Trying out new Pantheons, need input!

[Browd]

Ditto. Fair point.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Yea its really a defensive pantheon in my opinion, but very powerful. It will allow you to play tall with little issues and give you a late game edge with air units and if you know how to play tall you can grow quickly and just finish the map off as soon as you get air units with the pantheon.

Totally agree ^

Faith Healing aircraft is the #2 reason I love it so much (#1 is for healing those few archers I defend against that initial rush with... invaluable). Another underrated aspect of it is healing ships. Those 1 tile islands are suddenly excellent emergency healing bases for ships unlucky enough to lack the repair-at-sea promotion (forget the name right now).

 

[Browd]

A port in a storm if you don't have Supply? Makes sense.

 

[Zezima]

All this discussion about Faith Healers has made me really interested in experimenting with it in future games.

Also, so all of the healing-related bonuses that Gucumatz mentioned stack together, but I was wondering do two units with medic promotion stack? If I have a warrior healing between two warriors with Medic I, does the warrior regenerate an additional 10 HP? (I'm assuming not, but was curious if anyone knew offhand)

 

[Browd]

Only get one medic benefit per turn. Just like Great General bonuses don't stack.

 

[dopingman]

Now you have to update your WA post with all that discussion material Browd

 

[Seabastian Civ]

All this discussion about Faith Healers has made me really interested in experimenting with it in future games.

Also, so all of the healing-related bonuses that Gucumatz mentioned stack together, but I was wondering do two units with medic promotion stack? If I have a warrior healing between two warriors with Medic I, does the warrior regenerate an additional 10 HP? (I'm assuming not, but was curious if anyone knew offhand)

Definitely check it out if you're either very worried about defending your capital from early rushes or missed out on some of the better pantheons. Its a very solid plan B pantheon.

 

[compwiz1202]

Medic I is +5 to adjacent units' healing.
Medic II is +5 to that unit's healing.
I know those will stack so if you had a medic II unit healing adjacent to a medic I unit, it would get +20 in nonfriendly territory. I also know the Khan healing will not stack with the medic I promotion. Now I will have to fool with it tonight with Immortals. Is there a way to force Fountain of Youth into a game? Thanks.

I like Temple of Artemis better than Fertility Rites because ToA is + to gross food, and FR is bonus to net food. Floating Gardens for Monty is the only other thing that is bonus to gross food.

 

[Unresolved]

I like Temple of Artemis better than Fertility Rites because ToA is + to gross food, and FR is bonus to net food. Floating Gardens for Monty is the only other thing that is bonus to gross food.

They're not really comparable. They're not mutually exclusive and one's a pantheon and the other a wonder. It should be no surprise that a wonder is much better than a pantheon you can get with 10 faith.

 

[Mrdarklight]

Absent a desert, it depends on what kind of game I'm planning. A good default is Fertility Rites (+10% pop growth). If I'm planning to go wide quickly, I'll go with Messenger of the Gods, but with only a few cities it's not all that great. Even with a wide empire it's not as good as people make it out to be. With 10 cities it's only 20 science, and 20 science at that point isn't much. But it's ok.

I had one game where I had 5-6 stone/marble in range of my first two cities, so Stone Circles was good there. I occassionally end up with a lot of gold or silver mines nearby, so I've picked Religious Idols in those cases. In a wide empire Goddess of Love may be worth it.

I've never taken Goddess of Festivals, or been in a situation where I had that much wine/incense around that would make it worth it.

 

[dopingman]

MotG is just the pantheon you can't go wrong with, science benefits EVERYTHING. And 20 sci in a medival puppet empire is about 5-10% of your bpt so not too shabby. Maybe I should try out new pantheons now

 

[Tiggurix]

Maybe it's because I'm kind of a newbie, but I can't for the life of me understand why people consider Desert Folklore to be "god tier" while at the same time considering Dance of the Aurora to be "crap". They're basically exactly the same Pantheon! Personally I would consider Dance of the Aurora to be better than Desert Folklore. Sure, you could get the Petra for a desert city and make those desert tiles better than pretty much any other tile, but then again, you can only do that for one city, and it's not even certain that you would even get Petra. On the other hand, those tundra tiles, when not consdering the Petra, are almost always better than those desert tiles, unless you're going for heavy farming. Personally, I prefer Dance of the Aurora, because I like to play as the Danes, and because I'm just sentimentally attracted to the idea of playing as an "arctic" civilisation (I prefer winter out of all the seasons, and I'm attracted to the cold areas of the world).

So, why is Desert Folklore so much better?

 

[The Pilgrim]

So, why is Desert Folklore so much better?

Because it gives faith from high food tiles like flood plains, oasis and bonus/luxes tiles, which you want to work anyways, unlike the Dance of the Aurora which applies only to horrible tiles that you don't want to work except for random deer and very rare salt.

Welcome to CFC!

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

DF pretty much revolves around river tiles like floodplains. if you dont have a river and floodplains you never would have settled there anyway. your cities will grow so much faster than any tundra start that by the same turn count, the desert city will work more faith tiles than the tundra start because they have more pop. if you compare 2 starts and each city has 10 pop then it doesnt really matter and tundra might have an edge if the desert city doesnt get Petra. but the desert city founded the religion way faster and had better choices of beliefs available to them. for many this is far more important than the tundra potential.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Sure, you could get the Petra for a desert city and make those desert tiles better than pretty much any other tile...

On the other hand, those tundra tiles ... are almost always better than those desert tiles, unless you're going for heavy farming.

Desert starts are much better than tundra, if only for the possibility to get Petra... yes, it's that good!

And I'd venture to guess that most folks go heavy farming on their capital, since it is usually the best place to get Great People and Science, both of which need high populations. If you don't heavily farm your capital, I think you should give it a try! You might like it!

 

[Arachnofiend]

The fact that it excludes tundra forest tiles really hurts Dance of the Aurora. I know they're trying to prevent it from overlapping with Druidic Lore but most of your really good tundra tiles are those camp resources, especially deer. Other than that you might get gold and silver but in that case you're better off with Religious Idols.

 

[Gucumatz]

If it worked on forests, Dance of the Aurora would become a whole lot more useful.

 

[Tiggurix]

The fact that it excludes tundra forest tiles really hurts Dance of the Aurora. I know they're trying to prevent it from overlapping with Druidic Lore but most of your really good tundra tiles are those camp resources, especially deer. Other than that you might get gold and silver but in that case you're better off with Religious Idols.

Huh, so it doesn't work with forests? Well, that's kind of unfair, especially considering that Desert Folklore gets to work with flood plains and oases. Well, that certainly explains why they're on such different power levels, at least! I do think that, like others have suggested, Desert Folklore should get nerfed, and not work with flood plains and oases, or Dance of the Aurora should get buffed and work with forests. Either would be fair, at least.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I'm fine with Desert Folklore as is; it's pretty much the only way a tall empire can compete with a wide one at faith output, heheh. I'd rather see DotA include forest tiles, it doesn't really overlap with Druidic Lore anyways since the latter doesn't give per tile output.

 

[kaspergm]

Desert Folklkore needs to lose Flood Plains faith, pretty obvious for balance reasons.

Stone Circles is better than its reputation. It's situational like any other resource-faith belief, but if you get a Grass start you will be likely to have a good number of Stone sitting around, and also remember that stone spreads more or less evenly over entire map, which means that if you are going wide, this will sum up, unlike the luxuries, which are likely to be only around your starting point. And last but not least, Stone tiles are tiles you actually want to work, unlike many of the others, like Wine or Incense, that don't provide the same early food/production outcome. And it's 2 Faith for each quary, so even 2-3 Stone/Marbles around your capital will make it count. An early +6 faith is better than what you get with most other beliefs (except DF ...) and combined with Mausoleum you can get some really God-like quaries!

Sacred Path is worth considering if you start in a lot of Jungle and don't need faith urgently. You can get a lot of culture from this belief, and combined with the +2 Science from Jungles after you reach Universities, this can make Jungles to great versatile tiles. But obviously you need something to compensate for growth in early game.

Goddess Of The Hunt can be a great belief for Tundra starts. Not only will you have many Deer in this terrain - and you will have many Deer - you will also frequently get Fur and Truffles, which also triggers the camp bonus. I've made some really respectable Tundra starts with this belief.