TSG 252 Opening Actions

vadalaz

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This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

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- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
 
Early game complete (National College on Turn 96) ...
- What did you think about before starting the game, (What the heck should I do?) what was your approach to this game? (none set at the beginning other than an eventual tourism win, of course)
- Where did you settle and what did you build first? (SIP, scout)
- What tech path did you follow and why? (lux, trading route, science, coliseums, workshops - standard approach for NC - after that, was relying on short-term ally for happiness - then, growth too big for production plus want to generate an engineer)
- What Social Policies did you choose? (Tradition 6, Aesthetics opener)
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick? (Yes - T18 Tears of the Gods, T53 Title and Religious Community, T81 Pagodas and Religious Texts)

Initial Scouting (opening policy based on planned expansions)
Spoiler :
Can't wait to see how others expand - my plan should have been better. SIP because a T1 settle on the gems might have been worse, so why waste the turn and hope? Two scouts then the stele. No culture ruins, so my first policy wasn't until Turn 19. My scouting should have been better, but I was looking at ...

Turn 19 Screenshot (annotated with expansion plans)
Spoiler :

TSG252-T19 Tradition Plan-annotated.jpg


Was considering Liberty with six unique easily available (plus a seventh if I rush a settler and buy Panama City's spices). Couldn't really find five expansion locations that I wanted plus didn't want to upset Bismark, so I decided for a 5-City Tradition instead. The chosen locations would give six unique lux, seven of my regional (each with +2 faith from Tears of the Gods), an extra silk, and possibly up to two extra citrus. Excellent choice on 'A' with three zero yield tiles in the first ring but the natural wonder helps make up for it a bit (location chosen because it probably wouldn't upset Bismark and easily defended if it did).

Expansion Fun
Spoiler :
Was late with the first settler since I built the stele and a worker (and two scouts). Didn't take long to figure out two of my expansions were contested (plus a third since the marble was in Panama City's third ring). But, sometimes, everything just falls into place ...

Turn 25 Screenshot - Settler Invasion
Spoiler :

TSG252-T25 AI Settlers.jpg


Have to DOW Gustavus to stop his settler, but why not let the barbarian do the dirty work against Bismark? Move the archer (upgraded scout) to the flat grassland behind the settler, and then the barb can take it! Easy kill by my archer after the barb captures the settler, so the only worry is if Bismark (or anyone else) has a unit within range after the kill. Unfortunately, sometimes things don't quite work as planned ...

Turn 26 Screenshot - Unreliable Assistance
Spoiler :

TSG252-T26 Unpredictable Barbarians.jpg


Well, that sucked. I'm way too late for a CB rush, and if Bismark's forward settling me, I'm probably in trouble.

But, somehow, it still worked out (no screenshots for this part). For whatever reason, Bismark did not want to settle that exact spot. Don't know where it went, but the new city did not pop up on Turn 27. It was captured (by the healthy barb), and I eventually tracked it down. If I had known I was getting three steals (Panama City, Gustavus, Bismark, I wouldn't have built that worker in the capital. Of course, if I had got my first settler earlier, maybe those AI settlers aren't available. Who knows?

Regardless, my first settler goes for the gems ('B' on the Turn 19 screenshot), and my second settler takes shelter in the mountains and mines ('A'). My third settler was on the way for the marble near Panama City, but one turn before I get there (two turns before I could settle it), the marble goes to Panama City. A future general could steal both the marble and spices, but there's no guarantee I'd get a general - certainly not anytime soon. More importantly, I was already having second thoughts about that city - it's a low production special.

I don't like giving up the two copies of gems, but I turn that settler around and head for the desert gold - I guess I had earlier decided to make that a post-NC expansion, but now it's just a standard (albeit, late) 4-City Tradition game. Had massive barb problems on my way down there, but finally, 16 turns after initially heading out from the capital, I found the fourth city.

Turn 66 Screenshot - Ethopia's Empire
Spoiler :

TSG252-T66 Better Late Than Never (maybe).jpg



Post Expansion (Rounding Out the Early Game)
Spoiler :
So, this didn't quite work out as intended, but I think losing the marble saved me from a terrible city. Despite the late final city, I think I'm in pretty good shape. Took Aristocracy on Turn 71 and immediately started on the Oracle. Completed Turn 83 and finished Tradition with the bonus policy. Started immediately on the National College which finished on Turn 96 (worked more food tiles during that time). Meanwhile, the first two expansions finished three food caravans (capital, fourth city, capital) plus two coliseums and two more workers. Researched Metal Casting on Turn 96, so starting workshops now.

Turn 96 Screenshot - Early Game Complete!
Spoiler :

TSG252-T96 Early Game Complete.jpg



Plans
Spoiler :

Religion:
* Missionary next turn - spread to Laubela (to finally get the pantheon) and Adwa.
* Pagodas after that, but I'm not going to delay Renaissance for cheaper faith purchases. Might get all four anyway even without delaying (going for Acoustics entry).
* Future prophets mix between plant and spread to Gustavus and Bismark (neither have a religion).
* Faith scientists unlikely, but will use faith engineers for good wonders (Eiffel, Statue presuming I go Freedom)

Tech Plan:
* Education into Acoustics
* Want to hard generate an engineer in the capital, so prioritizing garden - Theology before Currency
* At some point, need to decide if I want to arty one (or more) of my neighbors. Probably not since that's the wrong side of the tree (Archaeology seems important for tourism).
* Could go for great war bombers instead if I want to take over some of Gustavus's or Bismark's land. (Berlin within range - Stockholm either with range or via Helsinki and Sigtuna)

Renaissance Wonders:
* Sistine highest priority (plan on engineering if contested or too long of a build)
* If I miss out on Sistine, Uffizi becomes the highest priority.
* Either way, Leaning Tower is the second priority - don't think I need Sistine and Uffizi. Hermitage also has a theming bonus, afterall.

Modern Wonders:
* Eiffel
* Statue or Prora
* Broadway only if not working on anything better
 
No time for a proper spoiler, but some scattered facts are perhaps not entirely worthless.

I settled on the gems only one step from the coast. From huts I most significantly got two population boosts and 2×20 culture. it was a balance act churning out scouts, Pangea being the most lucrative map type for huts, and building a stele soon enough. The Stele being rather cheap, I decided to build only one scout before the stele. This worked well because I got desert folklore before anyone else got their pantheon.

I started on the tradition tree with a bit of an open mind. When I was almost through it all, no AI had started on the piety tree, so I am trying for reformation and sacred sites. If I get it, I will get it too late to win with the city spamming strategy, and the aesthetics tree will be sorely missed, but I thought it would be fun to do a combined effort with aesthetics. The AI are racing down the lower path of the tech tree, so on turn 100 I am hopeful of getting Hagia Sophia (9t) and Great mosque (10t). I have national college and oracle. Germany are about to declare war and I am three turns away from Composite bowmen. I have five or six archers. it sounds little but should be enough. In fact, I hope to take over cologne, which they cheekily settled next to the eastern citrus. Pagodas and cathedrals are sprouting up, 2 to 3 policies from Reformation, And I have five cities. What makes it interesting in relation to the German situation, is that one of them is next to Mount Kailash. I couldn’t resist settling my fifth city there….
 
Continued.
Edit: I hadn’t settled the Mt Kailash town yet at the time of the German backstabbing. I was on the way to do it, not sure it was safe.

There was an earlier war with Germany, because I captured a lone settler heading for Solomon’s Mines, but then we became friends.

All other workers came from Wittenburg, 4-5 on turn 100. City States were rather lucrative, as they tend to be on Pangea, especially Kiev who shot a camp to smithereens and let my scout walk right in and liberate their worker.
 
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Excellent choice on 'A' with three zero yield tiles in the first ring but the natural wonder helps make up for it a bit (location chosen because it probably wouldn't upset Bismark and easily defended if it did).
I chose almost the same spot (one tile further SW) and what you said is exactly why I didn't think the German invasion would be a problem. They simply can't attack with enough units at the same time with three mountains, the lake, and the impassable mines in the way. Still, that's where the attack commenced.
 
I got 2 pop ruins so i started on a settler quite fast. I had a scout around germany, and STILL he sneaked a settler past and settled king solomons mines, where i was going to with my settler. Then he sent a food caravan there and that city exploded in pop. He was snowballing hard, i declared war on him very early but it was a heavy and long fight. I was trying so hard to pillage his food caravan but he kept coming with dangerous units for my archers. Eventually i captured the city and I had to make peace with him because he was coming up with already 3 pikemen, really scary. Like 1 or 2 turns after that he wanted to be friends... I took friendship, hopefully he's not gonna backstab.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
Tradition, probably not sacred sites. When I saw how cramped the map was with dangerous warmongers so close I was sure it's not gonna be a SS game.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
SiP, scout -> stele

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Standard stuff, but I did go for comp bows before national college because of that damn bismarck.

- What Social Policies did you choose?
Full tradition.

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Pantheon gems faith, because it's faster online then desert folklore. Endgame i will probably have a bit less faith.
Tithe + pagoda's.
Then i bought 1 pagoda.
Next was a prophet for enhance: religious texts + cathedrals (other 2 buildings gone).
Now gonna fill out pagoda's and then cathedrals.

I got national college a bit before turn 100. I'm gonna focus on grand temple now, want to build it for once and oracle is gone to america. Gonna focus on food trade routes, science and the guilds. Hopefully not gonna get dowed.

Spoiler :
1725358609589.png
 
I got 2 pop ruins so i started on a settler quite fast. I had a scout around germany, and STILL he sneaked a settler past and settled king solomons mines, where i was going to with my settler. Then he sent a food caravan there and that city exploded in pop. He was snowballing hard, i declared war on him very early but it was a heavy and long fight. I was trying so hard to pillage his food caravan but he kept coming with dangerous units for my archers. Eventually i captured the city and I had to make peace with him because he was coming up with already 3 pikemen, really scary. Like 1 or 2 turns after that he wanted to be friends... I took friendship, hopefully he's not gonna backstab.
Similar to my DOW against Gustavus. Not the actual war part - he offered peace quickly (no army involved from either side except the single settler steal). He offered DOF 1 or 2 turns after peace, so I accept. I don't feel safe (he's also friends with Bismark and Washington).
 
Spoiler :
I took friendship, hopefully he's not gonna backstab.
This is a very interesting part of the game and may get even more interesting if we make it to where spies appear and the who-is-plotting-against-who subterfudges. The friendliness is likely to come with a deception flag (and Bismarck doesn't hide it very well when it comes to his graphic appearance and voice, does he? You've got to love the reddening of his face. :))
 
I had a good start. My warrior went east, found Germany and fairly soon stole a worker. My scout went north, became a scout archer, and fairly quickly store a worker there too. Both units hung around for a second steal, which they obtained after not too long a wait. After making peace, I kept my units around their borders to help spot and possibly delay settlers. For Germany, this proved unnecessary, since he was attempting Great Library (but failed it), but unfortunately a Swedish settler managed to sneak through.
Helsinki.jpg

This was not the end of the world, as I could still settle Solomon's by planting next to the bison, but my plan had been the max greed settle a little south east of Helsinki, to grab some bananas and Bismarck's citrus - not sure that would have been a good idea anyway, but of course Helsinki does steal tiles from my city, unless at some point I burn it.

My early game was scout - stele - scout. With such an amazing UB, I did not want to wait until the free monument from tradition. The delay of my second scout did mean that I had not scouted west at all, and I missed the desert coastal spot with two gems and a gold (the second scout was needed to defend from barbarians). After getting my four tradition cities down, the question was what to do next. I had decent production, but building wonders was out of the question, as the AI was doing too well. Sometimes I like to try for Mausoleum, but it went quite early. I did put some turns into Hanging Gardens, but it was built in a faraway land. I only managed to get Oracle (I managed to offload it to the Solomon's expand), and to make sure I had Sweden declare war on Germany, since Bismarck was attempting it too.

So if not wonders, what then? Since I also had some gold, I started building some archers, then researched construction to upgrade to composite bowmen. Stockholm had built Colossus, and since it was only 23 strength, I decided to go for it. Around turn 86 my army drew near, and what did I spot inside Swedish borders? Crossbowmen, yikes! I managed to persuade Sweden to also declare war on Babylon, even if it cost me 318 flat gold (we had a declaration of friendship that was about to expire). Of course I would have preferred a gpt deal that I could break the next turn, but I had nothing left to give; no luxuries, no strategic resources, no gold per turn. Since I had upgraded most of my units already, I decided the gold would be worth it. Indeed it was. Sweden hardly had any units left to defend, so I managed to take Stockholm quite easily.

In the screenshot, I have another decision to make. Because I did not move my units correctly, I did not kill the swordsman, so there is a chance the capital is recaptured next turn. Alternatively, I could take a peace deal (he is currently offering Helsinki). I think I will take the peace deal, and then decide on a good moment to go after Germany. Berlin has Temple of Artemis and Parthenon so that's a good prize - but no unique luxuries that I already have. A final decision I will have to make: do I still found that second coastal city? It feels weird not to settle such good land, although I'm not sure that city will actually help my game. Of course, if I don't settle it, the AI certainly will (I already have an American settler hanging around my lands).
Stockholm captured.png
 
- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
  • Thought about how not to die.
  • I wanted to get 4 cities together that could be defended well.
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
  • Moved the warriror SE and didn't see anything worth moving so SiP. Then moved the warriro again and saw the coast; darn, that may have been worth moving for - turns out not though.
  • Build order was Scout, Stele, Scout.
  • Ruins were Map, Spear, Pop, Barbs, Culture
- What tech path did you follow and why?
  • Skipped Pottery since we have the Stele and went for AH, Archery, Mining, BW.
- What Social Policies did you choose?
  • Full Tradition into Aesthetics.
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
  • Yes, but...
    • T13 Met Wittenburg, nice I can get DF next turn.
    • T14 Dagnabit! Someone took DF.
    • I hadn't scouted enough to see all the gems around so I went with Fertility Rights. Also, Tithe, Happiness from Gardens since all my cities were going to be on rivers or lakes, the Hermitage one (never took that before), Interant Preachers.
    • China got a religion on T28, not a pantheon, a religion! How on earth does that happen?
It was going pretty well until I messed up by DoW'ing Bismark because he was moving a settler toward a spot I wanted. It was guarded with a warrior, but I had a spearman so figured I could take it before he got to the spot. Except he was smart and backtracked and settled a suboptimal city and I failed to get the settler. To make matters worse, Bismark wouldn't offer peace except for a city - and I should have just let his settler go because I didn't even end up settling a city down on the gold on the coast. I didn't realize I had better options to the west. I figured I'd be ok because I didn't see that many German units; and also Bismark and China DoW'd Napoleon so I figured the German Army would be busy in the east. But then...
Spoiler T75 Lost Harar :
T75 Lost Harar.jpg

Spoiler T88 Recaptured Harar :
T88 Recaptured Harar.jpg


Worst part was I lost my free Stele and my Library. So that set me back. But its T100 and I'll have the NC in 7 turns. I'll need to build one more city on the Gems on the west coast and then I'll be ready to gear up to seek revenge on Bismark.
 

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Wow this is tough. Its turn 142, I'm still in Medieval and someone just completed Uffizi... should I continue playing?

FWIW, I went 4 city tradition and I'm in a perma-war with Germany. I could have (ab)used the white peace bug but decided not to, and I'm not willing to give him a city for peace. I have Crossbows, and for now, my defenses are holding.

He's sending me a stream of unescorted settlers to enslave. However the first German Knights are now appearing on my doorstep. I wonder how much longer this can go on...
 
Wow this is tough. Its turn 142, I'm still in Medieval and someone just completed Uffizi... should I continue playing?

..
Of course I would like you to continue. However, I must say that t142 Uffizi is very early for the AI. I would normally expect the AIs to build it around t150-155. More worrying is that you are still in Medieval. It is much easier to get a peaceful CV on Deity, if you have researched Printing Press or Acoustics by t130 or so.
 
This is a very interesting part of the game and may get even more interesting if we make it to where spies appear and the who-is-plotting-against-who subterfudges. The friendliness is likely to come with a deception flag (and Bismarck doesn't hide it very well when it comes to his graphic appearance and voice, does he? You've got to love the reddening of his face. :))
On this topic, I’ve heard of something called the Enhanced UI moDLC. Is it permitted in Gotm? Of course I could try it in some other game, but I rarely take the time to play anything besides Gotm.
 
People have been using EUI in GOTM and HOF games for a long time now. From EUI's download page:
No changes to gameplay, no effect on saved game load, no effect on game saves, can earn achievements, works in multiplayer, and provides no additional information to the player that is not already available somewhere (except when using the extended demographics panel).

So it's fine as long as you don't use this extended demographics panel to gain additional info.
Demographics: new module to provide detailed history graphs and replay map in-game (works with existing game saves, does not touch future game saves, unlike Robb's InfoAddict mod). This is a departure from EUI's philosophy to remain within the information bounds of what the base UI provides. Unlike the end game graphs and replay map, you can only see information concerning civilizations you have met and map plots you have seen, but that's still loads of extra info compared to the base game. So if you do not want this extra info, simply delete this folder (or simply don't click the new demographics dropdown menu).
 
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Of course I would like you to continue. However, I must say that t142 Uffizi is very early for the AI. I would normally expect the AIs to build it around t150-155. More worrying is that you are still in Medieval. It is much easier to get a peaceful CV on Deity, if you have researched Printing Press or Acoustics by t130 or so.
In my game Uffizi was built on t175 (by whom I won't disclose here)
 
Of course I would like you to continue.
I'm hanging on for now, it was more of a rhetorical question as in, "Do I still have a chance?"

I decided the only (slim) chance I have is by going full aggro and conquering the cultural wonders I need, since they were all taken before I even got the techs. No idea if that's doable but I'm still fighting, currently marching on Berlin...
 
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