What if it was a civic instead?
Tripped's minor bugfixes
- Thread starter TrippedOnACloud
- Start date
What if it was a civic instead?
Colosseum comes at roughly the same time as Arena, and if you are "unlucky" enough to build Flavian Amphitheatre, say goodbye to the Statue.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Include an OR Flavian Ampitheatre.
I once programmed a way to get the code to check all replacement buildings but it was far too slow. Another method may be possible to speed it up but man... infinite projects y'know?
TrippedOnACloud
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Messages
- 294
Most replacements come far enough apart on the tech tree that it's tough or outright impossible to get the later version before the earlier one. Arena/Colosseum are a bit of an unusual case because Construction and Combat Sports are very close together, but Construction is a far more valuable tech overall, making it quite likely that you skip Arenas altogether by researching Construction first.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Turn it off with a judge, like other world views. Not sure how the AI handles this though.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Judges aren't used for that as far as I know. You need a GP or in the case of Slavery a Zoro missionary.
TrippedOnACloud
Warlord
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Judges do have the ability to turn off Slavery worldview. That said, I don't think I've ever actually turned off Slavery. The benefits just outweigh the costs by too large a margin. Come to think of it, I should probably put together some events for slave revolts/rebellions, so there's more of a risk to running Slavery.
Additional todo: Great Admiral - Ahmad ibn Majid needs fixing, displays as TEXT_KEY_etc.
Oh, also, do I have SVN commit access yet?
Additional todo: Great Admiral - Ahmad ibn Majid needs fixing, displays as TEXT_KEY_etc.
Oh, also, do I have SVN commit access yet?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I'll set it up for you as soon as I can.
I've been thinking about that aspect of slavery and how it seems it's never good to remove it. I think we need to have something even better that all those freed slaves can do for the nation and city to balance that out. Make it so that you get to further leverage the fact that you've USED slavery all this time but at some point you get to really 'cash in' and get even better from all those slaves made free. At the moment, it does hurt, and something isn't right about that.
Maybe it could have something to do with the concept recently floated here of severely limiting employment options in cities with the specialists allowed and having the laborer and unemployed classes rather than just a citizen. Perhaps ultimately freed slaves can be even more beneficial as long as the cities have the capacity to benefit from the population surge freeing slaves can bring, whereas when slavery is new, earlier in the game, capturing lots of free population would just lead to a LOT of unemployed or something along those lines.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I always intended for slave specialist to not only increase unhappiness with techs but also reduce commerce. Slaves can't buy stuff so you have fewer people to sell stuff to so the government gets less taxes. When I set it up you could not adjust specialist yields by tech.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Is that still impossible? I don't recall if any work has been done on that.
Good thoughts. IMO, the biggest hit you take (and I mean WOW) to eliminate slavery is production loss. This could also thus mean gold and/or research loss in cities that are set on those processes.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I don't know, I have not looked recently.
As machines become more used the slaves
should be going down also, I suppose.edit there is nothing in the schema for specialists to have commerce and yields changed by tech, I just checked.
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Sure, as long as those machines are GIVING the benefits it's replacing, which it doesn't at the moment. All those specialists and buildings constructible with captives... to lose all that, it's devastating.As machines become more used the slaves
I kinda thought that was the case. Wouldn't be hard but would be time consuming and will have to wait for a while before I could address that.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I could make counter buildings for each of the existing
buildings auto build if you slavery on but that seems excessive and very hard to manage. You should be getting some money from the loss of the buildings but then money is not an issue in C2C.Don't worry about it. I am going to put the downside on the free building that is used to make the World View not a national wonder. It will mean that all cities will get a downside which is more appropriate for a world view.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
From what I was hearing, that's not the case anymore. I'm not sure where we stand there now but while this is HARD to balance properly, it will eventually need to be done to keep the rest of the game properly balanced out.
TrippedOnACloud
Warlord
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- Jun 28, 2012
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- 294
Adding to todo: Lake and Lake Shore terrains aren't included in the valid terrain types for the Beacon/Lighthouse Reef/Coral features.
I like the idea of increasing downsides on the Slavery autobuild with advancing tech, but I think we need to be careful to maintain a case of "Slavery is still productive, just not AS productive as free citizenry". Also, I think that the downsides to slavery should focus more on social, commercial and scientific aspects rather than on raw production. Great Person rate too. I don't think there should ever be a point where the decision to abandon slavery is 100%.
In my latest Deity/Nightmare game, money was most definitely an issue until mid-classical or so, but by early medieval, it's no longer a concern. Mind, by this point I control something like 50% of world population and 25% of world land area, with another 10-15% of land area on my continent that I've intentionally left unsettled but cut off from AI access. Also, by this point, the massive stacking up of Great Military Instructors (from Heroes) and slaves in my capital is well underway, as is religion stacking.
I like the idea of increasing downsides on the Slavery autobuild with advancing tech, but I think we need to be careful to maintain a case of "Slavery is still productive, just not AS productive as free citizenry". Also, I think that the downsides to slavery should focus more on social, commercial and scientific aspects rather than on raw production. Great Person rate too. I don't think there should ever be a point where the decision to abandon slavery is 100%.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Historically buildings that could be built were not because it would take work away from slaves which would lead to revolts. All the grain mills and a number of production buildings come under that but I will be making a list. So far I have only done increased unhappiness from tech advancements and it is all done on the Slavery active building, no need for more buildings so far.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Extremely well put. I feel exactly the same but could never have phrased it so simply and yet completely.
Very interesting. Sounds like it will be an improvement to balance at least.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
When does it become a non factor in your play and what causes it to be elevated to the point it is no longer a concern? I need details for data collection versus broad statements.
JosEPh
