TSG130 Opening Actions

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Game Of The Month' started by Hammer Rabbi, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

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    Welcome to the TSG130 Opening Actions thread.

    STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

    This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. Apart from normal decency, the only posting restrictions are to please not post videos until the deadline is finished and to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind. :)

    Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Actions thread once you have completed your game.

    - Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace?
    - How many neighbors have you met? And who?
    - Any early wars or have you remained peaceful so far?
    - Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
    - Describe your social policy choices.

    Please use spoiler tags for any surprise details you'd like kept hidden. Thanks.
     
  2. bjelar

    bjelar Chieftain

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    I went east with my warrior, and spent 10 min debating whether to settle in place or move to the hill :blush: In the end I went for the hill.

    After finding Alexander on MY island a change of strategy was called for. Keeping the game peaceful becomes almost impossible at this point, so I changed my focus from early growth to early war. CBs instead of settlers, yay.

    I actually wrote down most stuff, here is a copy/paste for prople who care:

    Spoiler :
    turn 1: Founded capital on hills
    turn 7: +1 pop ruin
    turn 10: Mining, met Alexander
    turn 12: worker built
    turn 17: pottery, monument
    turn 20: opener, tradition
    turn 24: granery
    turn 25: aristocracy
    turn 27: sailing
    turn 28: shrine
    turn 32: trireme
    turn 34: met Maria Theresa
    turn 35: writing, oligarchy
    turn 36: trireme
    turn 37: Earth mother
    turn 42: library
    turn 45: optics
    turn 48: archery
    turn 49: cargo ship
    turn 51: archer
    turn 53: opener patronage
    turn 54: archer
    turn 55: callender
    turn 56: archer
    turn 59: archer
    turn 61: archer
    turn 63: archer
    turn 65: philosophy, archer
    turn 67: animal husbandry
    turn 69: the wheel
    turn 70: National College, consulates, golden age
    turn 72: Construction, religion founded: Teapotism
    turn 73: water mill
    turn 77: Drama&Poetry, Alexander cheats and demand I DoW or remove my troops. I DoW and lost my
    cargo ship 1 turn before trade cycle was completed. None of my 6 CBs were touching his borders (mad)
    turn 81: oracle, philantropy
    turn 83: captured Corinth
    turn 85: Amphitheatre
    turn 86: Thrology
    turn 88: writer's guild
    turn 89: captured Argos
    turn 91: Legalism
    turn 94: Gardens
    turn 96: captured Athens
    turn 100: captured Sparta, Alexander eliminated.


    As the pic shows, I chose to take the warmongerer penalty for wiping out the greeks, rather than keeping an annoyed Alexander there in a desert city to annoy me for the rest of the game.

    Time will show if the other civs can forgive me.

    Exploration was ruined by a terribly difficult map to explore + my resources being directed towards war instead of explo and growth. I need to get astronomy sooner than I usually do, for caravels and observatory in Sparta.

    - Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace?
    Initially I planned for peace, but that changed quickly once I ran into Alexander.

    - How many neighbors have you met? And who?
    I've met everyone but one civ, but my exploration has been awful so far.

    - Any early wars or have you remained peaceful so far?
    Early war, wiped out the greek.

    - Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
    I did get religion (Teapotism) and chose hmmmm earth mother, the 1 gold for each 4 believers one and hmmm pagodas.

    - Describe your social policy choices.
    Very weird. I played a practice game yesterday, and was happy about the legalism for wats plan. Of course that made no sense anymore, since I only had one city because of Alexander, but I didn't manage to change my mindset in time and thus went ahead anyway.... Got everything tradition stopping before legalism, then patronage until amphitheatre was up, then continue on tradition. Will get a free wat in capital at least...
     

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  3. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I am still at peace with Alex at t105 where I am now. Though I fear his future is uncertain should he no longer prove useful to me...

    I only have 2 cities because Alex took the gem spot. I have a religion and the HS. I lost on a few wonders like Oracle, HG, Mausoleum, CI, etc. But I do have HS. Tradition complete and Patronage is open. Hopefully I will stay peaceful and focus on spreading the religion.

    - Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace? No, I wanted to see the map first.
    - How many neighbors have you met? And who? All.
    - Any early wars or have you remained peaceful so far? Peace through trade route.
    - Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets? Yes - God King, Papal, Feed the World. I had a feeling if I waited and bought that ruin on the island it would give 60 Faith and, yes, it did.
    - Describe your social policy choices. Tradition>Patronage no funny business.
     
  4. isopaha

    isopaha Chieftain

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    I almost always settle in place, but after scouting with my warrior to the East, I thought I can probably utilize all resources better if I move to the hill on river, and it was definitely the case and a good call. A hill is also always nice.

    I went tradition and my main priority was to settle next to the mountain in the West, but Greece settled that area (much worse city place though) after I had built only one turn of my settler, so I canceled my settler and decided its time for war. I made a mistake and didn't DoW Alex when he asked me about my troops near his border and due to this all players hate me now, even those that hadn't met me when this occurred. First Greek expansion city was in a semi-well defendable position on the coast, so I had to burn some archers and one trireme until I could capture it. After that I was lucky that Alex wanted to give me the other city he had managed to found, so I settled for peace temporarily. He founded a desert city, but I quickly razed it after the brief time of peace and easily took Athens as well, eliminating Greece on turn 101 and ending my first session as well. I usually play at least 200 turns on the first one, but now I decided it's better to consider my options.

    I haven't even finished NC yet, but I am building it. I went a bit overboard on building my army, probably was used to Deity level AI armies. Alex's army was useless and Athens was in a very easy-to-capture location, so I have way too many troops now. I am not sure what to do with them. Should I disband some of them or make a quick invasion of Austria? I currently see only Vienna, but I checked she has 2 more cities, probably to NE of Vienna. Naval invasion is not so easy without ranged ships, so probably it would be wiser to stick to my private "continent" for the rest of the game.

    Also I am considering when to annex my puppets. In early game they can't really build that many useless things anyway. I have only one wonder so far, Mausoleum of Halicarnassus that I got only because of a CS quest and because it was only 6 turns. Guess it has some cash benefits in the long run as well. Next goal should probably be to focus on wonders and science, cash will come on its own.
     
  5. VandyFan08

    VandyFan08 Chieftain

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    - Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace?

    My plan was to go Tradition/Patronage/Rationalism and play peaceful barring Alexander being in the game. Well, that plan went out the window.

    - How many neighbors have you met? And who?

    Met everyone. Looks like I may be taking over Austria as well as I hate when she marries city states.

    - Any early wars or have you remained peaceful so far?

    So just through 105 turns and expected to play safe until Artillery and steamroll Alex. Well, things didn't go exactly as planned as he marched an army up to my two cities (settled on hill/river and put another city next to mountain and bought silver next to Alexander's capital) and DOW'ed me. Was able to hold him off and, for the first time in history, built Terracota Army. Going to rush Crossbows and destroy him and then go from there.

    - Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?

    Yes, Earth Mother, Tithe, and Pagodas.

    - Describe your social policy choices.

    Did some quests for the cultural city states around so am through Tradition and opened patronage. Am going to try to rush Renaissance for Rationalism but not too concerned as I will hope any other patronage options (Consulates and then work left hand side).
     
  6. KissMyAxe

    KissMyAxe Chieftain

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    Well, this turned out to be a mess. At this point I think I'm going to have to throw all my previous plans away.... :dunno:

    Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace?
    I wanted to play a peaceful game. Before starting, my primary concern was how to get enough gold, since Siam doesn't have any perks that help with that. That's especially a concern if Greece, Austria or Venice are in picture. So, as you might have seen in the announcement thread, I've devised a "cunning" plan to do a Piety/Patronage split, taking Papal Primacy and Charitable missions for my beliefs to get an extra edge when it comes to relationships with city-states. This plan was predicated on having some sources of faith at or near the starting location.

    How many neighbors have you met? And who?
    I've met Greece, Austria, France, England and the Huns (?).

    Any early wars or have you remained peaceful so far?
    I was mentally, though not strategically, preparing for war when I met Alexander on the same island. That was a shocker. (Talk about the Hammer Rabbi God laughing at my plans :D) And that's the "mess" that I'm referring to in the opening sentence. I changed my tech priorities to uncover iron to see if I can rush him with swordsmen and composite bowmen. Didn't want to do spearmen+archers due to his hoplites and companion cavalry being superior to my generic troops. Anyway, God's sense of humour hasn't run out yet, and the only source of iron was in the middle of a desert, giving a pathetic quantity of 2 units. So much for the swordsmen. I've decided I couldn't wait for pikemen: Alex took Liberty and was quite prolific in spamming cities very close to me and locking me out of expansion options. Anyway, I beelined maths and assembled an army of 4 spearmen, an archer and 2 catapults and DoW'ed Alex. He seemed to have only a couple of warriors in my vicinity, although he quickly mobilized a couple of hoplites (those guys are ferocious!). But, Sukhotai kept popping out spearmen, composite bowmen and catapults. So, I've managed to drown the Greeks in the blood of my army...

    Here's the current lay of the land. I'm expecting to finish Alex in the next 10-15 turns.
    Spoiler :


    Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
    Yes. I was the first for both the pantheon (Earth Mother, obviously) and the religion. Got Papal Primacy and Mosques so far.
    Spoiler :

    Describe your social policy choices.
    In a word? Chaotic I've opened Piety first, since I've got a culture hut and I was about to finish Pottery. I think I got the +1 faith tenet after that. Then I opened Tradition --- primarily for the 3 culture --- but then I thought, why don't I try that one weird "Wats for Legalism" trick everyone's been ravin' about, so I've also gotten the +50% city strength tenet, preparing to take Legalism later. Finally I've opened Patronage.

    Spoiler :


    In retrospect, I think it would have gone better if I had taken Honor from the get go. Maybe having opened Tradition first. I'm expecting to have to fight Austria too... :( But, I think it's a little too late to open Honor, so I guess I'll finish Piety --- or at least get the Charitable Missions reformation belief and the +25% gold from temples.
     
  7. strake

    strake Chieftain

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    My initial plan was to focus on getting three coastal cities started as soon as possible. I was going to play by ear the possibility of a Tradition/Patronage split to time Legalism for Wats, but was probably going to just push through Tradition as fast as possible, and just get cargo ships and growth going quickly. I settled on the hill across the river, and initial scouting showed two promising expansion points. I did shrine/worker first, then started on a settler. My settler finished 1 turn after Greece broke my first location by dropping a city there. Then Greece screwed up my 2nd location by planting a 2nd city 4 hexes from that location.

    So that meant shifting gears. Many troops later and a much longer war than I expected (his early troops are rough) I had burned both of his expansion and claimed his capital. Planted a couple more cities along the coast to fill out the island, to have 5 cities on MY ISLAND. That took until like turn 120. Still didn't have National College or Education by that point.

    So much for that plan. Should be able to settle in and push infrastructure now and play peaceful for the rest of the game. Definitely playing catch up though.
     
  8. Wild_Woojsha

    Wild_Woojsha Scourge_Of_G0d

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    - Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace?

    My plan was to build 4 cities, use legalism for 4 free Wats, and Tech straight to Globalization as fast as possible, which can only be done peacefully. I only needed to build two settlers though, since I was able to box Greece in, steal two of his settlers, and take Athens for city 3.

    - How many neighbors have you met? And who?


    I think I have only one left, I met Greece really early, and the rest later. I met Austria right before I took Athens, but no one else saw what I did luckily. Glad I hit him hard early, early war is growing on me!

    - Any early wars or have you remained peaceful so far?

    I knew I had to take Greece out early before he filled up my Island with garbage cities and units so I built 3 Archers and 2 triremes and DOW'd him twice to eliminate him by turn 60. I used my upgraded spearman and Scout to capture as well. While it wasn't the ratio of 5-2 that I prefer when it comes to Ranged vs. melee, it did the job.

    - Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?

    I decided to not go for a shrine this time and instead built Archers and a granary. Not having a religion will probably backfire but we shall see.

    - Describe your social policy choices.


    Took 3 in tradition and got Optics just in time to open patronage. I am currently waiting to take another in patronage before legalism, I'm probably going to burn writers to finish tradition as soon as possible though instead of waiting to win World's Fair. My plan for 4 free wats is going swimmingly though, I have monuments, libraries, and Amphitheatre's almost built in all 4 cities. Its about turn 90ish right now, maybe 100, and Education is only 20 turns off. Looking very good, hopefully a solid and fast win for me.
     
  9. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    - Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace?
    I did not yet decide that. The time for those decisions comes now. I will take a break to consider the long term future and make plans now at turn 100.
    The only early plan was to just build up my economy as well as i can until education and the reconsider. Not yet at education but im thriving and i can start considering.

    - How many neighbors have you met? And who?
    I have met all Civs but only about half the CSes.

    - Any early wars or have you remained peaceful so far?
    I pestered Alexander hard. Hes alive but not exactly flourishing :D

    - Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?
    Desert folklore, should have a religion soon.

    - Describe your social policy choices.
    Filled out tradition on 91. Plan to put a few points into Patronage before going Rationalism.
     
  10. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    I dont exactly get what you are saying but you can get the free WAT in conquered cities too.
    If you get legalism first and then after that capture a city, you do not get the free building while you do if you settle it. If however you first capture a city and then get legalism, you do get the free buildings in your captured city.
     
  11. Kendon

    Kendon Warlord

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    War was the plan from the beginning, more so after I saw Alexander on the same island. I've met Austria, America, Netherlands and England. I had triremes protecting trade routes and embarked units from lots of barbarian ships.

    In spite of that it's been peaceful so far. Austria landed three warriors and two archers on my border so I sent a composite bowman and a spearman to sit on nearby hills. Everyone's had a nice visit and Austria is now quietly disembarking. No one has mentioned war.

    Alexander's built four cities near me. I'm bringing back my other bowman from the barbarian islands and building catapults. All three triremes are now protecting the disembarked units. Three of Alexander's cities are in useful locations.

    I'm four turns away from Hagia Sophia. Austria has the only religion so far but I know they can come in bunches.

    I completed the Tradition tree and I'm ready to start Patronage.
     
  12. bjelar

    bjelar Chieftain

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    Yes, I discovered this during the game. However, it would have taken too many turns to build monuments and amphitheaters in the captured cities.
     
  13. linaker

    linaker Chieftain

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    I'm never going to submit one of these games. My 2 warriors and archer (upgraded scout) lay in wait outside Athens for Alex's settler to appear, surrounded it and then let it escape and build a city! I just can't invest time in a game where I've made such a stupid mistake before turn 15!

    Anyway, I replayed and captured Alex's settler and he was then kind enough to supply me with 5 workers during our war. He made increasingly desperate offers of peace until finally he offered Sparta, his only other city apart from Athens. It was too tempting to refuse, especially as I'd met all the other AIs and so was happy not to get a warmonger penalty. Since then, I've managed to play cat and mouse with his settlers. It's turn 110 and using 2 warriors, an archer and a trireme, I've managed to stop Alex building another city and got one of his settlers killed by a barbarian archer on a nearby island as it tried to swim past my blockade.

    - Did you start this with a specific diplomacy plan? War or peace?
    No plan. I wasn't expecting another civ on the same land mass. But when I saw Alex I thought he must die. Now he's in such poor shape I'm not sure if I should let him live. I think Maria Theresa might be a better target before she marries all the City States near me.

    - How many neighbors have you met? And who?
    Met them all and 16 City States. It pays to explore before civilisation boundaries start cutting off coastal routes! I've had rotten luck with the ancient ruins. 4 or 5 maps and 1 extra population in Sparta that made it starve.

    - Did you get a religion? If so, which tenets?

    First pantheon, but third religion. (Spent 6 turns at over 200 faith, during which time Washington founded Protestantism). Earth Mother, Papal Primacy and Pagodas. I'm wondering about choosing the enhancement belief that doubles spread to city states. I've never taken that or Papal Primacy before.

    - Describe your social policy choices.
    Got 5 tenets of tradition and then opened patronage as I'd got 3 city state allies by then and wanted to slow the influence drop. Then, I noticed no-one else seemed to have opened piety so I took that next to try to get the Great Mosque of Djenne. I'm wondering about trying to get the reformation belief charitable missions now. And I'm not sure tradition was the right choice. There seem to be a lot of prime spots for smallish (liberty) cities. I want nearly all the social policies: patronage, piety, commerce, exploration, rationalism.

    I do like these game set ups. So much better than a random game. You get a brilliant start but that's balanced by the neighbours from hell on an archipelago, diplomacy game. Very interesting, thanks!
     
  14. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Moderator Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    Hey, GOTM staff;

    (I'm posting in the forum rather than by PM because I want to thank you "out loud" for your all hard work on these games! I do enjoy!)

    I saved last night (Sunday) on T220. I had just accepted a city in a peace deal, which in THAT SAME TURN I sold to another Civ (he can have the unhappiness).

    I reloaded tonight, played my turn, but it will not go to Next Turn. It is asking me to Choose Production for the city I sold. Clicking the Big Hammer does nothing. Just - nothing.

    I have not reloaded, or done anything else for that matter. Just lettin' it sit until I hear from ya'll.

    Thanks.
     
  15. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Moderator Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    Phutthayotfa was sad. He had always believed the Elders. And they had always taught that “There are only the people of Siam in the world. There is no other form of intelligent life.” And today Phut knew they were wrong. Very, very, wrong.

    He had joined the Siamese army as a scout, ‘cause all he ever wanted to do in life was to see the rest of the world. And to prove to himself that there were no other peoples – or that there were. And to peacefully un-coexist with them. Or, peacefully coexist, if the “proving” turned out that way!

    Now, sadly, he knew that the Elders were wrong. He had been worrying that this could be so, because on the 8th day of their exploration, his partner Chulalongkorn (Gad! That warrior had to be the first-born Siamese ever!) said he had encountered a guy who called himself a “Greek”. Alex, or something. But, on that 8th day, Phut thought that Chulalongkorn must have simply been dreaming.

    But here, on the 22nd day, he met Alex for himself. No dream this time. Today Alex was a real-life warrior. Guarding a settler. And Phut knew exactly where they were heading. Straight toward the mother-lode of gems he had seen two days ago. Where Phut, if he ever made it back home, would be telling the Elders to build OUR next city.

    But what if the Greeks got there first! Well, if that happened, he would welcome whatever punishment the Elders meted out on him!

    But today he had an option, although it was one he did not want. And that’s what was really saddening. Just yesterday he had walked through a circle of standing stones, and had been immediately transformed into an archer! So he could, theoretically, stop the Greek from spreading his civ. And get a good worker in the bargain. (Better than a good worker, he thought. She was hot! And she looked like she would go with him in an instant, if she could shake the Alex dude!)

    But what about his dream of a peaceful coexistence? Maybe there was no such thing as THAT! So, ignoring his sadness, Phut strung an arrow…and started a war. (“Greeks!” he thought. “They probably don’t even have a soul!”)

    Getting Agafya (she said it meant good-hearted - Mom will just love her!) back to camp he learned that the Elders were already admitting they knew of other civs, and that they had been busy preparing a reaction to his own action. In his absence they had learned how to create the very outlandish weapons that had been magically bestowed on him, and had trained three others to wield them.

    And so it came to be, that the four archers, commanded by the wise old Chulalongkorn, marched off to Athens, and by the 40th day the Greeks were only a memory. But that, as it turns out, was only the beginning.

    Phut met all the other major civs between T57 and T81. City/states were a different story. Met the first 2 on T63, and only 5 more by T100.

    Only other war prior to T100 was when Attila was bribed (who, me?) 3gpt and 2 horses to DOW France.

    Yep. Thought we would get a city somewhere in the desert southwest, so took Desert Folklore, Papal Primacy, and Mosques.

    Like somebody said, a little chaotic. Opened Tradition, then opened Liberty, and took Collective Rule, Citizenship, and Representation (through T88).

    I was mesmerized by the free Wat trick, and actually almost pulled it off perfectly. Almost, meaning, by 2 turns. Got the culture for a policy 2 turns before researched Education. Had allied a cultural C/S, and… oh, well, still got 4 free Wats, just a few turns later. T136, I think that was.
     
  16. Wild_Woojsha

    Wild_Woojsha Scourge_Of_G0d

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    This crap happened to me too!!!! Glad I am not the only one. 5 turns before education, stupid cultural CS gives me 22 culture per turn and screwed my timing completely! I was ready for legalism 1 turn before education, and I was NOT about to risk losing my Wats for nothing. I killed Greece too but it took me longer as I farmed 3 workers total off of him and had to wait out two peace treaties. My 3 archers, spear, scout, and two triremes knocked him out easily though, and only Austria bore witness to my war-crimes.
     
  17. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    :thanx:

    As with all crashes or freezes, please reload from your last save, your autosave interval should be set to 1-turn, and replay the turn as you originally played it, mirroring each move as best as you can remember them.

    Really should notify one of the staff via PM please. :)
    We post all communication in a central thread in staff so that when we review results all the PM's are in one place. It is just more efficient for us. Thanks again.
     
  18. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Like others here, I moved the warrior east, liked what I saw, so settled on the hill one hex to the right from opening screen shot. That was a good call!

    Yeah, I figured archipelago, so no close neighbor. Skipped the scouts for monument first in build queue.

    Alex was an unwelcomed surprised. That same turn my warrior upgrades to spearman. I am still feeling really vested in the free Wat trick, so I focus on settlers. Got two out but no room for a third expo. Austria floated a Trireme by.

    At about T60 Alex has a dozen units or more on my border. I give him a Salt for nothing. He has not met anyone (or at least, not met anyone that I have met), so no bribes. I have not researched Archery and my only unit is that spearman! Game crashes, just for extra drama.

    Reload, and get the DOW. I figured game over, but decided to play it out until I lose a city. He walks his army past my two expos (so I get some pot shots) towards my cap. The carpet is not so intimidating once I calm down: only two archers and two UU. The rest are warriors. I focus my fire on the archers. The UU just move back and forth while his warriors suicide themselves against my cap and my spearman mops up. I lost a worker, and only because I was not paying enough attention. Of the carpet, only one survives, which I eventually kill several turns later.

    By the time I rally with 3 CBs and a second spearman, he has pikes. But then Alex offers me a lux and gpt, which I take. My plan at that point was to stomp him later with Elephants, but I only build two, and never get around to DOWing. NC was terribly late because of the war.

    Yes. Earth Mother and Mosques were good. Papal Primacy for the RP since it is useless, but I am so bored with Tithe. Religious Centers is best option by the time I enhance. Religious Texts of course.

    A couple in Tradition, then got to Classic via Optics just in time to open Aesthetics, so no need to waste an SP for the Wat trick. I put one SP in Aesthetics to speed the Amphitheaters, then finished off Tradition. Ducts were noticeably late, well after engineering, but three free Wats is good. Put 3rd expo (for 4th city) in marginal island to the south quite late (after T150, and three more NW done). Picked up a lux, and after one food and hammer cargo ships, that city won't be holding me up too much. I could have timely settled the NW to the East instead if I had been paying better attention. I blame Alex for my missing that.

    I am going to try and turtle to a peaceful CV. Alex has to die of course, but probably I will wait until Arty. Meanwhile, every 20 turns or so I bribe someone to DOW Alex. So many wonders to try and catch, and I already missed Sistine Chapel...
     
  19. Wild_Woojsha

    Wild_Woojsha Scourge_Of_G0d

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    Civ V BNW - TSG130 Details:
    Quote:
    Player (You): - Ramkhamhaeng - Siam
    Victory Condition: Diplomacy but all other VCs are enabled.
    Difficulty: Immortal
    Civs/City-States (including player): 8/20
    Map Type/Size: Archipelago
    Game pace: Standard

    It's DIPLO, so get them city-states!
     
  20. beetle

    beetle Deity

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,308
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    Oops! Thanks for pointing that out! I don't think it is too late for me, but obviously I would have been better off with full Patronage rather than full Aesthetics!

    I was first to Ideologies and going Freedom of course.
     

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