TSG107 After Action

[strake]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 107
Your name: strake
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1824AD
Turns played: 282
Base score: 1425
Final score: 2544

Clean straightforward game for me. No wars, played it primarily as a science game for the first half. Settled on 3 coastal cities, 2 with a mountain, and had my first 6 cargo ships cross feeding until everyone was size 20 or better, and then balanced hammers and food until I switched most of them to CS trades for the Freedom CS influence in the late game. My one big mistake, was that I decided to experiment with the social policies a bit, and didn't take the science tree past secularism. The late game techs take so much longer without finishing that tree. I suspect the faster finishes all finished the science tree, and probably built 4 cities.

I made a couple musketeers but didn't really use them.

All my spies I used for counter intelligence until they leveled up, then I sent them to a CS.

Map was great, since I didn't expand much, I was able to play as the isolated builder, which I prefer.

I was a little more aggressive with early wonders than I would be at a higher level, and got most of what I wanted, and a bunch of stuff I probably didn't need.

Faith helped a bunch, I didn't get started until late, but ended up with solid faith production that gave me a bunch of late game engineers.

I built Chateaus everywhere I could, end enjoyed the extra money and culture. Plus I think they are pretty.

 

[strake]

Here's a few tips I've learned about pushing the techs. I've been improving, but I'm not as good as the awesome fast people. Some of these tips will seem really basic, but I'm going to give a range of tips for all levels of players. Hopefully some of the really fast finishers will add a few tips as well.

- Diplomacy victory is really a science victory. If you aren't killing all but 1 civ, then it's a race to the info era. Typically, I beeline the top of the tech tree, one era at a time. I only backfill the bottom of the tree to key techs that I decide I want (like workshops usually) Or use spies to learn those techs. By the end of the game, there were techs I still didn't know 4 eras back.
- Food. granaries, cargo ships, maritime CS. Science is primarily based on population.
- Get your NC early. Ideally you want it done by turn 80-90. For this particular game, it looks like the top finishes probably went Great Library - National College, and then bought/built settlers. In other games it will make more sense to build 3 cities fast and buy the libraries as needed to finish the NC by turn 90.
- Try to save gold so you can buy universities/schools/labs as soon as you learn the tech for them.
- Serious fast science starts will usually beeline Education (by turn 100-110) and then Astronomy (10-15 turns later), and immediately build/buy universities and observatories. Sometimes they won't even have teched Iron or Quarries yet.
- A timing trick that sometimes works (depending on difficulty level) is to hold off on finishing the Oracle until the turn you get to renaissance, and to save 1-2 Great Writers for a culture boost until then as well. Time it right, and you can jump straight to Secularism on the same turn you get to Renaissance.
- A simple mid-game micromanaging strategy is to set the city on Food focus, and then lock in place a handful of key hexes for production/gold/faith/etc. Manually work whichever specialists you want. Make sure you have the happiness to support a population explosion.
- Only plant the first 1-3 Great Scientists. (much debate on how many). Save the rest to jump through the late era techs faster. Ideally waiting until 8 turns after you finish the last round of science buildings. But don't be afraid to use them to jump ahead to a key tech faster.
- Research Agreements can cut a lot of turns off your time. If you are swimming in gold and your friends don't have much, you can always gift them the couple hundred gold they need first. Sometimes they are so far behind in the tech tree that it almost doesn't seem worth it, but when you are pushing for every last turn, every little bit of science helps. Especially if you already have enough gold to be buying your science buildings as soon as they are available to build.

Well that turned into a long post with a lot of different thoughts. Hopefully people will find at least one useful hint buried in there.

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

I finished in 266 turns. I decided to try a full Liberty approach but in the end I did not settle many cities, four to be precise. I was looking for mountain spots but I found only two on my continent. The fourth city was founded on the other continent. For finishing Liberty I picked a Great Admiral, so I could make contact with other civs and city states before I had caravels.

 

[alflames]

Here's a few tips I've learned about pushing the techs. I've been improving, but I'm not as good as the awesome fast people. Some of these tips will seem really basic, but I'm going to give a range of tips for all levels of players. Hopefully some of the really fast finishers will add a few tips as well.

- Diplomacy victory is really a science victory. If you aren't killing all but 1 civ, then it's a race to the info era. Typically, I beeline the top of the tech tree, one era at a time. I only backfill the bottom of the tree to key techs that I decide I want (like workshops usually) Or use spies to learn those techs. By the end of the game, there were techs I still didn't know 4 eras back.
- Food. granaries, cargo ships, maritime CS. Science is primarily based on population.
- Get your NC early. Ideally you want it done by turn 80-90. For this particular game, it looks like the top finishes probably went Great Library - National College, and then bought/built settlers. In other games it will make more sense to build 3 cities fast and buy the libraries as needed to finish the NC by turn 90.
- Try to save gold so you can buy universities/schools/labs as soon as you learn the tech for them.
- Serious fast science starts will usually beeline Education (by turn 100-110) and then Astronomy (10-15 turns later), and immediately build/buy universities and observatories. Sometimes they won't even have teched Iron or Quarries yet.
- A timing trick that sometimes works (depending on difficulty level) is to hold off on finishing the Oracle until the turn you get to renaissance, and to save 1-2 Great Writers for a culture boost until then as well. Time it right, and you can jump straight to Secularism on the same turn you get to Renaissance.
- A simple mid-game micromanaging strategy is to set the city on Food focus, and then lock in place a handful of key hexes for production/gold/faith/etc. Manually work whichever specialists you want. Make sure you have the happiness to support a population explosion.
- Only plant the first 1-3 Great Scientists. (much debate on how many). Save the rest to jump through the late era techs faster. Ideally waiting until 8 turns after you finish the last round of science buildings. But don't be afraid to use them to jump ahead to a key tech faster.
- Research Agreements can cut a lot of turns off your time. If you are swimming in gold and your friends don't have much, you can always gift them the couple hundred gold they need first. Sometimes they are so far behind in the tech tree that it almost doesn't seem worth it, but when you are pushing for every last turn, every little bit of science helps. Especially if you already have enough gold to be buying your science buildings as soon as they are available to build.

Well that turned into a long post with a lot of different thoughts. Hopefully people will find at least one useful hint buried in there.

i agree with most things, i'd say every victory is a science victory if you don't build military, its pretty hard to win by culture on deity if you've got someone right behind you in techs, since once they get into information, many civs such as china, russia celts... will beeline and rush the space ship parts tech, and build them with engineers or buy them really quick

just that my game skills don't allow me to do research agreements since building no military involves no embassies and its not safe to make friendship with lesser civs, and thats why i won't ever be able to win any of the GotM challenges, but it is fun to play them anyway

after education i almost never go astronmy cos its too dependan't on wether or not i have mountain spots, i usually go acoustics via university of cambridge or printing if i'm playing on deity diff since on deity i allways need notre damme (i almost never reach alhambra on deity, and deffinitly not chichen itza, but thats why its deity


so my gameplay is slow (though i think safe) but i do really disagree with the 1-3 GS thing, it really depends on how your game play is, those acaddemies will provide 14 s at least when you reach modern era if you pick freedom, it really depends on how i manage culture but in most games, disregarding which civ i pick, i can have 2 GS before rennaisance and 2 more fefore i even get to architechture, i really think those should build academy, plus the one i'm getting if i start building the porcelain tower right after i reach architecture

so i'd say its not a matter of how many but a matter of when, sometimes i end up with only 2 of them (never less) sometimes with 5 on my capital and one or two more somewhere else

its true that i allways play on quick pace so, things are a bit different cos you don't need to wait so much to beeline radio if you ain't got coal

 

[alflames]

but my strategy is allways wonderspamming so although i allways go small-tall (never wide but i allways end winning population on the late game) i allways finish liberty first

i allways aim cultural victory but everytime i win by culure VC i could have won science or diplomacy way before, it is just that i don't like those victories and i can't aim for domination since i dislike building/moving arround units

this is my strategy for wonderspamming on inmortal-deity which is way more relaxed emperor and under, if i play inmortal or deity i allways play with no barbs and most times with new random seed, i never play policy saving which could be very handy though, i allways use capital for science and second city for culture

of course (if on inmortal/deity) capital has to spawn on a good land, such as having at least 10 food 8 production on the first five improvable tiles (taking the grannary bonus into account) for instance 1 sheep, 1 horse (no matter if on plain or grassland) 1 deer and 2 farms, if not, you have to find another strategy

please if someone detects mistakes to spam wonders, tell me, i mean small changes that would drastically improve my results, not a different way to play because you think mine sucks

build monument allways first, pick god-king whenever possible, then

tradition, liberty, citzenship (can't build a worker if i want to rush GL), aristocracy (for national college), republic,

then representation if i'm already during a golden age, colective rule if not, then colective rule if i picked representation before, representation if i picked colective cr and i'm now during a golden age or the first one has already passed, meritocracy else,

then finish liberty if i already have an academy to get a second one, open patronage if not, then open patronage (to allow fc building)

and usually it is now that i get to rennaisance, 2 first policies on rennaisence are allways rationalism/ secularism unless i didn't open patronage and i think fc is beeing tight, once i have secularism then i either finish liberty or open patronage if they werent finished/open

then humanism, free thought and if i haven't reached ideology yet i use scientific revolution for radio

whenever i reach ideology i pick civil society and avant garde, then, if i have over 3 acaddemies i pick new deal even if i'm not done with rationalism, if i have less than 4 academmies i finish rationalism first, then universal suffrage, then finish tradition, open aesthetics,

then if i had picked new deal id go creative expression and universal suffrage before the last 3 aesthetics policies, then whatever i wan't but trying to have media culture by the time i reach internet and have built national visitor center

with this strattegy is easy to win any game emperor or under by culture victory condition (or earlier cience or diplomatic) and, if you spawn on a decent (not necessarly awesome land) is the safest way, really slow, though, to win by culture (or earlier science/diplomacy) on deity/immortal that i've found

i've learnt from this game and #71 (cenice) i din't learn much while playing 80 and 93 so i didn't finish them although i was leading

this weekend i will play #105 for sure, i love occ,

 

[alflames]

the reason i tend to spam as many wonders as i can (everyone but the ideology related ones, from modern era on) is that it was the only way i wouldn't let other civs win by culture on a deity game

 

[krc]

Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1896AD
Turns played: 318
Base score: 1640
Final score: 2603

Did you use your Musketeer?
Yes. Got tired of the Celts spamming missionaries and prophets, and DoWed them several times -- in spite of them having the Great Wall. First time, they gave me Cardiff to go away. Second time I liberated Adrianople and then took a chunk of gold and GPT to go away. Third time I captured Edinburgh, and they were no longer relevant. Of course, having two extra puppet cities probably slowed my science, but I really didn't want to see another Celtic missionary.

Did you use spying to your advantage?
Started each spy on counterintelligence in Paris. After they reached level 3, moved them to CS to rig the elections. At the end, moved them to foreign capital as diplomats to get more votes. (The Shoshone in particular were active in trying to buy or coup CS, so I wanted the buffer.)

Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
There was enough room to expand (after forward settling to lock down some space). But I chose sites for luxuries, so none of my cities could build observatories. Only mountain sites nearby seemed to be restricted to salt. Which is nice, but you need different luxes for happiness.

The complete lack of coal anywhere near my territory was annoying (but seems to happen 90% of the time). Fortunately, I had already decided to use Oxford to get Radio and select an ideology. First by far to an ideology, and went Freedom. Eventually Assyria joined me, so we were the "free" continent while Shoshone and Japan went Order (and nearly wiped out Siam and Morocco).

One odd thing was the almost complete lack of naval vessels. I only ever built two caravels to locate the AI civs and CS on the other continent.

How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
It's where I usually play (king or emperor), so didn't change anything for me.

Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How?
Yes. Managed to purchase three GE and three GS with faith. Used one GE for the Eiffel Tower, which meant I could ignore anything else about tourism. Bulbed the GS to accelerate getting to Telecommunications tom trigger the world leader vote. Would have been faster, but I seriously mistimed the rationalism finisher, and the only thing I could take as the free tech was navigation instead of something more advanced and more expensive.

Did you utilize your Chateau? How?
Built them about as many places as I could. But didn't micro working them, so I'm not sure how much they mattered.

 

[Sempronius]

I went with wonder spamming and had a DoF with the Celts and Byzantines. At turn 140 the Celts show up on my door step with over 20 units. They left me with one city (of 3) and I refused to negotiate peace since I'd lost Paris, so they wiped out my last city. Might run through it again and focus more on military techs until the Celts are subdued.

 

[QuantumHover]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 107
Date submitted: 2015-04-13 20:42:33
Reference number: 32588
Your name: QuantumHover
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1926AD
Turns played: 346
Base score: 1549
Final score: 2244
Time played: 9:54:00

First time submitting. Fairly pleased with this. Spent too long on things that weren't rushing to information era tech.

 

[leif erikson]

First time submitting. Fairly pleased with this. Spent too long on things that weren't rushing to information era tech.

Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM.

Congrats on your win and best of luck in future.

 

[Kendon]

Your name: Kendon
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 2005AD
Turns played: 425
Base score: 2741
Final score: 3224
Time played: 26:20:00

The finish would have been quicker if Boudicca hadn't taken my capitol and my second city on turn 133. I had Orleons, population 6, to rebuild an army. Inspired by the cartoon of the swallowed frog strangling the stork, I retook Paris on turn 197 and from then on it was a military game. The good news is my opening strategy was building wonders and they survived both conquests.

Musketeers made a difference. The army had to take cities with educational or cultural wonders so technology stayed on the lower half of the chart until it was time to build a navy.

Once I was allied with half the city states Assyria and the Shoshone attacked France together so there were several CSs to liberate late in the game.

I used my spies to steal technology when I was catching up; for CS influence and coups; and at the end to get the extra two votes to win on the first vote using Globalization. I almost blew that because I thought my spies took three turns to become diplomats but it's six: one to travel and five to make introductions.

Everything was so smooth at the beginning I should have known it was too good to last. I saw three Pictish warriors but I had two promoted swordsmen so I used up the treasury for a mercantile ally CS, because it was the last turn that gold gifts were temporarily more effective. When more Picts arrived, ten in the following wave, I left a swordsman in Lyon one turn too long. I built a catapult instead of a second horseman. Mainly I was tired, I'd been playing half an hour too long and even though I know when to take a rest I forgot.

The good news is that this is my first GoM victory at this difficulty level, all the sweeter coming from behind, so I certainly enjoyed playing.

 

[Coilean]

Won my vote on t266. I built 4 cities all on the west coast, which was far enough away that Celtia never DoWed me, but let me grow Paris very quickly with food sea trade routes (was size 48 at the end). Never built a Musketeer, but built a few chateaus, mostly because they were more fun than making more farms and helped the borders pop out quicker. Used spies strictly for rigging elections with CS's. Took a minor detour into Chem/Fertilizer that probably cost me one election cycle in the end; just can't seem to resist getting them even when I know they aren't actually helping much.

Spoiler :

Game: Civ5 GOTM 107
Date submitted: 2015-04-15 03:19:53
Reference number: 32595
Your name: Coilean
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1780AD
Turns played: 266
Base score: 1373
Final score: 2590
Time played: 11:41:00

 

[TrailblazingScot]

- Did you use your Musketeer?
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How?
- Did you utilize your Chateau? How?

I finally completed a CiV GOTM using the correct victory conditions

I won on turn 397 in 1977AD. This was my first diplomatic victory as I usually win by domination or science.

I used spying to win elections in city states in response to the Shoshane doing the same. I also used diplomats for the extra votes...but, by the end only my capital and that of the Byzantine Empire were held by their original owner.

The map type probably aided my victory as the AI didn't build many cities until the late game and as coastal capitals are very vulnerable to invasion.

I didn't really consider the difficulty level, but it did mean that I didn't have to worry about the AI getting into space.

Faith - I'm not sure, except that I bought many religious buildings that helped with happiness and many Great Engineers to complete wonders quickly.

I did build a number of Chateau, but mainly as it looked cool.

Overall, a very enjoyable game. I was inefficient by building too many buildings and units (and probably cities too) e.g building bomb shelters. I should have gone wealth slightly earlier and won on the first vote (missed out by a tiny number). I did plenty of warring which kept things fun and allowed me to enjoy the benefits of most of the wonders. I was also able to get the "Three Musketeers" achievement.

Thank you for a good game

 

[Beto_Java]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 107
Date submitted: 2015-04-16 08:10:58
Reference number: 32605
Your name: Beto_java
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1905AD
Turns played: 325
Base score: 1983
Final score: 3050
Time played: 6:31:00
Submitted save: final_Napoleon_0326 AD-1906.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Beto_java_C510701.Civ5Save

 

[MarsupialRogue]

Won the Diplomatic victory on turn 414, in the year 1994. Full Liberty, Patronage, Commerce, and Freedom for ideology.

Started off with the good fortune to find Cerro de Potosi right away, and immediately founded a new city next to it. This made a huge difference in the early game, as I was able to purchase buildings and hire soldiers with relative ease. I built a large standing army early to dissuade invasions.

Leif's Questions

- Did you use your Musketeer?
I trained a bunch of them once they became available. In the Renaissance, Ashurbanipal and Theodora teamed up and double DoW'ed me. By this time I had already fully secured all the City-States on the continent, so I only had to fall back and hold the line until they both threw in the towel. Ashurbanipal ceded Nineveh to me under terms of surrender. Soon after, Boudicca asked me to go to war against Theodora, so I joined her and got my revenge by sacking Constantinople while the Celts annexed Nicaea.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
I made a point to start fixing CS elections on my continent as soon as I could. Since most of them were cultural City-States, I was able to acquire Policies and Tenets quickly.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
I was far enough away from the Assyrians and Byzantines that by the time we started fighting for space, I had the army and finances established to hold my own against them. I also kept a strong relationship with Boudicca so I would have an ally against them. The land-hungry Japanese and Shoshone were on the other side of the world, and thus, not my problem.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I made sure to build up my military to prevent inevitable invasion, and I also decided to work on early game infrastructure instead of trying for the Great Library.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How?
I used my Faith to add Happiness to both Shrines and Temples, so I had no production or financial slowdowns due to Unhappiness. I chose Earth Mother for my pantheon, so I was able to gain Faith quickly.

- Did you utilize your Chateau? How?
When I automated my workers later on, they added chateaus next to all my luxuries, where they could.

 

[hurtin]

Game statusiplomacy Victory
Game date: 1902AD
Turns played:322
Base score: 2179
Final score: 3404

I knew that city states and science were the key. So went full Tradition then Full patronage. Then Full Rationalism. Keeping alliances with culture city states, and building Chateaus, boosted my culture so I was able to really take advantage of the policies.

I used religion extensively partly to maintain friendship with city states, but then to get my religion as the world religion +2 votes. Boudicca had Jesuit Education as part of her religion so when I took her cities (took all but one). I left the religion in place so was able to faith buy Universities, Public Schools, and research labs in 4 citys, for a big science boost.

I didn't bother with the Great Library, in my opinion it is more important to get good city locations early rather than spend time on a wonder that early. Also I'm out of the habit of build it since I mostly play on immortal and Deity where it is not really an option.

I did build Hanging gardens, Forbidden palace, leaning tower, and porcelain tower. And a number of others.

Really pulled away from the AI pretty quick, then the game was mostly clicking next turn till the information era. Fun for the first third, cause of the ridiculously good start then kind of a drag. I probably wouldn't have finished it if it wasn't GOTM.

 

[Bleidraner]

please if someone detects mistakes to spam wonders, tell me, i mean small changes that would drastically improve my results, not a different way to play because you think mine sucks

Yes I think there are a few things you could do to improve your game, but I want to check your objectives. If I understand you right, you always aim for culture victory because you like it best right? I will assume that improvement means win in less turns? 2 final questions, your strategy looks as it will deliver a t350+ victory is that correct (strategy is very different if you want to win say sub300). And the final one, what level do you like to play? Do you want the advice for Emperor, Immortal or Deity (very different).

I also understood that you don't want to war at all if you can help it, you don't like it.

 

[alflames]

Yes I think there are a few things you could do to improve your game, but I want to check your objectives. If I understand you right, you always aim for culture victory because you like it best right? I will assume that improvement means win in less turns? 2 final questions, your strategy looks as it will deliver a t350+ victory is that correct (strategy is very different if you want to win say sub300). And the final one, what level do you like to play? Do you want the advice for Emperor, Immortal or Deity (very different).

I also understood that you don't want to war at all if you can help it, you don't like it.

thank you very much

i can beat emperor every time i guess, i really should try more inmortal games but i just try deity cos although there are obvious differences they aren't so big differences regarding early wonder spamming, at least IMHO

i won my first deity game ever, duel by dip VC but every next game i played on tiny or small i allways lost culturally, many times just 2 or 3 turns (quick pace) just before a votation would give the dip Victory

finally, after 3 months of struglling i achieved it, as i said, by deffending myself culturally, and i've even won deity culturally on large (another 2 or 3 months after my first small map victory), but if i had some more advance in turns, i guess, i would enjoy it better, since in many games i have to reload and nuke advanced capitals in order to avoid their science victory (which i could have achieved earlier than them, but instead of spaceship parts i asign my cities to gold during information era, in order to retain control of CSs)

for instance, every game i really struggle for money untill late rennaisance or later

so, i'd like to play even more safe, i mean not having to worry about other civs, that means earlier, yes, but i guess other things too

i really don't want to war, not so sure about building units, but i allways feel they delay my fonders, however one of the reasons i never try to build them, is that AI on deity will allways have incredibly larger armies, at least till really late game

thank you so much for offering help

 

[pendergast4]

Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1907AD
Turns played: 327
Base score: 3060
Final score: 4707

I built up Paris with Great Library, National Library, Hanging Gardens, and Colossus early, doing mostly Tradition, and just unlocking Honor for the anti-barbarian bonus, same for Commerce & Patronage for the initial bonuses and wonders unlocks, then focusing all on Rationalism & Freedom, only coming back to fill in Patronage later. Paris focused on Science and ended up with about 8 Academies, and I used the last 6 Great Scientists to directly build tech to sprint up to Information age with Satellites. I built several other cities, one on the west river where the barbarians start, one on the hill by the desert, another down to get the pearls and crabs. and finally up at the north to get the gems.


I probably should have built an exploring Caravel earlier, but the Celts were fierce in spreading their religion, spamming me with a prophet and loads of missionaries, bringing me to war to kill them off. The war went well and I conquered them with three cannons and three musketeers and ending the scourge of Catholicism with several inquisitors. After that both Japan and Assyria declared war with me. I conquered the latter, while nibbling away at the former until I won. Could have easily conquered the world with how over teched I was.

Spies just influenced city-states to ally with me, and one at Paris to counter-spy and level up. The map was great to allow a quick start without getting killed by an aggressive AI, yet the barbarians everywhere forced having at least two warriors early. I don't think the difficulty affected me much, if at all. I usually play on the higher settings. For faith I expored and built a shrine right off for Earth mother to get the second religion in the game. Tithe for money and Plowshares to grow faster. The upgrade from my Hagia Sophia prophet got me Religious Community and Religious Unity (mostly because that was all that was left.) I made a bunch of Chateau, but didn't really focus on them.

Overall lots of fun!

 

[leif erikson]

Welcome to CivFanatics.

Thanks for joining us and glad you enjoyed the game. Best of luck in future.