TSG 131 After Action Report

Still, I have no idea how people finished under 300 turns. Just donating all the money for charity to, maybe, get DoFs and RAs?

What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full Tradition, opened Commerce, opened Patronage, 3 policies into Rationalism.
Adopted Freedom and beelined space procurement, picking all the policies that favor specialists.

Well, one thing that might be slowing you down was low entrance to Renaissance to open Rat.

Both games I finished Tradition right around the time I got to education. The first game I just slammed forward into Acoustics and finished Oracle on the same turn, which meant the instant it was available, I had 6 in Tradition and Secularism in Rationalism and absolutely no filler policies. The second game I went to Astronomy instead of Acoustics, but did the same thing. I had no filler policies between Tradition and Rationalism, and that's what's going to speed your game up. 10% more science when you're happy (and you should never not be happy in this situation, I sold every lux I had both games and was still at 30+ happiness at this point in the game), and +2 science from the university/guilds/market specialists is absolutely critical to get to, and will speed your game up far more than 25% gold and 25% less influence decay.

In any science game, it's critical to reach milestones as fast as possible in order to snowball the rest of them. If you can finish pottery and get writing from a ruin, that's basically best case scenario for Babylon. You're ~10 turns ahead of even where Babylon should be at that point, and you've got massive science. That enables you get to to Universities faster and unlock Rationalism faster, which gets you everything faster.

Small differences in early game make for large differences in the end game.

Thing is, if you tech fast enough and you will, that will speed up the tech level of city states as well. Genghis came at Muskets with Spears and of course he did nothing :lol:

Yeah, assuming the CS actually built units, which apparently Bucharest and Colombo didn't. By the time I got my scout and scarcher over to Bucharest to stand in the way and impede him, he was already working on Colombo.
 
I had to slow down my tourism (set up great works to avoid tourism bonuses) and deliberately time my push into the information era to AVOID cultural / diplomatic victories before getting the mandatory science victory, since that was the requirement in the beginning. I perhaps overdid the wonders, which might've slowed down my science victory by a few turns. I probably should've just done straight research after a certain point (maybe winning the World's Fair). In the end, I had built (I think in order) the Great Library, Temple of Artemis, Hanging Gardens, Petra, Oracle, Chichen Itza, Borobudur, Hagia Sophia, Sistine Chapel, Colossus, Parthenon, Alhambra, Leaning Tower, Globe Theatre, Porcelain Tower, Big Ben, Statue of Liberty, Taj Mahal, Red Fort, Forbidden Palace, Broadway, Cristo Redentor, Brandenburg, Hubble, Sydney Opera House.

I also had so much money and nothing to spend it on. Any additional units would've cut into my production in Babylon by 10%. I had every city-state by a lot. I had 4 nuclear missiles in subs just ready to launch wherever I felt like it at the end but I was just ready to finish the game so I never used them.

- Did you use your UU?
Hm, I used my bowman to gain some mid-game influence from Bogota by clearing barbs on his border. But this had almost no effect on the game overall. I could've upgraded him to a composite bow much earlier.

- How useful was your UA?
In the end I spawned I think 15 great scientists: 1 from writing, 4 from wonders, 3 from faith, and 7 "naturally". Obviously the one from writing was the most important, that's the one that lets Babylon take off from the early game.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
I used it to rig a few city-states in the end, but it was only to add to my already insurmountable lead in city-state influence. I also killed a few spies but my level 3 spy in Babylon was surprisingly ineffective at catching enemy spies. In the end, I had nothing else to do with my culture so I completed Piety and took Underground Sects just so that my spies could be useful and spread my religion to the few remaining cities that weren't already Catholic.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
It hindered, but only because of my own stupidity. For some reason I got the idea that it was Pangaea. I started with two scouts for that reason. Later on, those two scouts died to barbs, so I rush-bought another one thinking I still had to find the other 3 civs. It turns out my first two scouts had already scouted 90% of the continent and that third scout was mostly a waste.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I went for more wonders than I usually go for. (I've been playing Deity lately but intend to go back down to Immortal because I find Deity games boring.)

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
I'm quite certain that I could've achieved victory even if I took dance of the aurora (completely useless) as my first pantheon and never founded a religion, but the three faith-bought scientists certainly sped up my victory. I was also earning 124 gpt from tithes, as there were 40 Catholic cities, 1 Taoist holy city, 1 Protestant holy city, and 1 without a religion. I had +91 faith per turn. My faith wonders were Borobudur, Hagia Sophia, and Grand Temple.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Completed Tradition, opened Commerce with the Oracle, completed Rationalism, took Freedom up to New Deal (along with Avant Garde and Civil Society, obviously don't need Space Procurements until later), Commerce up to Mercantilism, Patronage up to Scholasticism, completed Exploration (this was during the World's Fair so I had so much culture I decided to go for archaeologists and hidden antiquity sites), Freedom up to Space Procurements (still didn't need it yet but whatever), completed Aesthetics, completed Piety (Underground Sects for my Reformation belief), Patronage up to Merchant Confederacy. Yeah, I had a lot of culture.

- What techs did you prioritize ?
Obviously the science ones. I beelined currency (for Petra), philosophy (national college), education (university), acoustics (to open rationalism), astronomy (observatory), printing press (Leaning Tower), scientific theory (public school), radio (ideology), plastics (research lab), penicillin (medical lab), atomic theory (+2 science for academies), satellites (Hubble), ecology (Sydney Opera House, because I had an extra engineer sitting around), advanced ballistics, particle physics, nanotech.

- How many academies did you build?
Five. I saved the rest for my late-game tech push. I maybe built too many academies, but I think it was still the early Renaissance when I already had my fifth.
 

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Oops, I forgot to submit my game BEFORE posting in this thread. But I promise I had already completed the game.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Date submitted: 2016-03-20 19:53:07
Reference number: 34126
Your name: fyar
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1804AD
Turns played: 272
Base score: 1650
Final score: 3055
Time played: 10:31:00
Submitted save: Nebuchadnezzar II_0272 AD-1804w.Civ5Save
Renamed file: fyar_C513101.Civ5Save

In case it matters, I did have to re-load twice due to game crashes, on turns 171 and 247. I had auto-saves from those same turns so I just re-started those turns and repeated to the best of my memory exactly what I had done before. In any case, I felt pretty secure in my victory well before either of those turns, but it's still curious because my game doesn't usually crash all that often.
 
Well, one thing that might be slowing you down was low entrance to Renaissance to open Rat.
Yeah, that's one reason. I went for Iron Working before Education. Still, I've got it at turn 103, 20 turns later than most. Might be my wonder-building which I diverted a lot of growth to at first.
 
t273 victory. Cool finish: Got my last natural GS t270, reached 4000 faith to buy another one t271, bulbed Particle Physics t272 & bought the last space ship part, added it to ship t273.

- Did you use your UU?
A little. Scout upgraded to one and bought another one to kill barbs.

- How useful was your UA?
Quite good.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
No

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Loved the starting position

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Didn't spend any money on RAs as they gave me just about 1-2 turns of research. However I accpted most RAs the AI proposed (had enough money)

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Yes, in fact it was very helpful. Bought 4 GS in total. Could have gotten 5 possibly, but Catherine was very aggressive with her religion & spammed it all over the place, including in my capital. I flipped back buying a Great Prophet & asked her not to do that any more. She promised not to but did it again near the end... and GPs were too expensive by then to buy another one, needed the faith for my 4th GS!

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full tradition, opened Commerce, 3 Patronage, Rationalism, Freedom, finished Patronage & Rationalism, Full Liberty for another GS.
Got Nanotechnology with Rationalism finisher.

- What techs did you prioritize ?
Writing for GL, then beelined Petra, then usual science beelines

- How many academies did you build?
5
 
Well, I'm embarrassed. My first official submission for Game of the Month and I thought I did it all right, but I won with the wrong VC. Oh well, I would have had to click through at least another 30 turns if I hadn't cut it off when I did.

Victory Type: Diplomatic
Turn: 282

- Did you use your UU?
Popped a hut with my scout and kept him all the way until he was a gatling gun. But barbs were kind of a non-issue in the early game.
- How useful was your UA?
Very useful, although I didn't leverage it well AT ALL. My first time on a OCC and I made some definite noob mistakes.
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Not a bit for most of the game, although I killed quite a few agents and spammed coups in contested city states late in the game.
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
The positioning of the city states was key for getting early religion and being protected from other civs. I did get forward settled by China, but it never became a problem.
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
It's my usual difficulty, but it seemed like a much different game because of the OCC.
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
Huge. Got a pantheon on turn 6 and rolled from there with plenty of faith from desert tiles, gold from tithe, and food from swords into plowshares. Built Borobodur. Bought 3 or 4 GS.
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full Tradition, Commerce opener, full Rationalism, poured some into Freedom for increased great people production, and went back to get full Patronism (maybe a mistake).
- What techs did you prioritize ?
Mentioned it in the opening action report, just the usual suspects for science and early wonders (GL, Petra, HG, Oracle, chose not to go for ToA but it seems like that was a mistake).
- How many academies did you build?
Only 2. Definitely my biggest mistake in my first OCC, and especially since we're playing with Babylon. I just wasn't prepared for the late game slow down and assumed the conventional wisdom of bulbing after the first one or two GS.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Date submitted: 2016-03-22 00:13:38
Reference number: 34128
Your name: zxcvbob
Game status: Diplomacy Wrong VC
Game date: 1911AD
Turns played: 331
Base score: 1498
Final score: 2269
Time played: 8:20:00
Submitted save: Nebuchadnezzar II_0332 AD-1912.Civ5Save
Renamed file: zxcvbob_C513101.Civ5Save

I was about 15 turns away from a science victory (10 turns if I got another GS), and a world leader vote presented itself and I took it because the game was getting tedious. (it was fun up to about turn 300, though)

I should have beelined Penicillin to get the medical lab sooner. And I took the right social policies but in the wrong order. I opened Patronage for my filler policy (used Oracle to finish Tradition early) then took Consulates and Scholasticism before I opened Rationalism. At the end of the game, I was getting 1/3 of my beakers from CS's, but in the early game their science output was pathetic; less than 10% of my own science. I filled Tradition, Rationalism, Patronage, Commerce, most of Freedom, and was working on Exploration. My happiness was well over 100 without Circus Maximus, and had just built the coliseum because I had nothing better to do for one turn while waiting for another spaceship tech to finish.

I won the Worlds Fair, but did not participate in the International Games at all because I was afraid that would push me over the top for a cultural victory.
Spoiler :
China tried to take over my continent, and had wiped out Russia and Korea was almost finished with Mongolia. I declared war and wiped her out; popped 6 Legionaries and upgraded them to infantry while she was still fighting with rifles and her unique crossbows. I let CS's actually capture many of the cities (I wanted 1 CS to capture all the non-raze cities but they didn't cooperate; only took Seoul), and Shaka took her last 2 zero-health puppets.

I got one merchant, two engineers, and more scientists than I could count. No Great People gifts from the city states. Bulbing scientists was not giving as much science as I think it should; I was getting about 4 or 5 turns worth. (not sure how many I bought with faith, but the last one cost 4000)
 
If the last one cost 4,000 faith, you bought four GSs (the progression is 1,000, 1,500, 2,500, and 4,000).
 
Yeah, that's one reason. I went for Iron Working before Education. Still, I've got it at turn 103, 20 turns later than most. Might be my wonder-building which I diverted a lot of growth to at first.

In this kind of a game, you can build a lot of wonders without worrying about hammers. It's not a super high growth start, with only 2 oasis and the wheat, and even worse considering the only viable tiles for the academies were sheep which gives you one food, so it's probably more important to just prioritize growth wonders.

I got GL first, then ToA, Petra, HG, CI, Alhambra, Pisa, Notre Dame (i only added it because it was 5 turns at that point, and no one had built it yet).

I'd say the biggest thing is that education/rationalism thing. No reason to go for Iron Working, really. Colossus isn't as valuable when you can't use the trade route as internal. It's just another 10-20g on the pile, and you don't even really need the gold. I pretty much didn't build any buildings. I built a granary, but bought a worker, water mill, stables, forge, all science buildings, etc. What's important for speed is getting those science bonuses as fast as possible. 33% more from the university. 10% more from Rat. +2 on specialists (which is +4 by that point). Big things that lead to faster times down the road.
 
What was the optimum number of academies here? I had two (and one holy site, and a manufactory planted very late.)
 
Bulbing scientists was not giving as much science as I think it should; I was getting about 4 or 5 turns worth. (not sure how many I bought with faith, but the last one cost 4000)

Sadly the science you get from CS does not count to your base science - neither for bulbs nor for RAs :(
 
Sadly the science you get from CS does not count to your base science - neither for bulbs nor for RAs :(

I only signed one RA the whole game, and it almost turned out to be a bust because that civ got eliminated just as it was finishing (I lucked out; they died one turn after.) Very few beakers for that one. Later I was so far ahead in science that I didn't pursue them because I didn't think they would yield anything. 300 gold for 2 turns worth of beakers, and I wouldn't even get that if it finished when I only had one turn left on the current tech.

I may play this one again, do everything the same up to the Renaissance except build more academies. From the Renaissance to the end focus everything on food and science, rush buying schools, hospitals, etc. I can come back and work on Patronage after getting 3 in Rationalism; by then the CS science might be worth something.
 
considering the only viable tiles for the academies were sheep which gives you one food, so it's probably more important to just prioritize growth wonders.
That's interesting. I haven't put academies on sheep, but on grassland. And two more on desert hills.
I got GL first, then ToA, Petra, HG, CI, Alhambra, Pisa, Notre Dame (i only added it because it was 5 turns at that point, and no one had built it yet).
I got almost the same, but HG before Petra, and Oracle before Chichen Itza. I've got both Pisa and Porcelain. Also got Sistine and Sydney Opera, but then I was already full on food focus. I rushed Hubble with a GE. I even built ISS, and had one spare GS after it. I ran 5 or 6 RA's, 2 were after both Porcelain and Ratio finisher. I got Scholasticism pretty late, though.

I'd say the biggest thing is that education/rationalism thing. No reason to go for Iron Working, really.
I can't believe Iron Working cost me 50 turns to victory. And yeah, I thought I would need lots of money, but in the end, between Big Ben and Commerce, the spaceship parts where so cheap! And even then I had spare time for hard-building while I was doing research. Oh well, now I'll know to beeline Education from the get go.

Maybe I'll replay it later just to see if I can get < 270 turn victory.
 
I only signed one RA the whole game, and it almost turned out to be a bust because that civ got eliminated just as it was finishing (I lucked out; they died one turn after.) Very few beakers for that one. Later I was so far ahead in science that I didn't pursue them because I didn't think they would yield anything. 300 gold for 2 turns worth of beakers, and I wouldn't even get that if it finished when I only had one turn left on the current tech.

Well the RAs do feel like, no they are, a rip-off ;) - but who cares?
If money is not an issue and if they do shape off at least one turn, maybe even only if several together achieve this...then sign and pay them! ;)
That is, if you want to win fast.
 
I did not submit my save file, as I did not complete my game. I would have won for sure - I was 15 or maybe 20 techs more advanced than the second civ - , but maybe also with an unwanted diplomacy victory. I wa saround turn 240 when I dropped the game, as I did some crucial mistakes. But let me start with the good stuff...

Of course, this start is a dream. Ruins were amazing, giving me culture, +2 population, and some faith (+ faith from CS allowed me to introduce Desert Folklore early - in retrospective, I should have gone for Fertility Rites).

I made some early mistakes which wer ejust plain stupid - I'm ill and you see it in my game. I got my first GS in the same turn I built my first worker, so what do I do? Make them exchange tiles, so they both just move one tile. ARGH. Also, i should have built some roads in my small empire so GS reach their perfect spots faster, but I don't know if that'd changed much.

I went Writing (built GL) -> Philosophy (built Oracle) -> Education -> Astronomy. Maybe I should have switched the latter two, the observatory boost was enormous, but then I could not have built Oxford so early, so maybe it was all good.

SO far, so good. I made some small mistakes here and there, GS came dropping in, trade never really went off until turn 150 or so. One fatal mistake was going for democracy before completing rationalism which I only realized a bit too late. The biggest mistake was probably, after Scientific Theory, to head directly to Apollo. I just forgot that Research Labs existed.. argh. Well, that took too long, basically. I was then around turn 240 and have built Apollo, but research for the other parts would have taken probably 100 turns more, so I went to bed. I'm feeling a little better now, but this game is still giving me headaches. I was lured in by the low difficulty (after trying to master Immortal on a consistent basis and getting always razed by Huns, Mongols and Germans) and did not take it 100% serious. I had a great location, with iron and later aluminum, and encountered a glitch, my CS allies did not give me coal.

Maybe I'll replay this map again, but I don't think it could have went better than it did. I just made some bad decisions. :/
 
I played it again last night. Science victory in 309 turns. The AI's took different policies and behaved totally different this time (most of them took Tradition this time)

I think the one mistake that kept me from a sub-300 victory was a couple of times when I bought a new science building, I forgot to assign a specialist and then noticed it a few turns later. That probably cost me one GS, because I was about to get another one when I finished the game.

Even tho' this time I got the right victory condition (I could have gotten diplomatic again but I held off getting those last 2 CS allies until after the world leader vote) and my number of turns was better, it wasn't as fun of a game. There was very little fighting; I was not involved in any wars at all. And on the other continent Assyria was taken out early instead of Rome, I don't know by whom.

Russia survived and was friendly the whole game (except right at the end when everybody denounced me) but was determined to stamp out my religion. At one point I had a dozen cities following Buddhism, but at the end it was just Babylon, and it wouldn't even have been that except I had an inquisitor parked there. Whenever a CS flipped to my religion (trade routes, mostly) she would send several missionaries there. I was still getting lots of gold from Tithe just from my city, and extra growth, and tons of extra faith from the Great Temple, wonders, and a holy site.

Edit: Just one more thing. I had an infantry get upgraded to a mechanized infantry by a goody hut. :lol:
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1952AD
Turns played: 372
Base score: 1439
Final score: 1944
Time played: 6:03:00

My first OCC and it went surprisingly smoothly. Not one war on my continent between anyone all game. Near the end Rome wiped out Assyria and then the Zulus nearly wiped out Rome, but it didn't affect me. I was always the leader for world congress and UN, and by the end of the game I was allies with all city-states. I had to hold back delegates on the world leader proposal just so I wouldn't get a diplomatic victory.

Did you use your UU?
My first ruins changed my scout, but that was about it.

How useful was your UA?
Extremely useful. By the end of the game I was getting scientists from faith and the capital, and I was lucky to get a couple from city-states.

Did you use spying to your advantage?
Mostly just defense once I took the lead in tech.

Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
It kept the warmongering civs on another continent, so I guess it helped that way.

How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I never really gave it much thought. I just played the best I could.

Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?
For buying great people, yes. Didn't get any faith wonders.

What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full Tradition, Rationalism, and Patronage. Liberty for the worker and some Commerce. I chose Freedom to get the purchasing spaceship parts.

What techs did you prioritize ?
Anything science related, and then growth and culture as secondary.

How many academies did you build?
I built 3. Probably should have built another one or two.
 

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I assume this was pretty slow since i didn't have many research agreements. But it was fun. Babylon achieved sum numbers for production, gold, culture that I have not seen in years if ever.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Date submitted: 2016-03-24 15:54:48
Reference number: 34137
Your name: jshelr
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1928AD
Turns played: 348
Base score: 1595
Final score: 2311
Time played: 4:33:00
Submitted save: Nebuchadnezzar II_0349 AD-1929.Civ5Save
Renamed file: jshelr_C513101.Civ5Save
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 131
Reference number: 34143
Your name: belligerent
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1931AD
Turns played: 351
Base score: 1585
Final score: 2264
Time played: 4:37:00

- Did you use your UU?


Kind of. I built three early on to keep for defense later. Used them to help clear a couple of barb camps. Also got a free Bowman from a ruin.

- How useful was your UA?

Very. As always with Nebby. Settled first GS on sheep/hill.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?


I had the tech lead early, so my first spy went to defense. Rest went to rigging CS elections.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?

I mean, this was probably the ideal map start except for lack of coal, but that only delayed ideology by about 10 turns or so. Desert was huge with DF and Petra. Some early turns I was working two food tiles, or 2f 1faith tiles, which isn't ideal, but I don't know how much difference it made

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

Spam wonders. I probably should've gone after GL or ToA, but didn't focusing instead on getting Granary, caravans rolling early. Beelined for Petra and Hanging Gardens and got both. After that, I got every wonder I wanted, some I didn't (Red Fort for the hell of it). Normally playing on Imm I don't get anything until later or maybe pyramids/HG/SoZ early on, so wonder spam was an adjustment.

Also never had a happiness problem. Ended somewhere in the +90s, but was selling all of my luxes (even the ones I "needed") and strategics early on, which helped me purchase CS alliances (cultural and eventually maritime when I found them).

Finally, I never worried about attack. No one settled anywhere near me.

All of those are different from what I'm used to on Imm.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Did you build any faith wonders?

Yes. Got the two faith CS early for free DF pantheon before T10. Religion was early on, got Tithe and S2P, which offset not going for ToA. Also took shrine/temple food and RT later. Eventually had enough SP to get a reformation belief late which I used for more GP.

The GP purchasing late let me buy a couple of GA which helped me stay perma-Golden Age for the vast majority of the time from turn 200 on.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?

Tradition (full) > Patronage (Opener + Philanthropy) > Rationalism (Full) >

Ideology break - Freedom - Avante Garde + Civil Society > New Deal > Covert Action > Universal Sufferage > Space Procurement

Back to Patronage (Full) > Exploration (Full except free GA) > Piety (Full) > Aesthetics opener

At some point I took two more Freedom policies as well. By the end, I just had silly amounts of culture and SPs.

- What techs did you prioritize ?

Standard science beelines, except early on I wanted Petra so beelined Currency after writing. (Got mining from ruins). I also took Sailing and Optics earlier than normal for boats and lighthouse purchases. Made those fish tiles yuuuge.

- How many academies did you build?

Only the first one on the sheep hill by the coast. In retrospect, I wonder if this is why others were able to finish much faster. I "bulbed" all of my other GS, where maybe I should've settled a couple more early ones. I'm used to bulbing all GS with my normal warmonger HCA playstyle, so maybe that slowed down my eventual victory.


I had a huge tech lead; I was generating a SP every 10 turns or so. I could've won much earlier with a DV, but SV was prescribed, so... I had perma-golden age for most of the time past turn 200 thanks to CI, Taj Mahal, GAs, and insane levels of happiness in general. I think I finished with something like 35000 gold after buying all space parts and 5 nuclear missiles just for the hell of it.

So... that leads me to believe that I've got the "gameplay" part down up to Deity, but not the "winning" part down. I need to figure out how to win faster without just straight domination before I can be a Deity regular.

All in all, this Babs was probably my best individual city, but the victory was kind of slow. I clearly wasn't teching as fast as some of you other guys, and I'm going to parse through the posts to try to figure out why!


Edit: I'm guessing part of the slowness was related to a general lack of RAs to take advantage of PT and Rationalism. I think I only made three (two China, one Russia) the whole game. Might've been my own fault for robbing them all blind of their gold selling luxes and strategics.
 
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