TSG 266 After Actions

vadalaz

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Sep 15, 2014
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In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

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- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- What did you think about the map type?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
 
T215 diplo victory. For the second evening of playing, my head was back in the game, and I made far fewer mistakes. I went Astronomy before Printing Press to meet the city states, although perhaps that was not ambitious enough. In the end I had a couple of turns to spare before hitting the Information Era, so before the second vote of the World Congress. It would not surprise me to see significantly faster finish times, not only by people having a quicker early game, but also perhaps one or two players might pull off an atomic era victory after killing some of the AI (I forgot how many you need to kill to trigger the vote in the Atomic era).

I went for Industrialization before public schools, perhaps lulled into a false sense of security that in most GotM games, coal would be nearby. There is a coal node in Jakarta, and there is a node a little bit further on the coast to the east. That area is pretty bleak unless you get Petra there - which might be a valid play since there is also a marble there. Some city states had coal too, but mostly not easy to obtain (i.e., the coal node is on an already improved hill, and then you have to wait for the AI to reach Industrialization, which was never going to happen).

I did make the decision to capture Jakarta for the coal (we were anyway already at war over annoying prophets). I built a knight, a gatling gun, a trebuchet, and I upgraded a bowman to a gatling, which along with my starting warrior, upgraded to longsword was enough for Indonesia, and also to continue to Braga, which had built Petra and same-turned me on Machu Picchu. Actually, I got Braga in a peace deal. It was too late in the game for any other meaningful war, so I played peacefully after that. Actually, most AI were surprisingly friendly with me, with was useful for occasional gold trades and luxury deals, especially with the Dutch. It's often useful to have them in the game, so you can trade for his last luxury for a luxury of your own plus 5gpt (as he retains half happiness when he trades away a luxury).

Some struggles I had in this game were gold and happiness. I built Forbidden Palace a bit late, not in time for the first vote, and I not only did not get my religion passed, but also had to allow the AI to ban marble. That meant I never achieved a natural golden age. I was only a few points off, but when I got Braga (9 pop, no unique luxury), it dropped me very low again. As I reached the Information Era, I had finally managed to buy and ally all CS, and then I had 10 turns to wait. I decided to build some wonders in my 'spare time' (Himeji, Red Fort, Taj, CN Tower (extra pop!), but lost Globe), as score is a tie breaker.

One final interesting thing in this game: after making peace with Portugal they were 'Afraid' of me for some turns. I have not seen that often outside of having nukes, and I did not even had a lot of army (I think I was only third in army).

On the final vote I had 47 votes with 40 required (all CS, World Ideology (Freedom), and 5 diplomats with Globalization. Votes to spare, then, but it did make me think that it might be difficult to get all required votes if you do manage to trigger in Atomic, as my gold got going quite late.
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I'm a bit embarrassed to post another entry before anyone seems to have completed their game. Clearly, I have way too much time on my hands. It's not that I completed another game, although I did start two of them. Playing around with this game a bit more, I do feel I've learned a few things (which I will conveniently forget again in time for the next GotM diplomacy challenge):
  • Getting the vote in Atomic era and reaching the world leader vote within one cycle of the world congress is beyond me. I tried an approach with early (-ish) bowmen to start taking out the AI, but my game was just way too slow. The warring was going Ok (although Great Wall Alexander was putting up some resistance), but with 10 turns until the first vote I did not even have public schools yet. Perhaps the idea of the one-cycle approach is to really delay Printing Press (although not too much either, otherwise there is no point) and bulk up more than I did. Anyway, you would also have to find and ally all city states of course.
  • Due to Babylon's extra scientist generation, combined with these reasonably good lands, reaching the world leader vote within two Congress cycles should be doable for my level of play, so then it becomes matter of rushing Printing Press. In the screenshot below, I have a nice game going (T127, just researched Printing Press, having had a much stronger early game than my original submission, and yet I did not properly rush Printing Press: I went workshops first because I wanted Colossus. Both workshops and Colossus are nice, but that approach will only pay off later (if at all); instead it's probably better to rush NC and universities. Moreover, I have two scientists standing around. For a science victory game, it is of course best to keep them, but here I could just have bulbed them to reach Printing Press a couple of turns earlier! (not sure if the second scientist would then have spawned in time)
  • Hence, my take is that the best approach for this game would be to 4 cities (maybe even 3), as the fifth city probably only slowed down the early timing, and rush unversities. I'm curious to see if this month's winner will indeed follow that plan (granted, not than outlandish of a strategy).
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Getting the vote in Atomic era and reaching the world leader vote within one cycle of the world congress is beyond me. I tried an approach with early (-ish) bowmen to start taking out the AI, but my game was just way too slow. The warring was going Ok (although Great Wall Alexander was putting up some resistance), but with 10 turns until the first vote I did not even have public schools yet. Perhaps the idea of the one-cycle approach is to really delay Printing Press (although not too much either, otherwise there is no point) and bulk up more than I did. Anyway, you would also have to find and ally all city states of course.
Yes, in a one-cycle game usually you need to delay PP. Warring early can work well on some maps, but on this one I feel the AI capitals are too far away. I'd wait for XBs and Trebuchets and build two armies.

Your T127 looks really, really good. It's been a long time since I played these, but I believe a setup like that in a one-cycle game should lead to a comfortable sub-190 finish (T140-141 Printing Press) and maybe even a narrow sub-180, although you'd need more units and efficient conquest for that. Sometimes the toughest part of the race can be generating enough culture to finish Rationalism, or faith to purchase scientists. Fast diplo games can be quite exciting.

You can make it easier by taking cities in peace deals and razing them early on, so that there are fewer of them to chew through when you begin the actual conquest. Maximum cheese is letting someone else do the razing for you, e.g. in HoF games you can choose Attila as an opponent and just feed him cities...
 
Turn 357 diplo. Everything seemed so slow compared to the Vienna game; was that one quick pace?

I sent my warrior east to take a peek, then settled on the incense and started building a scout. Continued east and found El Dorado! My warrior explored around El Dorado a bit to find a good spot for a city and I bought a settler as soon as I hit 2 pop. My first scout headed NW and found Kilimanjaro. So I started building another settler right after the shrine and second scout; meanwhile my scout explored close to K. to be ready to block (and hopefully steal) any Russian settlers headed that way. BTW, the ancient ruins were terrible this game; "evidence of barbarians" is all I got, although I can't complain too much after El Dorado. With 2 natural wonders, I picked One With Nature for my pantheon, and I made Akkad my holy city instead of Babylon. My goals were to build Hanging Gardens since Babylon had no fresh water, and Great Lighthouse to help exploration.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
I stole 2 workers in the ancient era, and later I declared war on Portugal just to stop a prophet from converting my cities before I could get inquisitors out. Other than that I played peacefully until near the end, when I had to do something about Alexander. I totally eliminated him, resurrecting Russia and liberating a Dutch city. William denounced me soon after that and I was tempted to eliminate him too.

- What did you think about the map type?
I had a sneaking suspicion that this might be an April Fools' map and the joke was there are no city states. 😂

- Which ideology did you pick?
Freedom. But as soon as I took Treaty Organization for my 3rd-level tenet, the AIs pushed Embargo City States and I couldn't block it.

- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
I settled the 3 mentioned earlier, and they were growing so fast I had trouble keeping them happy. There was a spot to the west that I liked but William got there first. I settled a 4th city much later to grab some coal; sent it 2 trade routes and bought a workshop, and it quickly turned into a really good city. Then in the atomic era I took all Greece, razing one city. I think I ended with 9 cities.

Almost all the AIs went Piety. The constant flood of missionaries and prophets was really annoying. I had inquisitors posted at all my cities to keep them away. I used an inquisitor for an artillery spotter against Greece, LOL.

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One final post from me :).

@zxcvbob yes, the Austria game was quick speed. My ruin hauls were better than yours, but the AIs scouting with their warriors was somewhat erratic, and even with map knowledge I did not manage to grab a lot of them.

I decided to put my money (or rather, my seemingly infinite time) where my mouth is, to try and get a fast victory using a 4-city Printing Press rush. The rush was mostly successful: T111 Printing Press is probably a record for me (taking full advantage of map knowledge of course, including some ruin locations). It wasn't all roses and sunshine, though, as I struggled with happiness as can be seen from the screen shot. Also, I lost Oracle turn 93 to Maria (I had paused Oracle to build a university in the capital), pretty unlucky for King difficulty I feel. (Ok, I could have been checking capitals for the wonder, but it took me completely by surprise). I bulbed one scientist to reach printing press, the second one (technically the third if you count the writing one) spawned a few turns later.

However, I did not quite reach information era by the end of the second World Congress cycle. As the second screen shot shows, I was off by about 6 turns and one scientist - exactly the six turns I had 'gained' by bulbing for Printing Press. One thing that did strike me about such a quick play, is how little time you have to build everything. In the end, some cities did not even have gardens, the capital did not have a national epic, I did not have temples everywhere - all things that I would normally like to get and can manage to fit into the build queue. Also, I took pagodas as an enhancer for my religion, but I did not manage to buy them all: my faith production was mediocre early on, and I found myself in Industrial very quickly, when the pagodas start to get expensive. Perhaps a mistake was to go for World's Fair, as that stretched my production even further, although I did need to find culture somewhere, especially having lost Oracle.

I did finish the game, btw, for a 212 diplomatic victory, though a sub-190 might have been possible without the early scientist bulb.

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I had to wait 26 turns after forming the UN for the first world leader vote. I almost finished the whole tech tree in that time. 🙄 I think I ended up with 45 votes of my own and 4 from Russia (out of 40 necessary) Egypt still had one CS ally and I didn't want to spend 1000 gold to take it from them.
 
Turn 191 (190 vote) diplomatic win for me this month. I decided to play it safe and go for a 2-cycle Telecommunications strategy, Printing Press around turn 116 (normally a 2-cycle is 74 turns from PP and 1-cycle 48).

Lots of extortion wars. 3-city NC, took Utrecht in a peace deal for city 4 (William had settled it just where I planned to send a settler), and settled Nippur for city 5 and Petra (+CS quest) later on.

Tradition straight into Rationalism (Acoustics - GS#2), then tech to PP (GS#3). Finish Rationalism, Patronage (4 policies), Freedom (3 policies).

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I tried it again; put my cities in about the same places but settled Kilimanjaro before El Dorado and put it where I could build (buy) an observatory. And my 4th city, close but not too close to Carthage, a little sooner so it could build Petra. I was going to settle one more city to the west but Alex got there first and I didn't want to fight him for it because I was having trouble keeping 4 cities happy, even with Notre Dame, Chicken Itza, and Forbidden Palace, and pagodas all around. My national college was late; about turn 115 I think. I had a university in Babylon before I had NC. I beelined Telecommunications; did not even detour for Chemistry. I hit the industrial era via Archeology.

Once again the AIs pushed embargo city states thru; I have no idea why they do that. I hade 4 votes and they each had one; every single AI voted for it. At least this time it was way before I invested in Treaty Organization. Also other than stealing a worker from Alex, I played this one totally peacefully. I was friends with everybody, but I suspect if I JOMT the denouncements and backstabbings will come along shortly, the game just ended before we got that far. Some of them are already "Guarded" because I'm friends with their enemy.

I put my ships on auto-explore so prior knowledge of the map didn't affect finding all the city states. Of course it did influence everything else.

I made it to the information era just in time for the first world leader vote to come up in 13 turns! One more turn delay for Chemistry (etc) would have delayed it significantly. I won DV on turn 297 this time. I'm pleased with that. I have no idea how some of you got below 200.

ETA: For some reason F12 is not saving screenshots anymore. So I took them the old fashioned way with Alt-PrtSc, that's why they look a little different:

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I beelined Telecommunications; did not even detour for Chemistry. I hit the industrial era via Archeology.
I won DV on turn 297 this time. I'm pleased with that. I have no idea how some of you got below 200.
Well, so far only one sub-200 submission, but indeed from my replays I could tell that it was possible.
Skipping Chemistry is fine, but why enter Industrial through archeology? Likely the quickest route for science and diplo games is through Scientific Theory, although I sometimes go Industrialization to gamble on coal (which was absent this game unless you settled the Petra spot), hoping to get factories up and ideology going, and possibly get Big Ben with the aim of buying and building public schools faster. Even if you get coal, though, going public schools right away is probably quicker, but I like to get production in my cities going as quickly as possible.
 
Well, so far only one sub-200 submission, but indeed from my replays I could tell that it was possible.
Skipping Chemistry is fine, but why enter Industrial through archeology? Likely the quickest route for science and diplo games is through Scientific Theory, although I sometimes go Industrialization to gamble on coal (which was absent this game unless you settled the Petra spot), hoping to get factories up and ideology going, and possibly get Big Ben with the aim of buying and building public schools faster. Even if you get coal, though, going public schools right away is probably quicker, but I like to get production in my cities going as quickly as possible.
Because I always enter via Scientific Theory unless I have a *lot* of cities and feel lucky about coal, and I wanted to do it a little different. And I wanted to build the Louvre. 😂 It was on the critical path, but I probably should have done Scientific Theory first and got my public schools a few turns sooner; then I could have picked up Chemistry for the extra hammers once it got down to 1 turn to research. Also I wanted to get to Biology for hospitals for extra growth (by now I have happiness sort of under control) and to find oil, and my usual tech path gets to Biology pretty late.
 
and my usual tech path gets to Biology pretty late
Indeed. Hospitals and especially medical labs are actually pretty good, in the sense that your cities can grow quite quickly after that, but it's rarely a good idea to bee-line them or spend the gold or hammers on them so late in the game. OCC Internet rush for tourism might be the best use case.
 
t283 Diplo

It has been a while since I played and submitted this game, but I also took a break from it for some time after playing the initial turns. Diplo is probably my worst VC. I am understanding more about it but still don't have the toolset to be effective. My early game felt really slow. I stopped early on and started game 267 and then came back to this one, but felt I might not finish it. Diplo seems basically a Science victory coupled with optimizing the congress timing, and I'm bad there.

Short synopsis at this point. Killed Russia early and harassed Indonesia all game, taking Jakarta. I used a Trade>Commerce(3)>Ratio approach with some Patronage thrown in late. Order ideology for something different, but it really was not suited. Gold and happiness were issues for a very long time. I lost Great Library to Indonesia and was mad all game about it lol.

I now remember why I stopped playing plus maps years ago. The impact of not having some city-states online early was felt. I scouted the wrong way and did not start even meeting CSs for many turns early on. Late game it is just about getting their votes, as the bonuses are not as important, and I had everyone allied. But the dearth of bonuses early on was very impactful.

The most interesting thing is that Alex actually declared on me mid-to-late game. I'd bribed him into wars here and there, as I did some other AIs. (they were all ineffective) I had a good relationship most of the game but he is Alex. I was bit surprised but he was just a gnat. I quickly dispatched of him. But I was trying to bribe Willie on him, but he would not budge. I wanted to liberate Greece. Well, Willie, the opportunistic bloke he is, dow'd Alex with just one city. I stayed in long enough to take some shots on Corinth's defenses, then made peace and let Willie have it. Next turn I dow'd Willie and freed the Greeks, my eternal friend. (ofc, none of this is helping with diplo lol)

Spoiler :

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t283 Diplo

It has been a while since I played and submitted this game, but I also took a break from it for some time after playing the initial turns. Diplo is probably my worst VC. I am understanding more about it but still don't have the toolset to be effective. My early game felt really slow. I stopped early on and started game 267 and then came back to this one, but felt I might not finish it. Diplo seems basically a Science victory coupled with optimizing the congress timing, and I'm bad there.

Short synopsis at this point. Killed Russia early and harassed Indonesia all game, taking Jakarta. I used a Trade>Commerce(3)>Ratio approach with some Patronage thrown in late. Order ideology for something different, but it really was not suited. Gold and happiness were issues for a very long time. I lost Great Library to Indonesia and was mad all game about it lol.

I now remember why I stopped playing plus maps years ago. The impact of not having some city-states online early was felt. I scouted the wrong way and did not start even meeting CSs for many turns early on. Late game it is just about getting their votes, as the bonuses are not as important, and I had everyone allied. But the dearth of bonuses early on was very impactful.

The most interesting thing is that Alex actually declared on me mid-to-late game. I'd bribed him into wars here and there, as I did some other AIs. (they were all ineffective) I had a good relationship most of the game but he is Alex. I was bit surprised but he was just a gnat. I quickly dispatched of him. But I was trying to bribe Willie on him, but he would not budge. I wanted to liberate Greece. Well, Willie, the opportunistic bloke he is, dow'd Alex with just one city. I stayed in long enough to take some shots on Corinth's defenses, then made peace and let Willie have it. Next turn I dow'd Willie and freed the Greeks, my eternal friend. (ofc, none of this is helping with diplo lol)

Has William ever agreed to go to war in a milllion literal years??
 
Results for GOTM #266
Babylon / Diplomacy / King / Pangaea Plus

...Player.....................Turn
1. The_Black_Vegetable.........214 :trophy:
2. Yarin.......................263 :trophy2nd:
3. Megalou.....................275 :trophy3rd:
4. lymond......................282
5. Billick.....................373

More details can be found here. Please note: This list is generated automatically and only shows games that have been uploaded to the GOTM website.

Congratulations to the trophy winners and to all who played the game. Thank you for sharing your game and participating in the discussions! :goodjob:
 
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