually signed by Charles, it was signed by John who we have no reason to suggest (him being all chivalrous,the good etc) was trying to buy time, eventually the treaty would be rejected by Charles but the treaty itself was not a work of Charles.

Also i think perhaps i phrased my question wrong- what i mean was how were England able to demand such favourable terms?

I think it's more than Crecy and Poitiers- Sluys is not important really (to us its vital but to the Kings both were disapointed with it). It's the failings of the French rather than the success of the English that led to defeat. Sure the English army was well equipped etc but at points the French were just stupid!
Crecy-attaking up a hill with no rest
Sluys-anchoring your ships letting other ships come at you
Poitiers- letting your king get captured-thats number one on any book of what not to do.
French army's in general- still relied heavily on the feudal levy by this point-unlike the English which was becoming more and more contract based.

There are a few others but i forget them right now :)
 
The treaty was not actually signed by Charles, it was signed by John who we have no reason to suggest (him being all chivalrous,the good etc) was trying to buy time, eventually the treaty would be rejected by Charles but the treaty itself was not a work of Charles.
Parts of the treaty notably the "time buying" clause were added after suggestion from Charles.
 
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