Triple Your Governments MOD - v5 FULLY FUNCTIONAL

[Another Desk]

ComradeRed: I see no inherent problems in replacing the ideals of representative democracy and capitalism in civ3 vanilla with socialist ideals and theory.

However, as far as gameplay goes, I think you're starting to run the riskt of transforming the game into a crash course in marxist and socialist theory. This is a game, and balanced gaming should go before everything else, including political content.

An Industrial Base wonder? Automated Economy wonder? These are probably better illustrated by having a high shield production and lots of factories and manufacturing plants. Successful Nationalized Economy? What's this if not a civ with some kind of socialist government and a lot of happy people?

And what do you mean by Perfect Humanitarianism? Why do you need to be Marxist Communist to build it?

Green economy should have some sort of drawback. After all, we today have the technology for a green economy and we know it would be good. Still we're not implementing it. Why? Probably some kind of commercial drawback, or less food from each square -- you've decided not to push the environment as far as you can.

The anarchosocialist and (possibly) the marxist socialism governments could encourage the building of many smaller cities rather than a few megacities. Is this possible? Less coruption from some kind of improvment (local governing board) but less commercial gain than capitalism and corporativism? I'm out of my depth here -- I may be totally wrong on this view of anarchism and marxism socialism.

 

[Another Desk]

Oh, and one more thing...

The cultural bonus for The Communist Manifesto is rather big. Ok, I can buy that, considering the number of academics that use marxist theory, and the fact that the thing comes into play rather late, so it will probably generate less than Shakespear's and Sistine Chapel.

But shouldn't the name of the wonder be Das Kapital? I think that's what's been spawning all the theorizing, rather than the quick draft that is the Communist Manfesto (it rember reading somewhere that it was written in a day or two).

Otherwise, this seems lika a rather exciting mod. Looking forward to the finished version, ComradeRed.

 

[ComradeRed]

Well thanks for the feedback, that's what I was looking for. Unfortunately you can't have smaller cities be the effect of a government, or so it seems from the editor. I put high maintainance on the green economy to represent the loss in production, but I wasn't sure how to do it otherwise. I may change the Communist Manifesto to Das Kapital. And the Halocaust wonder may have to lose it's loss in culture, I think it's making the mod crash once it's built.

As far as the other wonders such as Industrial base, it's to postpone the happiness created by equal distribution until it's feasible. It is marxist philosophy, but I'm sure you'd prefer that to me making it automatically increase happiness (as if I could anyways, I can't). These are mainly meant to deal with the happiness, not with production. I wish I could do something to turn the happiness to just contentment, make some of the happy go to content, but I don't think I can. And it was to show how Russia worked to a point. They skipped the whole capitalist step and to keep from the poverty they started a more fascist like state. You of course have to create all of this before you can move on.... successfully.

And about the negative effects of corporativism. Back in the day the US realized the problems, people such as Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln. But today, saying that will get you a lot of problems, I was expecting to hear a few comments like Homer's.

But thank you for your input, I'll see if I can do something to improve all of this.

I will leave these government-based wonders in, but if you would rather not have them, remember that you can always delete them by opening the mod, small editing, and saving it.

 

[ComradeRed]

ok, for version 5 when it comes out, there will also be 2 new luxury resources, and gold may become a luxury.

Tobacco
Marijuana

I don't personally smoke marijuana, but you know it would be traded.

 

[Kerk12]

Would it be possible for a civilization to switch governments without the player having chosen to do so. This is what happens quite often in real life, societies begin to support a certain ideal, then some of the people work their way into the government, and before you know it, were all hailing on our knees to "Grand CEO Bush!" The same is true in many countries, the Soveit Union could not have been mmore of an ideological society in its beginings. And one more question, what would you call China's government?

 

[Mikhail Bakunin]

If you'd want to include a minority perspective within anarchism, you could try including green anarchism (aka primitivism). I don't have civ3 (yet), so I don't know what parameters you could change. I guess science would be zero (or negative if that was possible) - the idea would be to return to a tribal society, by reducing population and production. Maybe limiting cities sizes to 2 and production to around 1 shield?

The only reason one would want green anarchism would be if resources were limited - something that I suspect civ 3 fails to include. According to theory, in the long run (say 300+ years from now), only a green anarchist society would be sustainable.

Real anarchism would abolish the state. At a minimum your people should refuse to fight any wars (except class war), unless attacked. Ideally they'd cross borders, fomenting social revolutions in other states, and you'd have a global revolution that would abolish states and in a sense everyone, regardless of nationality, would win!

For anarchism, I'm not sure how you could represent mutual aid. It seems like it could be represented as an increase in trade, but anarchist societies have traditionally been self-reliant - and thus they'd have less trade.

I'm very interested in testing out this mod pack once I get a chance!

 

[ComradeRed]

well, China is simply closest to soviet communism, though it's becoming more of a mix of individual and state capitalism. Perhaps I'll add that in a later version.

Green anarchism like that isn't possible. You can't limit it like that.

and no, you can't be forced into changing governments unless it collapses (such as I know happend in democracy in civ's one and two. I deleted democracy for this mod, and it's all I'm playing.)

 

[ComradeRed]

ok, so it turns out the mod crashes if YOU, not the computer, build one of the wonders that I added. I think it's because it has no pic, does anyone know how to make the pics for this?

 

[Qelebex]

check plutarck's guide in the guide's forum... it is explained there

 

[joespaniel]

Comrade Red - Great work! Please keep it coming.

Appreciate you and others sharing your work.

EDIT - Suggestion: I would use "opium" instead of "mj" for a luxury. It just sounds better, and would be all inclusive.

Too bad you cant make a civ with the opium luxury suffer a penalty, like lethargy.

Tobacco is very appropriate. Good luxury item.

 

[ComradeRed]

If you look at the wonder it's not glorified at all. I hate the halocaust just as much as you do. But while I was going around trying to find wonders that were government related, I thought the halocaust certainly was a wonder. Don't you wonder how heartless people could be to do this? It is a wonder, and it is a major world event. There was no intention to glorify it in the least. Once I get the Civilopedia entries in, it will be bashed left and right.

 

[slightlymarxist]

"Still, I love USA, and I live in israel so I thank uncle sam every morning"

Well, that explains your feelings about the holocaust.

I agree with your objections to the holocaust as a World Wonder. I does seem slightly out of place, and besides, ethnic cleansing exists as a game function already doesn't it?

Perhaps the holocaust could be replaced by "Unified Nationality" or "Perfect Ethnic Unity", which was what the nazis (presumably) attempted to achieve.

Just a thought.

 

[Caligula]

I don´t agree with the idea of calling the Shoah/Holocaust a wonder. In the first place, wonders are supposed to invite the admiration of all of the civs, and this one would do the reverse. Secondly, the mass killing of people in the east (approximately 20 million, most of whom were Russians) is arguably what allowed Stalin to eventually mount a defence, and go on to win, so it wasn´t any good for Germany either. There´s also the problem that the Soviet and Chinese Communist regimes were even more murderous, so perhaps more `deserving´ of this `wonder´.

If you want your fascism government to represent National Socialism, some actual wonders might be zero-unemployment (though this could also apply to the Soviet regime), civic order, the motorway (Autobahn) or the Volkswagen. Another possibilty might be something to do with military technology, but German superiority in military technology had nothing to do with National Socialism (which may have even regressed it), so I don´t think that would be such a good idea.

I think a more general fascism government would be better, considering, for instance, Italy, Spain, Chile and others. None of these regimes were particularly murderous (all far less so than each of the three Allied powers), and neither did any reproduce the military-technological developments of NS Germany. The most significant aspect of most fascist regimes was the ability to resist Marxism/Communism, which other regimes were more vulnerable to, and to maintain civic order in the face of this threat. That would make them similar to capitalism, but with a better ability to prevent disorder/revolts, and perhaps with a diplomatic penalty of some kind.

As a general comment, while I like the idea of adding more governments, I´m not so sure about the fanciful ones that have never existed in reality, and are simply based on perhaps unsound theories.

 

[Kerk12]

Heres my idea for a holocaust replacement. I think that the lighter than air-ship era should be represented in civ iii, so instead of the holocaust include the Hindenburg. No matter how hard you try, its hard to find anything thats really wonderous that comes out of fascist governments, but if I really had to choose I would pick zeppelins.

I think that you should be able to build zeppelins as units, but thats one other technological marvel the people at Firaxis failed to include. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen zeppelins, or blimps for that matter, in any Civ game. The biggest advantage of blimps as a unit is obvious any way, they wouldn't have re-fuel every turn.

But back to the topic of wonders, I think its odd to include the Volkswagon into the game as a wonder without at least including The Ford Motor Company, or Ford's Assembly Line. I was also very surprised to not see the internet in the game, I think thats one of mans greatest achievments. It also is odd to include the holocaust without other historic events, because the holocaust is an event, not a structure.

Im not trying to put down this fantastic mod or anything, if I had the dedication to do what these modders do for the game, who knows what I could do. This is just my two cents.

 

[ComradeRed]

Well here's my take on the whole halocaust debate. I don't personally believe that a wonder has to be a good thing. It only has to have a significant effect on the society. The Halocaust, however horrible, had an effect, and a significant one at that. It had both positive and negative effects, but it did effect the society. I also added the microsoft monopoly which I think is repulsive and I also find the stock market to be immoral which was already in the game.

If you don't want the halocaust there is a simple solution, doubleclick on the mod, go to edit rules..... improvements. Then go down to the Halocaust and the delete button on the screen. Then close the rule editing window and save the mod. Then it will not be there anymore. I personally would like it there so some other society can build it, then you can attack that city and burn it to the ground.

It's there and will be set once I fix the graphics, thanks to Quelebex for his help there, and you can easily delete it if you want. Perhaps I'll just create a version without the halocaust in it to save you time. But remember that you can modify the mods. Nothing is set in stone.

 

[mfauzi]

Before I go on, I'm just gonna say that I'm not pro-american, neither am I anti-american. More or less neutral. And I find the holocaust horrible too. I find all forms of ethnic clensing (whether in great amounts like the holocaust or in milder forms) to be an atrocity.

However, they're part of our history. Like it or not, we need to show how bad it was. We can't censor history. Furthermore, this is just a game. If you choose to build the holocaust in the game, this does not mean anymore people are going to get killed. It's just virtual people in a strategy game. It does however, serve as a reminder on how bad it was.

Though millions have died in the holocaust, millions more have died elsewhere during the WW2. The people here (right in the south-east asia and east asia) too have suffered under the hand of another axis government.

 

[ComradeRed]

Homer, the US does need to be criticized, nothing that Iceblaze said was wrong. And don't censor in my thread. Aid certainly is good, but we do a lot of damage too. So, let him speak.

 

[miltonfriedman]

Comrade,

good job. But, why holocaust? Why stop there? Because we can see Lenin's socialist policy, Mao's Great Leap Forward or Cultural Revolution, or how about America's extermination of indigenous population?

Thus, I think you have to set up some criteria- namely, set up wonders that provide positive aspects of the game, in terms of both history and its benefits.

But, all in all, great work!

 

[ComradeRed]

why build the halocaust if it's a bad thing? Why because I want to burn the damn thing to the ground. but perhaps I'll just change it to a city improvement, concentration camp to make it more generic, or better yet, do both. The halocaust can create a concentration camp in EVERY city. of course these camps will have the negative effects. But damn it..... it gives you pretense to war. You need a good reason? Because these bastards built the Halocaust.

 

[miltonfriedman]

Well, I am a bit confused over the comment on "these bastards". But, the idea of camp that have some adverse effects may not be that bad of an idea. It may even be akin to those structures in Alpha Centauri.

Good thinking.