TSG 270 After Actions

[vadalaz]

In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please attach your final savefile, state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Announcement thread | Opening actions

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Were the Incan unique abilities useful to you?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
- Which AI generated the most culture?

 

[qontroL]

I got my Culture win at T310 (yikes xd), I neglected Science completely thinkin I could win pretty quickly and I ended up getting really punished by a run-away Portugal who declared a surprise war on me and killed 2 of my Great Musicians who were on the way over for the Victory. A bit rough, Ill post screenshots later when I figure out where to find them.

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I ended up playing a peaceful game. Although it was extremely goofy. America kept declaring surprise wars on me but then getting completely wrecked immediately, the 2nd time he declared war on me he literally got ripped apart by my allied City-States. I was also surprise warred by both Portugal and France a few times, but they also just straight up lost to my City-State allies along the way towards me and then gave me Boston for free to end the war. I could've finished this game eons sooner I think, I got very greedy and rushed Autocracy and wanted to use the +250 spikes to win the game, but I was a bit short and then I ran into some trouble with Portugal having a giga empire and France conquering both Brazil and America(eventually). Just as I was about to win the Mayans suddenly gained a massive boost of Culture out of nowhere even though I was already over 100% vs them, which I guess must've been a Great Writer or something. Earlier I got completely ruined as I was sending 2 Great Musicians over to a Portuguese island near my land and they both got wrecked by a surprised war declaration. I always want to not sim-city focus too much on Science and find other ways to win the game, but usually they end up backfiring a bit, just like it did this game.

I definitely settled way too many cities to properly getting value out of them, I think if I stuck to a smaller 4-city empire I would've probably had more luck, since I was able to grab just about every wonder in the game related to Culture. This should've been a faster game.

Here's some screenshots, my T100, some goofy America stuff and then the final empire screenshot.

 

[Megalou]

Rather poor game from me too, ending with a victory on t 305. I have good knowledge of Inca which is a favourite civ. Yet I was dumb enough to to settle the grassland near truffles & New York rather than the spectacular mountain sides by the ivory and incense.
Yet there are two things that make me appreciate the experience:
1. I enjoyed the very exciting early game stages.
2. Culture is a very interesting challenge: There are so many possibilities, but you have to pick one of them. Doing a little bit of everything doesn't get you very far. Real life can be like that too.
3. I blasted through the tech tree, making it virtually impossible for me to lose. I do feel settling Cusco on the cow, allowing for an observatory eventually, was appropriate. (Also, marble came within reach.

Like qontroL, I got in trouble with the Americans - even losing the stupidly placed city of Tiwanaku at on point:

I also had some early drama with the slinger unit. Using one to protect a settler, it withdrew to allow the settler to be captured. You can see how the settler was retrieved by the thinnest of margins below, as I had to use a red-lined scout to snatch the settler back. It then went on to found a west coast city which was decent but nothing like Cusco and Machu.

The last natural wonder took many turns to find, but as many as 6 city states wanted it found:

Victory screen in the midst of another feeble attack from America:

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Culture victory turn 208.

Culture is a very interesting challenge: There are so many possibilities, but you have to pick one of them. Doing a little bit of everything doesn't get you very far. Real life can be like that too.

Funnily enough, doing a little bit of everything is exactly how I would describe my approach to this game . (I don't actually disagree, I think often a focused approach may be best). Anyway I combined:

• War, to subdue the AI and take their wonders and works of art.
• Futurism
• Hard tourism with hotels

The war part was fun, and it netted me some nice cities with some nice wonders, but I did not capture that many works of art. As I found in a previous culture GotM, the AI is pretty good at hiding away its works of arts when you start laying siege to their cities.

I had 7 frigates and that was enough to take Washington, Paris, Rio de Janeiro, and Madrid. I left Tenochtitlan because Monty had zero wonders and we had a declaration of friendship. By the end of those wars, my frigates had just about reached logistics, but of course it was too late to sail back to attack Maya and Portugal. Although, I did not properly scout the top of the map to see if there was a panama canal . I did, with some difficulty, take Palenque with knights and cannons.

I went frigates first, and even though I was lucky to steal navigation (from Brazil I believe), it slowed down my futurism play quite a bit. In addition, I had already generated a couple of great people. So, if I were to try again, I might try an all-out futurism play (especially since I know now that coal was already improved in the capital), I suspect that tha is the quickest way to victory. Freedom internet will struggle to beat T208 I think, and sacred sites may not have enough early faith generation, even though there is plenty of land to settle (and I don't like sacred sites so I won't try that).

My Inca experience this game was good, although the lack of fresh water hurt my cities' growth a little. There were plenty of decent terrace farms, but not many very good ones, and without fertilizer my cities struggled to reach 20 pop.

 

[Megalou]

Culture victory turn 208.

Funnily enough, doing a little bit of everything is exactly how I would describe my approach to this game . (I don't actually disagree, I think often a focused approach may be best). Anyway I combined:

• War, to subdue the AI and take their wonders and works of art.
• Futurism
• Hard tourism with hotels

The war part was fun, and it netted me some nice cities with some nice wonders, but I did not capture that many works of art. As I found in a previous culture GotM, the AI is pretty good at hiding away its works of arts when you start laying siege to their cities.

I had 7 frigates and that was enough to take Washington, Paris, Rio de Janeiro, and Madrid. I left Tenochtitlan because Monty had zero wonders and we had a declaration of friendship. By the end of those wars, my frigates had just about reached logistics, but of course it was too late to sail back to attack Maya and Portugal. Although, I did not properly scout the top of the map to see if there was a panama canal . I did, with some difficulty, take Palenque with knights and cannons.

I went frigates first, and even though I was lucky to steal navigation (from Brazil I believe), it slowed down my futurism play quite a bit. In addition, I had already generated a couple of great people. So, if I were to try again, I might try an all-out futurism play (especially since I know now that coal was already improved in the capital), I suspect that tha is the quickest way to victory. Freedom internet will struggle to beat T208 I think, and sacred sites may not have enough early faith generation, even though there is plenty of land to settle (and I don't like sacred sites so I won't try that).

My Inca experience this game was good, although the lack of fresh water hurt my cities' growth a little. There were plenty of decent terrace farms, but not many very good ones, and without fertilizer my cities struggled to reach 20 pop.
View attachment 739183

Well done. I didn’t say you had to pick just one path. Just not all at the same time.

Do you think you’d want to delay the guilds for ”all-out futurism”?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Do you think you’d want to delay the guilds for ”all-out futurism”?

Yes, 100%. There are some old FilthyRobot vlogs (don't know which ones sadly) where he shows how it is done well: ideally you spawn your first great persons the turn after you pick Futurism.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Well, I was wrong. Pure Futurism was not faster after all, or at least my Futurism attempt was too slow. I had a quick replay, and with map knowledge and slightly more focused play I got to Education a few turns quicker (turn 117 maybe?), printing press turn 132, and Autocracy turn 146, after bulbing one scientist, Oxfording Industrialization, and buying three factories for which I just could scrape together enough money.

After that, I created great works, and went for hotels, but I mostly neglected my science because I thought Refrigeration would be my end tech, although perhaps I needed airports as well. I played up until 204, and perhaps with best play I could still have matched turn 208 (gifting a city to brazil to send him a trade route, and then bulb two musicians in his land), but I just wasted faith buying an artist.

The screen shot shows the problem: at turn 204, Brazil has nearly 10000 culture, whereas in my first game, none of the AI reached 6000.

Also, America attacked and pillaged all my trade routes in the end, whereas in my first game he was simply dead

 

[qontroL]

Yeah, Culture Victory definitely has the most RNG in the sense that it depends way heavier on what happens with other civs in the game. In that sense your approach of eliminating that RNG by taking capitals is probably the most consistent.

 

[sebtanic]

panama canal

If you had a settler handy, you could have made one! There is exactly one tile between Tenochtitlan and Belgrade where you can place a city. And it even has pearls

Good thinking to go Frigates and take out the AI capitals

 

[sebtanic]

I won turn 263 on my 2nd attempt. Brazil and Maya were the culture runaways. I didn't attempt to conquer them, it was a peaceful win except from a short war when America came after me. This time around they had a few trebuchets and actually got the defenses of my northern city down. If they had placed their melee units a bit more intelligently they might have taken it. As it were I was eventually able to fend them off with crossbows and pikes, proceeded to utterly demilitarize them, and eventually made peace for all their gold plus some lux.

I could have won between 3-8 turns earlier if I had built 2 cities near my lands and gifted them to Maya and Brazil, to reduce the time it took for my GMs to trek all the way to the rivals' territory. The one I sent to the Maya made it in time, but the one I sent to Brazil only arrived there the turn I won (see attachment 1).

Attachment 2 and 3 show my empire turn 263.

I built all the cultural relevant wonders starting at Renaissance. I went Archaeology right after Scientific Theory, and spammed archaeologist. A a result I had all my Art/Artifact slots maxed out at the end of the game.

Here's a log of the mid and late game:

t143 Notre Dame (I missed this by one turn on my first attempt, so I was happy it worked out this time)
t148 Macchu Pichu
t155 Pisa
t156 Sistine Chapel (GE from Pisa)
t159 Globe Theatre
t179 Porcelain Tower
t181 Uffizi
t189 won WF
t214 Louvre
t214 Eiffel Tower
t234 SoL
t240 Cristo Redentor
t248 won IG
t250 Internet
t260 Sydney (GE, wasn't relevant anymore but built it for fun)
t263 won

I got the internet 2 turns after winning international games, making for 4x on tourism. I figured this would give me some uber powerful GMs, and indeed two of them would have been enough to win me the game if I could have gotten them to the enemy faster. It occurred to me to gift some cities, but since this is my second attempt at the game so I'm not really in the competition anymore, I figured I'll just take the time and send them over land. My empire looks more beautiful as it is

 

[Bol]

Culture win 227.
The main takeaway is 7 cities are way too many for a peaceful, freedom culture game: the increased cost in national wonders was not negligible, the extra science is not needed at all (I got Internet with an extra Scientist to sparse before I got half my artifacts), and the tourism from the last cities is not worth it.
Like my two worse cities, combined, make up 5.5% of my tourism output, which is laughable: not worth having to build 4 extra Archeologist who have to travel half the map to find dig sites.
Even the extra faith from having more cities was a non factor: I bought 2 Engis (the 2nd for CN Tower, absolutely a dumb idea, and it felt right in the moment only because I had many cities), but I would not have had enough for 2 musicians (imho the 1st Engi is a must).
Certainly I could have optimized better: I spent a ton of money to buy better farms that weren't better enough (like +1 after Fertilizer, which I got after Radio & Factories because it was well worth it here), I failed to time the 4th Musician and got it with 4500 power instead of like 8000, I certainly mismanaged the Science game, and somehow I got not one, but two extra Artists...at this point I should have built Louvre for sure.

A breakdown after turn 100:
T106 I lost a late Oracle attempt by 2 turns...not the end of the world, but it stinks
T118 I got a late Hagia Sophia to enhance, which was not necessary, but good (Temple happiness + Rel. Texts, buildings were all gone)
T122 Machu Picchu in Machu (NICE!)
I had no money to buy Unis, I got the last on T129 (quite late)
I was randomly attacked by America T135, and I had to build some defenses -> peaced T150 losing like 2 Pikes...at least I got a General out of it, which got me an out of range Gold (=7 gpt)
T144 Sistine, also quite late (I went Astronomy first)
T146 opened Rationalism after 2 fillers into Aesthetics, super late and I felt it, then Secularism T163

T156 Pisa, got an Engi which I used on Globe (not sure it was worth it, saving it for Broadway/Eiffel or even Uffizi/Louvre might have been better)
T165 I got Scientific Theory, but again basically I had no money to buy Schools so I completed the last one T178 (uber late)
T174 got Freedom via Oxford -> Radio
at this point tech path was Factories -> Fertilizer (very good here) -> Archeo -> Labs -> Internet (-> Airports)
T178 I rushed Eiffel with a faith engi, knowing I'd 100% get Broadway (which I got T200)
nobdy was willing to put hammers into WF, so I halted it as well to build Factories (got all of them T195), and finally won it T196.
Then I started spamming Archeos (20 needed for 15 artifacts and 5 Landmarks)

I bulbed Plastics T202, and bought 2 Labs immediately, then 3 more as soon as I had the cash
T211 SoL
T216 Internet (with a Scientist to sparse, womething went wrong...)
T216 rushed CN Tower with a 2nd faith engi (bad move)
T223 NVCenter, two turns too late because I forgot to start it lol
I bought 5 Airports as well.
I also forgot I had to send trade routes to people (no comment...), so I sent only 3 and I could reach Brazil, which was the culture "runaway"
aaand I also forgot to send Diplomats (I'm so dumb lmao), thankfully Brazil has Freedom as well so it didn't really matter.
All things considered, sub T220 was possible I think.

Mandatory tourism report:

It was a very fun game, the map was incredible and made the Incas really shine, bravo!

PS: culture is so much less stressful on Immortal with respect to Deity!

 

[lymond]

It's late. I'll post more tomorrow. I got a t254 Culture win. Certainly, my best result at a higher level culture, I think by quite a lot. I've tried gimmicky things like sacred sites on low levels with crazy dates, but I've never been very good at CV, or my usual win culture by killing stuffs. Nice to get in a good 5GOTM again.

Okay, a bit more about my game:

Spoiler pics :

Wonders:

Again, I was quite please with my result it. I went into the game thinking I would probably go to war a lot to nerf the cultured guys and steal their swag. However, early on, I found myself just focused on building the empire and doing the peaceful culture thing. I did declare on Wash early on to get my fair share of his workforce. I built one worker, if I recall, stole one from Witt, who I planned on worker farming, but I nabbed so many workers and settlers from Wash that left Witt alone after that.

I did the usual scout>scout>shrine, and then I think worker>settler. I nabbed a few huts...not all that many...but got some decent stuff like a pop, BW I think, and culture. I took the gold/silver pantheon, which seemed the only logical thing. I believe I was first to a reli but Pacal, ofc, followed right after - or maybe the reverse. I did not focus on reli much other than to get some pagodas, and eventually get all points going that I could. Surprisingly, no one, not even Pacal, tried to spread to me. Maybe do to the distance.

Wash ended up actually being the first AI to DoF me early, soon after I made peace, which I was forced to sooner than I wanted as I nabbed a final worker but would have lost it: therefore, I did not get as much gold and stuff that I wanted out of him. He was sufficiently nerfed the rest of the game and I was wearing my jeans long before any of the others. Nappy continuously dow'd Wash throughout the game but did not do much damage - Wash did build the GW.

Monty did his Monty thing all game, but was so far away that it was just Izzy and Maria who faced constant pressure from him. Monty was the early culture leader but ultimately it was, ofc, Pedro and Nappy that were the last to fall to my influence. I expected Pacal to be more of a challenge in that regard but he seemed nerfed for some reason over in the actual Incan lands.

Anywho, early on, I made a mistake without even think of settling 5 cities before NC. I was just thoughtless as I expanded, so my NC was later than I wanted at just about turn 100. I should have 3 citied NC. I settled the island down SE as well after NC and Optics. It was a nice city.

The surprising thing though that went well here is that I was able to build almost, if not all, the things that I wanted. I got Hanging Gardens in Cuzco without even focusing on it. Tiwanaku built Oracle. Later, I got Uffize, which I almost never achieve on higher levels, as well as opening Explo to nab Louvre. I tried to save money to at least buy important buildings like hotels and airports in the value cities.

Winning the World's Fair and especially the Games provided huge boosts. I went fast,Artists, etc. for the first one vote, then WF and IG.

I used Machu to the W as my main writer/artist farm but built NE and Musicians in Cuzco. I held Musicians Guild for a while to produce later dudes to get more valuable ones for concerts. I ended up not doing the concerts. They were not needed, though with better planning, at least 2 concerts in France and Brazil may have improved my date a bit.

I just about took all the ruins on the map. I'm not sure the AIs even built an archeologist yet before I had nabbed most of them. I stole two from Pacal, timed on the last turn to limit the diplo hit, but he was DOF'd by that time and we were both Freedom. I even nabbed one way up above what would be Panama and near Aztec (former Portuguese lands). Maria did bite it to Monty.

Fun game and map.

Edit: With the first spy, I stole a few techs, mainly from the bottom of the tree, which was not my focus. I stole from Monty first, who was surprisingly the early tech leader. I think moved on to Pedro and lastly Nappy. After the last tech I stole from France, I was well ahead in tech, so it was pointless at that point. All my spies were turned into diplomats, which is something I always fail to utilize properly in culture games. However, for some reason, I did not send a diplomat to Brazil, which was quite stupid. Nothing major was stolen, but it did help in the long run.

I did not put much focus on city-states. I invested a little money here and there to keep alliances. I emptied some barb camps for missions as my units had nothing better to do anyway, but most of my friend/ally city-states came by virtue of the passive missions. And that worked out just fine. My DOFs were Murica early, and then Brazil, Spain, and Maya for the bulk of the game. Only Wash became Guarded, and I was never denounced, even after Idealogies. It made trading easy and painless throughout the whole. game. Those not in Freedom were feeling much pain for their choice.

 

[sebtanic]

TLDR: Replay, turn 218 CV, Sacred Sites strategy

I like this map so much, that I just had to play it again with liberty to settle all those awesome spots.

Plus, I was intrigued if I would be able to pull off Sacred Sites at this difficulty level. Well, what do you know? On my replay I actually got a religion with 2 buildings, and the sacred sites reformation belief.

Policy path: Left liberty until cheap settlers -> Piety until reformation (t84, from Oracle) -> Cheaper religious buildings -> Complete Liberty

By the time I completed liberty (t161), it was clear that I would have to eliminate Brazil. I was Influential over almost everyone else, except a few turns were still missing for Spain but there was no doubt I would get there. However Brazil was still only around 60%. So I decided to switch my focus back towards science. I built libraries everywhere, got a GS from the Liberty finisher, and beelined towards Navigation.

Policies after Liberty: Exploration opener to make my ships faster -> Patronage opener -> Naval Tradition (happiness from Harbors and stuff)

Built some Galleas and sent them on their way. I put a coastal city between Washington and Paris, to upgrade my Galleas to Frigates there on their way towards Brazil.

I bribed Pedro to DOW first Spain, then France. Once I had 6 Frigates near Rio, I attacked and took Rio turn 202. My ships got some help from land units, which were mainly there to draw fire away from my Frigates. Plus they would later take Brazil's inland cities, together with France.

Except for the capital, any cities I took from Brazil, I sold / gifted to France to keep my happiness manageable. I did extract the Great Works first. This wasn't really needed, but i did it anyway to not let them go to waste.

Brazils last city was Fortaleza, in the jungles on the top edge of the first screenshot. I took it with Cannons and a Pike in turn 218, winning the game.

Screenshots (changed screen resolution to 1920x1080 to make them more manageable)​

Northern part of my empire:

Middle part of my empire:

Souther part (looks like I forgot to settle the Falklands):

Top cities:

I had 25 cities in the end, 2 of which were conquered from Brazil.

That was fun! Even though it gave me a slower win time than Black_Vegetable pulled off with Futurism, but I had no idea if SS would even work on Immortal.

Plus, I just had to try a Liberty/wide strategy on this map.

BTW my religious buildings were Pagoda and Cathedral. Cathedral was the only building left over when I enhanced. I was lucky to even get it, because one turm after I enhanced, Spain did and they could easily have snatched Cathedrals.

I might have gotten more faith with Mosques and Monasteries, but I'd also have had less happiness. Which was more of an issue in my game. By the end of this game I had faith galore and kept spawning Great Prophets that I just planted since I had no use for them. I didn't even complete the Piety tree for the extra gold and culture from holy sites; happiness was more important up until the end of the game.

PS: I vaguely remember that there was a religious victory in Civ 4, I think? SS could be considered the religious victory of Civ 5.

 

[lymond]

PS: I vaguely remember that there was a religious victory in Civ 4, I think? SS could be considered the religious victory of Civ 5.

In Civ 4, we called it Religious Diplomatic Victory. The Apostolic Palace was added in the final expansion (BTS), which enabled a separate mechanic involving diplomatic voting based on religion, with a diplomatic victory vote that one could win with enough votes, like the United Nations mechanic that is also in the game. If played right, one could cheese a very early victory in the game. It did not have to be a dominant religion at all. You just needed to get the religion in at least one of each civ's cities, while having the proper proportion of the votes to win, and at least one other civ voting for you.

What pantheon did you go with, Seb?

 

[sebtanic]

What pantheon did you go with, Seb?

Religious idols

religion: pagodas and +2g per city
enhance: cathedrals and faster spread