Full Patronage doesn't hurt you if you delay it enough. Worst case scenario, it adds 100 points to the last GS you'd get naturally, which is not a huge deal when you have only one city with over 50 scientist points per turn. Pretty low chance of getting a GS this way, but there's no reason not to try it.
TSG 131 After Action Report
- Thread starter Knowtalent
- Start date
It's definitely a big deal for normal games, and normal civs.
That it's OCC with Babylon only makes it "kinda bad" just speaks to how good Babylon is.
Free Great people just need to be free and be done with it.
Devine inspiration is the most likely answer. It is a much better choice than religious community if you have a solid tech lead and will be getting most of the wonders. Hammers on this start are plentiful once you get petra. 50fpt 100 turns is another GS plus an extra GE if you want. It may be better to IP as your enhancer as that tied with tithe will net you some much needed midgame gpt.
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Oh I agree, was just talking about this particular game. Normally there would be less culture as well, making it much harder to justify completing Patronage in the first place.
InaneObserver
Warlord
When I was making the choice I figured that it wasn't just about securing wonders. Less turns building wonders = more turns pumping out Research, and more hammers = more from Research.
Another thing to calculate is the faith purchase thresholds. If the next GS is 6.5k, sure. If it's 10.5k faith, then Divine Inspiration won't be enough.
Still, you're probably right. In this game hammers were plentiful.
Sempronius
Chieftain
Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Date submitted: 2016-03-19 14:30:41
Reference number: 34119
Your name: Sempronius
Game status: Diplomacy Wrong VC
Game date: 1948AD
Turns played: 368
Base score: 1324
Final score: 1813
- Did you use your UU? A few, mostly against barbarians.
- How useful was your UA? It was good, but not game changing.
- Did you use spying to your advantage? With City States mostly as all other civs were behind in tech.
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how? The dessert start was great.
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions? I was more reckless than normal and didn't worry about other civs as much.
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders? Yes I took piety and the option to buy any great person with faith, that helped to get artists or engineers when needed.
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose? Full Trad, Full Piety, Full Rationalism, Order some in Commerce, Exploration and Patronage too.
- What techs did you prioritize ? Writing, Petra, Astronomy
- How many academies did you build? 3
I was 2 parts away from a science victory when the world leader vote came up and I voted for myself and ended it.
Date submitted: 2016-03-19 14:30:41
Reference number: 34119
Your name: Sempronius
Game status: Diplomacy Wrong VC
Game date: 1948AD
Turns played: 368
Base score: 1324
Final score: 1813
- Did you use your UU? A few, mostly against barbarians.
- How useful was your UA? It was good, but not game changing.
- Did you use spying to your advantage? With City States mostly as all other civs were behind in tech.
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how? The dessert start was great.
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions? I was more reckless than normal and didn't worry about other civs as much.
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders? Yes I took piety and the option to buy any great person with faith, that helped to get artists or engineers when needed.
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose? Full Trad, Full Piety, Full Rationalism, Order some in Commerce, Exploration and Patronage too.
- What techs did you prioritize ? Writing, Petra, Astronomy
- How many academies did you build? 3
I was 2 parts away from a science victory when the world leader vote came up and I voted for myself and ended it.
Well, I think the interesting thing it that I completely made up that extra GS that he got with raw beakers. How? I dunno. One extra GS would have put me in the low 250's for finish, or would it because of the tradeoff on other things?
Also, gold was never an issue. The only time I even had close to an issue would be when I decided to dump 500g into a CS 2 turns before Education and couldn't buy my university.
I bought everything else though on the turn they were available - School, Lab, Factory, Hydro Plant, etc.
There are too many variables to control for to directly compare the end results of a specific game. Ordering of techs, poicies, or AR Number of allied CS, etc. Im only comparing the theoretical values of the specific beliefs. How our PCs divvy up the random numbers has as much to do with speed of victory as our choices do.
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Groin_Apologist
Big Ten Apologist
Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Date submitted: 2016-03-19 17:33:04
Reference number: 34122
Your name: Groin_Apologist
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1908AD
Turns played: 328
Base score: 1303
Final score: 2004
Time played: 7:31:00
Date submitted: 2016-03-19 17:33:04
Reference number: 34122
Your name: Groin_Apologist
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1908AD
Turns played: 328
Base score: 1303
Final score: 2004
Time played: 7:31:00
Well i specifically designed the start area to yeild a high level hammers after Petra. If you look at the ammount of beakers yeilded from production turns they arent going to make even 1 turns worth beakers. Say 200 turns of peak hammer benefit thats 30 turns of science production. Say that entire time you had 100 hpt youd get an extra 750 beakers. Now in a non OCC i can understand that choice as there is more potential hpt across an empire.
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Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Date submitted: 2016-03-19 20:25:40
Reference number: 34123
Your name: MPoxon
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1864AD
Turns played: 302
Base score: 1274
Final score: 2123
Time played: 5:21:00
Was really hoping for a sub 300 turn victory but was not to be. Not my first GOTM but first time submitting my save so hopefully the file verifies OK and I have not broken any rules.
- Did you use your UU?
No, I concentrated on wonder building and not on defence
- How useful was your UA?
Fairly instrumental for a science victory
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
No point using spys for stealing tech as I was ahead, did use them for rigging CS elections.
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
The start position was epic so no complaints there
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I knew I had time to go for early wonders such as ToA, GL, HG
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Kind of, I got a religion but did not bother spreading it. I used faith to purchase GS
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Tradition start, then Patronage left side to get CS science bonus, then full rationalism. Ideology Freedom, main policies which helped were specialists consume half food, buy spaceship parts with gold and influence for CS trade routes
- What techs did you prioritise ?
Belined all education buildings and wonders with GS points.
- How many academies did you build?
8
Date submitted: 2016-03-19 20:25:40
Reference number: 34123
Your name: MPoxon
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1864AD
Turns played: 302
Base score: 1274
Final score: 2123
Time played: 5:21:00
Was really hoping for a sub 300 turn victory but was not to be. Not my first GOTM but first time submitting my save so hopefully the file verifies OK and I have not broken any rules.
- Did you use your UU?
No, I concentrated on wonder building and not on defence
- How useful was your UA?
Fairly instrumental for a science victory
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
No point using spys for stealing tech as I was ahead, did use them for rigging CS elections.
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
The start position was epic so no complaints there
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I knew I had time to go for early wonders such as ToA, GL, HG
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Kind of, I got a religion but did not bother spreading it. I used faith to purchase GS
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Tradition start, then Patronage left side to get CS science bonus, then full rationalism. Ideology Freedom, main policies which helped were specialists consume half food, buy spaceship parts with gold and influence for CS trade routes
- What techs did you prioritise ?
Belined all education buildings and wonders with GS points.
- How many academies did you build?
8
Attachments
How on earth have you got a 56 population city in 251 turns??? I clearly have a lot to learn!
Swords into Plowshares.
ToA
Hanging Gardens.
CS allies for extra food in the cap.
After Satellites, top half of the tech tree first, for Hospitals and Med Labs.
I dunno what you did differently, but my pop was right around there too.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
yeah I picked the +2 faith from wonders, it paid off like mad because I bought 4 GS with faith, something I never ever did. It's a safe bet when going OCC, it even works nicely on Deity, check the Siam DCL.
Nice game Stormtrooper! You finished 4 turns ahead of me, better finishing with bulbs I guess. I had one late RA which made My last GS obsolete. Had I started the bulbs earlier I might have beaten you
.
I was lucky to sign 3 RAs that went off just on Telecommunications and I finished the tree with the last GS. RAs are very crap on Emperor though however If I went for the Liberty GS, I could have done another 10 turns less
Replaying this map doesn't yield the same results.
First map - effortless CS alliances. Easy quests, lots of chain lux deals, wonders, quests, etc. Genghis Khan stayed on one city until I was in Industrial.
Second run - can't keep CS's around for anything, and Mongolia is terrorizing the whole continent removing my CS's from play. Only thing I can do is hope the AI liberates them, because I sure can't. I have a ton less culture now. Either that or I'm still not used to OCC speed on things (even though I just finished the map this morning), and it's at the exact same speed it was earlier.
Pretty amazing how many variables there are in a map. It's not even 100% skill related, the guy who gets the fastest time could just very well be the luckiest with conditions.
First map - effortless CS alliances. Easy quests, lots of chain lux deals, wonders, quests, etc. Genghis Khan stayed on one city until I was in Industrial.
Second run - can't keep CS's around for anything, and Mongolia is terrorizing the whole continent removing my CS's from play. Only thing I can do is hope the AI liberates them, because I sure can't. I have a ton less culture now. Either that or I'm still not used to OCC speed on things (even though I just finished the map this morning), and it's at the exact same speed it was earlier.
Pretty amazing how many variables there are in a map. It's not even 100% skill related, the guy who gets the fastest time could just very well be the luckiest with conditions.
Almost invariably there is a large amount of luck involved in the final placement. In my test game i lost 4 CS to Mongol predation, that obviously slowed me down. AR are another huge variable
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InaneObserver
Warlord
This is interesting, and it's been my experience as well. I guess the really strong players will find a way to work with most situations, but luck certainly plays a part.
Just think back on that lucky scout we've all had that happens to swoop in and clear a settlement for 3 CS quests and a returned worker...
TrailblazingScot
I was kittenOFchaos
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1846AD
Turns played: 293
Base score: 1741
Final score: 3001
Time played: 4:28:00
Could have shaved 8 turns off at the end by buying one more GS - didn't think I needed to.
Fun game.
Game date: 1846AD
Turns played: 293
Base score: 1741
Final score: 3001
Time played: 4:28:00
Could have shaved 8 turns off at the end by buying one more GS - didn't think I needed to.
Fun game.
Turn 305 victory.
I feel like I've dodged a few bullets and was just plain lucky: started with a worker, and the second ruin was +20 culture, so didn't need no monument (got it from legalism). The next turn I met two religious CSs for 8 faith each, and founded the pantheon without any shrine. I think the first 100 turns I only had wonders and free buildings in my city. Still, I have no idea how people finished under 300 turns. Just donating all the money for charity to, maybe, get DoFs and RAs?
Did you use your UU?
I think I had only 2 bowmen. Donated one to a city state to help with Mongolia. The other cleared a couple of encampents.
How useful was your UA?
Absolutely fantastic. I've never had that many great scientists. I planted 5 and expended around 15.
Did you use spying to your advantage?
Not really. I belatedly realized that I had to fill the bottom of the tech tree in the end. Since Industrial Era, I was at least 2 eras ahead of everybody. I could have shaved a few turns with one or two spies just picking up legacy tech I haven't bothered to research. Otherwise, I used a high-level spy to protect the capital and the rest to rig elections.
Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
I think it wasn't the type, as much as the specific map: most CS's coastal and the starting location relatively secluded. Both facts helped a great deal, but I've seen plenty of Continents maps where this wasn't the case.
How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I knew that early wonder-slutting was pretty safe, so I prioritized early wonders.
Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Somewhat. I bought 4 or 5 great scientists with faith + ~70 gpt from tithe.
No faith wonders.
What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full Tradition, opened Commerce, opened Patronage, 3 policies into Rationalism.
Adopted Freedom and beelined space procurement, picking all the policies that favor specialists.
Beeline scholasticism, added the penultimate policy for Rationalism.
Add more policies to Freedom to get +4 influence for every trade route.
Finished Rationalism for free Ecology (I probably waited way too long to finish this one).
Finished Patronage.
Finished Commerce.
What techs did you prioritize?
Writing -> Currency -> Education -> Navigation -> Scientific Theory -> Radio -> Plastics -> Penicillin -> Satellites -> The rest of the techs required for SS parts
How many academies did you build?
5
Spoiler submission info :
I feel like I've dodged a few bullets and was just plain lucky: started with a worker, and the second ruin was +20 culture, so didn't need no monument (got it from legalism
). The next turn I met two religious CSs for 8 faith each, and founded the pantheon without any shrine. I think the first 100 turns I only had wonders and free buildings in my city. Still, I have no idea how people finished under 300 turns. Just donating all the money for charity to, maybe, get DoFs and RAs?Did you use your UU?
I think I had only 2 bowmen. Donated one to a city state to help with Mongolia. The other cleared a couple of encampents.
How useful was your UA?
Absolutely fantastic. I've never had that many great scientists. I planted 5 and expended around 15.
Did you use spying to your advantage?
Not really. I belatedly realized that I had to fill the bottom of the tech tree in the end. Since Industrial Era, I was at least 2 eras ahead of everybody. I could have shaved a few turns with one or two spies just picking up legacy tech I haven't bothered to research. Otherwise, I used a high-level spy to protect the capital and the rest to rig elections.
Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
I think it wasn't the type, as much as the specific map: most CS's coastal and the starting location relatively secluded. Both facts helped a great deal, but I've seen plenty of Continents maps where this wasn't the case.
How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I knew that early wonder-slutting was pretty safe, so I prioritized early wonders.
Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Somewhat. I bought 4 or 5 great scientists with faith + ~70 gpt from tithe.
No faith wonders.
What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full Tradition, opened Commerce, opened Patronage, 3 policies into Rationalism.
Adopted Freedom and beelined space procurement, picking all the policies that favor specialists.
Beeline scholasticism, added the penultimate policy for Rationalism.
Add more policies to Freedom to get +4 influence for every trade route.
Finished Rationalism for free Ecology (I probably waited way too long to finish this one).
Finished Patronage.
Finished Commerce.
What techs did you prioritize?
Writing -> Currency -> Education -> Navigation -> Scientific Theory -> Radio -> Plastics -> Penicillin -> Satellites -> The rest of the techs required for SS parts
How many academies did you build?
5
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
Thing is, if you tech fast enough and you will, that will speed up the tech level of city states as well. Genghis came at Muskets with Spears and of course he did nothing
