Triremes and Ironclads Theory

[troytheface]

Triremes have an advantage over every other unit in the game in their singularity of purpose. Attaching a Great Leader to a fleet (a galley and a couple triremes) gives your empire a blockade and sea domination over your neighbor.
There is also a quest "Control the Seas" or something and this either adds more power to your ships or commerce to harbors if completed.
Upgrade from Triremes to Caravels to Submarines. (xtra movement- tactical nuke/Spy delivery)
Use Ironclads ,one of the most underrated units in the game, to supplement your Caravals and these can be upgraded to Destroyers.
They can also hold the line on a sea attack phalanx-like.
The optimal time to invade by sea is with triremes/galleys then submarines/transports- a natural promotion progression that ensures the strongest and most movement allowed for these units.

 

[r_rolo1]

Too bad that even work boats can dodge ironclads ...

 

[troytheface]

You surround your port and guard whales and crab and fish with Ironclads. (and a coastal city with the Heroic Epic can potentially add to movement) The reason they are relevant is that you are utilizing your Triremes to follow the Submarine path - while the Ironclads follow the Destroyer route.
In the battle for the seas you should rely on Ironclads and Airships for coastal defense.

 

[r_rolo1]

Static defense, troy? I wasn't expecting that from you

 

[Stewie0416]

Lets see, Ironclads come in about Steel rite? They are 12 stngh. BUT, unless you want to use those against 30 stngh destroyers, i suggest you tech railroads-combustion. Which is roughly in normal speed noble for me is about 10-15 turns you can easily have a ship more than double the stngh, why even use them? Also, what about SotL and Frigs?

 

[troytheface]

"10-15 turns you can easily have a ship more than double the stngh, why even use them? Also, what about SotL and Frigs?"
That is many turns with no Levee and the Ironclad is a better graphic.
Economy of attack suggest that an amphibeous invasion with mace or rifle or grenadeers and cannon to another continent will die around the time of Frigates. Whereas a Trireme/Galley attack with horse and sword has a much higher chance of success.
The next best window for an expeditious assault is subs with tactical nukes and transports. In the age of Frigates, have Ironclads, they sank frigates all over the place in the civil war.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I think you need to post a public game to prove your critics wrong troythe face, kind of like obsolete did with his wonderspam economy.

 

[Stewie0416]

That is many turns with no Levee and the Ironclad is a better graphic.

First off, Better graphic? huh? second, although Levee is a good building its not worth putting of naval dominance. Levees are exactly gonna help that much when Monty decides to send 10 Galleons your way.

Economy of attack suggest that an amphibeous invasion with mace or rifle or grenadeers and cannon to another continent will die around the time of Frigates

First, you have a few spelling errors but who cares, were all human. Second, thats why you bring along a nice litter thing called a Ship of the Line. It has a 50% bonus against frigs.

Whereas a Trireme/Galley attack with horse and sword has a much higher chance of success.

im gonna use personal experience with this one. Lets say you decide to send a good early size stack of 10 swords, 2 spears, 6 axes, and just for fun 4 amphib elephantsmischief That would take roughly 11 galleys which translates into 550. Why not instead use those crucial early hammers for a wonder like, oo maybe Pyramids? ( which btw is only 500 hammers)

The next best window for an expeditious assault is subs with tactical nukes and transports. In the age of Frigates, have Ironclads, they sank frigates all over the place in the civil war.

By Civil War you mean American Civil War right? Ok, lets takes this one apart. What are u exactly saying here? You should escort transports with subs? Also, Tactical Nukes are good but they cause global warming which in my experience is extremely annoying. And the thing about frigates, guess what, they can move out to sea! Frigs have 4 movement pts. IC only have 2 and cant move out to sea! Its pretty much useful for like 10-20 years depending on the speed.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I'm thinking of writing Defendo's guide to counter Amphibious war elphants and such.

 

[Stewie0416]

I'm thinking of writing Defendo's guide to counter Amphibious war elphants and such.

I bet you just gave TtF another great idea

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well he could find the game theory Nash Equilibrium and then we would all have to sit up and take notice.

 

[futurehermit]

This would be great if the AI was even half-decent at naval warfare

 

[pigswill]

I'm surprised that troytheface never needs to launch an intercontinental invasion before submarines. I guess by that time he's upgraded his elephants to amphibious gunships.

 

[ScottyB]

"they sank frigates all over the place in the civil war"

I can only think of two frigates sunk by an ironclad in the American Civil War, the USS Cumberland, rammed by the CSS Virginia and the USS Congress, which had surrendered to the Virginia while the Cumberland was sinking. The Virginia sank the Congress with a hot shot (A cannon ball heated in the ship's boiler) after they thought they received musket fire from the Congress after she had surrendered. It turned out that Union soldiers at Sewells Point (The site of present day Norfolk Naval Station) had fired at the ironclad as she steamed up the Elizibeth River. Am I missing another frigate or frigates?

Scott

 

[mirthadir]

A much better shot is to get privateers before the AI has astro. Give your privateer a GG and the leadership promo (whichever one gives you double XP gain). Park it with a few friends in enemy water. I have gotten over 100 xp on a privateer thusly before (poor isolated Shaka), but it is almost an exploit. With enough promos (charismatic is ownage for this) your privateer can poach frigates. Assuming you got circumnavigation you can play hit and run all day long up until the oil navies come out.

Not only do you decimate enemy navies, but you get free GG points in peacetime.

 

[troytheface]

"I can only think of two frigates sunk by an ironclad in the American Civil War, the USS Cumberland, rammed by the CSS Virginia and the USS Congress, which had surrendered to the Virginia while the Cumberland was sinking."

Perhaps, but the Manassas (described as a hellish machine) took on the whole Mississipi fleet and damaged the USS Mississippi and USS Brooklyn and the Hunley sank the USS Housatonic .
If one is fond of grenadeer era attacks than i suggest a coastal invasion with Galleons and Ironclads backed by airships as the superior method.

 

[Stewie0416]

"I can only think of two frigates sunk by an ironclad in the American Civil War, the USS Cumberland, rammed by the CSS Virginia and the USS Congress, which had surrendered to the Virginia while the Cumberland was sinking."

Perhaps, but the Manassas (described as a hellish machine) took on the whole Mississipi fleet and damaged the USS Mississippi and USS Brooklyn and the Hunley sank the USS Housatonic .
If one is fond of grenadeer era attacks than i suggest a coastal invasion with Galleons and Ironclads backed by airships as the superior method.

Ironclads cant go in the ocean, so unless you target is pretty close by i doubt you could go invade some1 with ironclads.

Spoiler :

PS, Grenadeer is spelled Grenadier and Mississipi is spelled Mississippi

 

[pigswill]

Economy actually suggests that as frigates, SotL, cannon and grenadiers all form part of the chem-milsci-steel tech triad then that is the most effective time to attack, assuming you can beeline effectively and manage your economy well enough to get a decent size army and navy before the AIs catch up. Given that the AIs will tend to chase corporation and democracy around that period its not as difficult as it may appear.

 

[troytheface]

The ol Ironclad naval invasion with Airship cover is much like the Ironclad itself in its being hyper specific. Not the best time to invade era wise if you ask me for a variety of reasons.
Curiassers and Grenadears are the best bet in a pre-invasion build up and this makes for an unweildy tech path.

 

[Stewie0416]

The ol Ironclad naval invasion with Airship cover is much like the Ironclad itself in its being hyper specific. Not the best time to invade era wise if you ask me for a variety of reasons.
Curiassers and Grenadears are the best bet in a pre-invasion build up and this makes for an unweildy tech path.

That is many turns with no Levee and the Ironclad is a better graphic.
Economy of attack suggest that an amphibeous invasion with mace or rifle or grenadeers and cannon to another continent will die around the time of Frigates. Whereas a Trireme/Galley attack with horse and sword has a much higher chance of success.
The next best window for an expeditious assault is subs with tactical nukes and transports. In the age of Frigates, have Ironclads, they sank frigates all over the place in the civil war.

Is it me or does it seem Troy just contradicted himself?