True Multitreaded semi succession game, Immortal or deity.

[Mutineer]

Ok, Round 11 closed with 3 saves.

1) Mutineer..Mutineer
Assemply line - physics-facism
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5044532&postcount=205
Finish Washington.
research:
Electricity-Radio-Mass Media(4)
Thinking diplomatic or try last stand military agains Mounty, but diplomatic first.


2) Mutineer..Mutinee-Godel...Godel
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5059368&postcount=213
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5071567&postcount=218
Assembly line-Astronomy-communism-physics-electricity-Radio(x)

Figting Mounty, who declared.
Viky is up to something.

3) Mutineer...Mutineer- Shyuhe- Shyuhe
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5049613&postcount=208

Mass media-communism.
Shot down research.
UN in 4, hope to win diplomatically.
Next Round 12
20 turns
Expected end 18XX AD

 

[shyuhe]

I turned off research to rush buy UN. I think I can shave a few turns off of it that way. I will switch back to HR after that to please Alex though (and also turn research back on).

Mutineer - I think you're confusing the two succession games. It's Monty in this game, not Shaka.

 

[Mutineer]

Mutineer - I think you're confusing the two succession games. It's Monty in this game, not Shaka.

Opss yes, I seems do.

They in a way are simular, change Shaka to mounty in my save

 

[Mutineer]

I turned off research to rush buy UN. I think I can shave a few turns off of it that way. I will switch back to HR after that to please Alex though (and also turn research back on).

First check if he running his favorite civic himself.
You only get diplomatic bonus if he runnning it to. That is a problem with diplomatic win and early favorite civics, you useally can not use this bonus because civ is not runnning it any longer itself.

 

[shyuhe]

I have checked. I have a +3 from favorite civic bonus right now (I'm in HR because Alex asked me to adopt it at some point). Basically, the only thing I'm worried about right now is Monty doing something stupid as Mao is doing space, and Alex is... Alex with no power.

 

[shyuhe]

ok. I finished my set.

Spoiler :

Monty gave me quite a scare halfway through the turnset. I finished the UN (rush buying for about 5k gold). In the meantime, Monty adopted theocracy. Uh oh.... Check the diplo screen, and see that Mao is his worst enemy. I cancel my DP with both Mao and Alex, as I can't afford to be dragged into a war (and this also makes Monty friendly with me again).

I shop around Mass Media to Mao and Alex to pick up communism and fascism. Monty declares on.... Mao! I bribe him off the turn he attacks so that he only gains one size 7 city. Then just a few more enters and the diplo victory! I also teched artillery, although honestly, Monty could take over the whole world if he wanted to.
View attachment 147598

It was a pretty close vote - apparently you don't need 66% to win. It looks like 62% from my numbers...

View attachment 147597

View attachment 147599

I may have played past the turn end date but it felt so close so I kept on going...

 

[Mutineer]

I played on weekend, Put in pictures and save.

Spoiler :

Well, I continue with peace.
Finish mass media, revolted to US/Emancipation. I need shields now.
Went mass media-rail roads(for shields)-Computers
Idea was, I do not think I really can pull it off, but I did not want to close space victory yet, and i will get a little benefit to research out of it.
Computers-Railroads- artilery
I simple need some contemporary army and all now running around with tanks.
Darn, how mach I am behind.

Mounty finished Quin and Alex declared and finished Washington.
So, diplomacy now extrimelly simple, me, Mounty and Alex.
And Alex love mounty, when mounty love Alex.

If Alex finish UN he probably can get diplomatic win. I am unsure can I win diplomatically. I send cavalry to scount mounty. He pillaged Ex Quin land hurd, but now refarming and building on top of raised cities. I am afraid he will have bloking minority.

I wanted teching space or war option open, so I did not farm over stuff. I do not think it would help, as Mounty now increasing his population fast.

So, I did not trade Mass media. Alex self researched it 0ne turn befor I finished UN. Mounty still did not had it, but offering just a little money for it.

So, I sell it to him for his gold.
Arty-Fligth(x). Additional prerequisites and I will need aeroports in case of war. Land border is small, but sea invasions are posible.

I am more and more in favor to try one last war agains Mounty and win by backdoor domination. What is interesting that if I take all Alex land I probably could do win diplomatically. Alex culture stopping 7 of my cities to grow. Problem is Mounty power is such that I would need any help posible and if he backstub me when I taking on Alex game is over.

My current army is patetic, absolute rifflemens/cannons.
win diplomatically. Alex culture stopping 7 of my cities to grow.

So, I am not entirelly optimistic, but still have hope.

I did build bouth of wanders, and here result of first voite:

Tech situation.

Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Deity_MSG_AD-1860.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Mutineer]

Spoiler :

Congrats shyuhe.

To be true I often so mach stick in domination direction I am not that good in closing down on diplomatic win.

Now if you want you can try to play form some other save I actially believe it is posible with correct strat to beat Mounty army.
Or you can try some early one.

 

[shyuhe]

Spoiler :

Mutineer, How far advanced is Monty in your game? He had mech infantry, gunships and tanks in my game (he also had enough of an army in his core cities to completely overrun Mao as I found out a few turns later after some scouting). If you have artillery, then I think you have a chance (I did not tech artillery until after the UN, so I couldn't do domination or backdoor domination). Also, I couldn't convince Alex to declare on either since his army was too small. Maybe I'll tinker from yours or Godel's save to see how those play out.

 

[Godel]

Spoiler :

I decided I would have to go for diplomatic victory. Vicky declared war on Alex and immediately Mao declared war on Vicky.

I sat out the war with Monte and gave him peace for tech. Then I saw that I could bribe him to declare against Vicky, and did so. I also decalred to get mutual struggle bonuses with all three civs. This brought Monte from cautious to pleased.

Eventually Vicky started losing too many cities to Monte, so I bribed him to declare peace, as his population was getting too high (he is now no. 1).


Research: Electricity, Arty (1 turn, then could trade the rest with Alex), Radio, Railroad (traded), Mass Media (1 turn left).

I have build Iron Works, and next turn will start building UN.

I can bribe Monte to declare against Ghandi, but the timing will be crucial. I need Monte's pop to dip below Ghandi's for a diplomatic victory to pull off. If enough pillaging goes on this may be possible but I am not sure. I think I left bribing Monte to declare peace on Vicky too late.

I think it will be necessary to instigate another war against Gandhi anyway, as he has the space elevator and more than half the space ship parts. Luckily Monte's power is quite high so the war may go on for some time. It will certainly be a distraction to space ship building.

I almost forgot to mention that Gandhi has built Manhattan. Does the AI every use Nukes in inter AI wars? That would be one way of gettings Monte's pop down.

I have been gifting Alex old units again to keep his power rating high enough.

When it comes closer to having a UN, I will probably have to farm over everything.

Victory conditions:


Power graph:


I'm still not sure, though, when the AI will vote for you. Monte/Mao both pleased and Alex is friendly and none of them like Gandhi. But if the vote is between me and Gandhi, is there still a possibility that Mao/Monte will abstain?

View attachment Deity MSG AD-1860.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Godel]

Congrats on your win, shyuhe!

 

[Mutineer]

Goidel, I really not that mach specialists in diplomacy and space victory. When playing on immortal I tend to get domination somewhere around tanks. On deity it seeems does not work, so I am a bit out of my depts.

If I remember correctly last time I won space victory it was a monarch game So, I can not really give mach advice about later game, just have my imagination.

 

[shyuhe]

Godel, I think if they're at war with the other leading vote getter, you have a much better chance of receiving their vote. If they're at peace and you're pleased with them, you may not get their vote. I've heard you need around +8-10 minimum to guarantee a vote but I'm not 100% certain here. I generally try to rely only on friendly civs.

Do you have access to police state? The other option is to enter police state and convince Monty to adopt it - you'll get a favorite civic bonus (and state property for Mao). I hope that helps. I will probably try picking up your save after this set and try my luck for a second diplo win.

 

[Mutineer]

Ok, Round 12 closed with 3 saves.

1) Mutineer..Mutineer
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5074515&postcount=227
research:
Computers-railroad-arty
Diplomatic does not work, Mounti increase his population very fast, he has a good land.
Will attempts military win.

2) Mutineer..Mutinee-Godel...Godel
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5083841&postcount=230

Created WWIII, has god chance for diplomatic win.

3) Mutineer...Mutineer- Shyuhe- Shyuhe
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5074513&postcount=226
Dimplomatic win, our congratulations!
Next Round 13
20 turns
Expected end 18XX AD

 

[Godel]

Spoiler :

Ghandi's unfortunately, not mine.

Bribed Monte to attack Ghandi for Radio. He accepts. I continue the war against Vicky for diplo points with Mao and Alex.

Mass Media comes in. I can't get Combustion through trade so research Combustion for 1 turn and now Alex comes to me wanting to trade.

I'm watching the population competition all the time. Monte is just ahead of me in pop, but Ghandi captures Texo-whatever-hucan at the beginning of the war and I am now ahead. UN in 11 turns.

Monte asks me to join the war. This a big decision. I should have said yes but I was afraid of Gandhi's pillaging machine and also I couldn't afford to lose a city (pop competition is fierce between Monte and I). Also I was building UN in a city next to Gandhi's borders. So I declined. Monte drops to Cautious.

But 2 turns later... Ghandi builds the UN. And I am elected SecGeneral.

I am now farming over towns and running 20% culture to grow pop. Researched Fascism, gave it and Mass Media to Monte for free. We both adopt police state and Monte is back to pleased.

But will it be enough? First Diplo Vote: Gandhi votes for Ghandi, Monte and Vicky abstain, while everyone else votes for me. I need Monte's vote to win.

So I prepare for war, move all my troops to border cities and declare. In the next turn, the option is given to move a motion for DiploVictory. I click enter, waiting to see how the vote goes and...


Hmmmm. Well, I played the next two turns to see the outome of the vote, and Monte still abstains.

I think I will replay this turnset , do things a little differently (e.g. prepare for war when Monte asks me to join him) and see what happens.

The game save when the results of the second diplo vote known:
View attachment Deity MSG AD-1888.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Godel]

Spoiler :

I replayed my last turnset. Report below:

Spoiler :

This time I decided early warring with Monte against Ghandi would be essential. I started building UN in Washington so that if Monte asked me to join the fight pillaging wouldn't interrupt the UN buildas much. Gandhi still built UN but this time I declared war on Gandhi earlier (Monte did not ask).

I was elected secretary and on the first Diplo Victory vote Monte abstained. This was even after I gave him Fascism.

Ghandi did a lot of pillaging with Jet Fighters, Submarines and Gunships but never made a threatening assault on my cities.

Nevertheless, I thought that I would lose from here (Ghandi launch before the next vote) but because I declared war earlier Gandhi delayed his launch.

When the vote was cast in AD1888 the mutual struggle and choice of civics bonuses had accumulated to a point where Monte would vote for me. So a diplomatic victory is certainly possible, but I played it incorrectly the first time.

However, assume that Ghandi did not build UN. Then a Diplo victory may not be possible. Even by declaring war on Ghandi earlier, UN would be delayed and Monte may not like me enough for the first vote. By the second vote Ghandi may have launched.

Certainly a tight finish and possible to win with good decision making. Shuhye's advice about need +10 in diplomatic modifiers before a civ will vote is about right.

Save for anyone who is interested:
View attachment Deity MSG AD-1888 replay from 1860.Civ4SavedGame

 

[50_dollar_bag]

Godel

Spoiler :

If you had built the UN wouldn't Monte have been your opponent?
Who would Ghandi have voted for?

 

[shyuhe]

Congrats Godel It's definitely a tough finish to get the UN. Monty was close to getting ablocking majority in my game too. I wonder how Mutineer's thread ended up?

 

[Godel]

Godel

Spoiler :

If you had built the UN wouldn't Monte have been your opponent?
Who would Ghandi have voted for?

Spoiler :

Monte would'nt have been my opponent because when I bribed Monte to attack Gandhi, Gandhi captured one of Monte's cities on the second turn of the war. Gandhi became second in pop. All three of us were ridiculously close in pop though... the differences were in the order of 1%.

Btw, Gandhi hated us both. He wouldn't have voted for either of us.

 

[Godel]

@Mutineer
If you have time and want to think about the intricacies of Diplomatic Victory, you may want to have a go at my AD1860 save. I have shown that a Diplomatic Victory is possible (in my second attempt). It would be interesting to see your approach.

Spoiler :

The main reason why I did not win the first time is because I did not take into consideration how close Ghandi was to launching.
Desparate times call for desparate measures and I failed to take them.