Trump starting task force to de-naturalize citizens

[hobbsyoyo]

In case anyone didn't catch this in the clown car thread

The admin is now discharging immigrants that joined the military to obtain a path to citizenship. The effort has been in secret, the affected service members were not told why they were discharged and have not been given an avenue to appeal to the decision.

 

[Synobun]

In case anyone didn't catch this in the clown car thread

The admin is now discharging immigrants that joined the military to obtain a path to citizenship. The effort has been in secret, the affected service members were not told why they were discharged and have not been given an avenue to appeal to the decision.

Did someone say "winning"?

 

[Archbob]

We had most of that under Stephen Harper. One reason the ABC (Anybody But Conservatives) movement was pushed so hard in 2015 is because we were concerned that if we didn't get them out now, we wouldn't have another chance.


I hope you're a cold-weather person. There's a very good reason why Winnipeg's nickname is "Winterpeg."

Anyone with useful skills should be welcome in the Territories, whether Yukon, Northwest, or Nunavut. But keep in mind that it's a lot more expensive to live up north, and some communities are only accessible by plane or boat or ice highway, depending on the season. That's why climate change matters so much. Some communities are experiencing periods of being cut off from food and medical deliveries, since nobody can get in or out by the usual methods.

Saskatoon would actually be my first choice. If I were to move to NWT or the Yukon, it'd probably be Yellowknife or Whitehorse. NVT isn't really an option since you can't even drive there.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

From the bleeding-heart, lefty pinkos at Foreign Policy magazine, November 2016, "10 Ways to Tell if Your President is a Dictator". Trump & Co. have hit items #3 and #9 in recent weeks, with regard to immigration.

1. Systematic efforts to intimidate the media
2. Building an official, pro-Trump media network
3. Politicizing the civil service, military, National Guard, or domestic security agencies
4. Using government surveillance against domestic political opponents
5. Using state power to reward corporate backers and punish opponents
6. Stacking the Supreme Court
7. Enforcing the law for only one side
8. Really rigging the system
9. Fearmongering
10. Demonizing the opposition

About 2 years ago, I heard a historian on a radio program giving his list of historical hallmarks of an incipient authoritarian regime (sorry, I can't remember his name). The historian named several things, but cited the formation of a uniformed 'security' service that has close, political allegiance to the wannabe dictator as the thing that would really set off alarm bells in his head.

Naomi Wolf wrote a similar list 11 years ago: "Fascist America, in Ten Easy Steps"

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2. Create a gulag
3. Develop a thug caste
4. Set up an internal surveillance system
5. Harass citizens' groups
6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7. Target key individuals
8. Control the press
9. Dissent equals treason
10. Suspend the rule of law

This has been going on in the USA for the entirety of my adult life. Probably before too but I won't make assumptions.

3 and 9 have been there since 9/11. Same with 1, 2, and 4. 6 is on the horizon, 7 has been done, and 10 is done constantly by everybody in this nutjob tribal nonsense people like to pretend is credible politics. I guess 8 depends on what you mean by "really", but since if you ask anybody in partisan politics if it's rigged they'll always claim it's rigged in the other party's favor I guess you could include it.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Couldnt Trump just use an EO to denaturalise Obama ? /s
Iam guessing they will probably find a handful , probably Republican Trump voters to strip of citizenship. US Citizenship checks are pretty rigorous and thorougher on average takes years.

White House Launches Effort To Take Citizenship From Those Who Lied To Get It

last month, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services started a task force to review cases where people may have lied in order to get citizenship. And now the administration says it could be denaturalizing potentially a few thousand people
You would be concerned about somebody who had criminal convictions, and they were not honest about it on their application. There are also cases where you could be stripped of your citizenship if you fail to disclose that you are a member of a proscribed organization like the Nazi party or al-Qaida

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/04/6259...ake-citizenship-from-those-who-lied-to-get-it

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Trump's company requested visas for 61 visas for low paid groundskeepers and maids. Before they could do this, they were required to prove there were no domestic applicants so they took out an ad with tiny print and a fax number to apply too.

In past years they have actually had domestic applicants and they dismissed them from consideration after a brief phone screening.


So they'll kick soldiers who fight for them out of the country but will bend their own rules to bring in foreginers if it increases their profits.

 

[FriendlyFire]

It'll be like TRUMPS voter fraud task force
They found a handful of voter fraud, Mostly Republican Trump voters

ICE is just deporting the low hanging fruits, I'd imagine the fun will start when the US harvest season starts and ICE turns up the screws on 40% of the farm labour force, and the effects of the trade war start to be felt.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

ICE is just deporting the low hanging fruits, I'd imagine the fun will start when the US harvest season starts and ICE turns up the screws on 40% of the farm labour force, and the effects of the trade war start to be felt.

A famine in the richest country in the world would be quite the accomplishment. Not that it's going to happen, but he seems determined to break records.

My cousin who got American citizenship last year must be kicking himself right now.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

A famine in the richest country in the world would be quite the accomplishment. Not that it's going to happen, but he seems determined to break records.

Don't be too sure. There are already "urban food deserts" in some cities, in both the U.S. and Canada.

If you don't have transportation of your own, or reliable and affordable public transit to a grocery store that caters to normal people and working poor (ie. carries real food that people can afford), it's considered an urban food desert.

I was in the situation a few years ago where the nearest (and only place in the neighborhood) to get food was a convenience store. Sure, the nearest bus stop wasn't far away, but with my mobility issues, I couldn't carry much. It was a challenge to get to Walmart and come home with whatever food I could carry, along with the cat litter.

Finally somebody told me about the program at my preferred grocery store where I could phone in an order and have it delivered. I've done most of my grocery shopping that way for years now, since there still isn't anything in the immediate neighborhood I can get to without taking a taxi or handi-bus. I order some canned stuff like fish (for me) and cat milk (for Maddy) online.

 

[luiz]

In case anyone didn't catch this in the clown car thread

The admin is now discharging immigrants that joined the military to obtain a path to citizenship. The effort has been in secret, the affected service members were not told why they were discharged and have not been given an avenue to appeal to the decision.

This sounds much worse than the news story in the OP. If I got it right, the OP is about an investigation into fraudulent processes to obtain citizenship, and thus only people who actually commited fraud would be affected. I assume that even before Trump people could be prosecuted and lose their citizenship if it's established that they obtained it via fraud. Seems rather logical, even if obviously this task force could easily be used to harass innocent naturalized citizens. But in itself it's not really shocking.

But going after immigrant soldiers, who did nothing wrong and are just taking an opportunity provided by the law and putting theirs lives on the line for the US in the process, is nothing short of disgusting if indeed true.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

This sounds much worse than the news story in the OP. If I got it right, the OP is about an investigation into fraudulent processes to obtain citizenship, and thus only people who actually commited fraud would be affected. I assume that even before Trump people could be prosecuted and lose their citizenship if it's established that they obtained it via fraud. Seems rather logical, even if obviously this task force could easily be used to harass innocent naturalized citizens. But in itself it's not really shocking.

If you take it at face value it doesn't sound unreasonable, but this administration has already spent their Benefit of Doubt Points.
I wouldn't be surprised if they go after people who have made a typo, spelling or grammar error at some point in the application. They're so "Law and Order" that they'll jump on every legalistic technicality possible if it suits their ethnic cleansing agenda.

I think I read than one of he things they're looking into are discrepancies in birth dates. It's not that unusual for peole to have documents with different birth dates if they come from remote areas and/or countries with inefficient bureaucracies.
My own father was born in a tiny and remote village in Bosnia in the late thirties and it took my grandfather more than a week to get a birth certificate, thus my dad had two "official" birthdays, one in late February and one in early March.
It only became a problem a couple of years ago. We were able to settle the issue and now he only has one official birthday. A cousin of mine had two different ID numbers in Yugoslavia/Croatia, and that was also settled after a bit of bureaucratic frustration.
Would they have been able to deal with that if Germany's current government was blatantly xenophobic and had called Yugoslavs rapists and murderers who bring drugs and diseases ?

 

[EgonSpengler]

This sounds much worse than the news story in the OP. If I got it right, the OP is about an investigation into fraudulent processes to obtain citizenship, and thus only people who actually commited fraud would be affected. I assume that even before Trump people could be prosecuted and lose their citizenship if it's established that they obtained it via fraud. Seems rather logical, even if obviously this task force could easily be used to harass innocent naturalized citizens. But in itself it's not really shocking.

But going after immigrant soldiers, who did nothing wrong and are just taking an opportunity provided by the law and putting theirs lives on the line for the US in the process, is nothing short of disgusting if indeed true.

There was a guy on the radio yesterday who said he was being discharged from the US Army because of "foreign ties", his wife and her family live in Pakistan. I didn't hear what kind of discharge he was getting (which I think determines whether your benefits are at risk).

 

[FriendlyFire]

A famine in the richest country in the world would be quite the accomplishment. Not that it's going to happen, but he seems determined to break records.
My cousin who got American citizenship last year must be kicking himself right now.

Between the massive overproduction and huge food wastages, even if the US crops fell by half the US would not starve
For example Currently the US destroys / dumps hundred of Milions of Liters of Milk every year

I suspect Trump will try to bailout US Argiculture, but with US deficet set to grow to around 1 to 1.2 Trillion next year, Finacial collapse is likely and this time the Feds dont have much ammunition left

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Between the massive overproduction and huge food wastages, even if the US crops fell by half the US would not starve
For example Currently the US destroys / dumps hundred of Milions of Liters of Milk every year

That's why I said it won't happen. Many people (including me) criticize Western agricultural subsidies, but I guess they're an important insurance against Great Leap Forward level idiocies.

 

[Cutlass]

I wasn't planning on moving to Toronto, I like Winnipeg and Saskatoon more anyways. Maybe the Native Americans will let me live in the Northwest Territories or the Yukon even, I mean, there's not many people there.

A thought occurred to me today. I realize you and I hadn't ever gotten along all that well over all these years. But I for one would rather see you stay in the US than be forced out of it.

 

[Leathaface]

Trump has no morales, I wouldn't be surpised if he tried to bring back child labor.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Between the massive overproduction and huge food wastages, even if the US crops fell by half the US would not starve
For example Currently the US destroys / dumps hundred of Milions of Liters of Milk every year

This is one of the reasons he's gone after Canada. We have high tariffs on American dairy products so it doesn't flood our markets and put Canadian farmers out of business.

Trump hates our supply management policies, and wants to be able to dump that excess American milk here. Of course he doesn't give a damn about our own dairy industry or making Canadian farmers destitute.

So even though milk is pricier here and cheese is... basically the good stuff is out of reach on my budget unless there's a really good sale on, I'd rather this than see the dairy industry gutted and our country become dependent on the U.S. for dairy products.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That's why I said it won't happen. Many people (including me) criticize Western agricultural subsidies, but I guess they're an important insurance against Great Leap Forward level idiocies.

Yes yes.

I am not fine with high levels of obesity in developed economies but obesity >>> starvation. Even if the policies no only lead to obesity but also financial waste, I'm still fine with it. I want those policies to be improved obviously, but not ditched entirely without serious discussion and experimentation with alternate policies.

The sad problem I see with major social engineering projects (regardless of which country we're talking about) is that leaders don't seem to understand the concept of experimentation and instead go full-in on whichever policy path they've taken. When they go after major policies (like food cultivation) this can have drastic consequences in short time frames.

 

[Archbob]

A thought occurred to me today. I realize you and I hadn't ever gotten along all that well over all these years. But I for one would rather see you stay in the US than be forced out of it.

I'm not as to the left as you are and I doubt i'm in real trouble, I've been here for almost 30 years and have been a citizen for half that time. But there's no way I'd vote for someone like Trump.

 

[Cutlass]

I'm not as to the left as you are and I doubt i'm in real trouble, I've been here for almost 30 years and have been a citizen for half that time. But there's no way I'd vote for someone like Trump.

Just keep in mind that now would be a particularly bad time to out yourself as having been a communist party spy all these years.