TSG25 Game in Progress

[ElWanderer]

Secondly, I should have started signing RA's much earlier because I have only recently got to navigation and got some SoL's out there.

Generally I'd agree with you - in the last immortal domination TSG, it was a succession of research agreements that kept me marginally ahead tech-wise for most of the game (and therefore able to stomp the AI with better units). However, in this game I got navigation on T172 without any research agreements. I got there by avoiding the bottom half of the research except for iron working (I didn't have roads for ages!) and bulbing Astronomy and Navigation with great scientists from the Great Library and Porcelain Tower (I also got a university up for specialists, but that was late on and only shaved a turn or two off). On easier difficulty levels, I like to build both the Great Library and the Oracle, for getting a great scientist out faster, but that wasn't an option here.

Thirdly, I need to be more aggressive in the early stages - that's just not my style of play because I am more comfortable with science or culture victories.

Me too, I'm quite happy to smite whoever attacks me, but early aggression isn't usually my style.


T262 update: I lost a unit

My highly promoted longswordsman got run over by a caravel belonging to a City State allied to Rome - I've still no idea where it came from. Fortunately, I had another or that could have been an embarrassing end to the invasion! I dread to think what my kill ratio is; it's been like whack-a-mole at times.

Both Siam and Songhai's capitals fell fairly easily and they're giving me gpt for peace. I have just captured Rome (which at combat strength 55, was only taking one damage from each shot) but not killed enough Romans to get a peace deal yet. Caesar was top of the scoreboard and slightly ahead of me in tech (he has cannons, cavalry and frigates). Helpfully, he had built the Great Lighthouse and Forbidden Palace in Rome, so those are now mine.

Next up will probably be Egypt (who still have a mad carpet of war chariots), then China or Greece. I have research agreements with Japan, France and Persia, so I'm leaving those until last. That must be six capitals down, six to go. At the rate of a capture every 10 turns or so, I guess that's a rough predicted finish time of T325.

Possible spoilers regarding bits of the map around Siam and France:

Spoiler :

• Heh, didn't expect to see El Dorado. Was tempted to wrest it off Siam, but he made me a peace offer I felt I ought to accept so I could move on to the next civ.
• Hmmm, Paris seems to be located in a more awkward spot to get to than the other capitals. May have to capture a city to the north of it, then emplace artillery to beef up the bombardment.

Questions on weirdness:

• When I gave one of my ships of the line the Supply [heal 2HP outside friendly territory] promotion, it gained an extra movement point. That doesn't seem to be listed as an effect... is this expected?
• Halfway through my play session last night (I think the game was running for about five hours, though I didn't play solidly), my ships lost the ability to run-over embarked units. Instead they were able to one-shot them with bombardments. A few turns later, they were back to normal. Has anyone else had that happen?

 

[Tsaghen]

Glad I was helpful Mazer


@ Quizman

That's a way of looking at things, he's another one.

It seems to me that you are analyzing the game as if it was a long land game. Sea conquest victory is quite different.

Considering that the game is supposed to end with Navigation there is barely time to make it profitable. Since Iron isn't needed before Navigation the best course of action is grab it only a few turns before you get the tech, thus the challenge is to be ready for it. I see three possible ways the Iron can present itself :

• It hasn't been claimed yet so you just have to drop a city on it. That will cost you a Settler. Can't consider building it as you should be busy working on PT or Oxford thus every turn spent on the Settler delays your win. So it's either through SP or rushing which is that much money not available to buy/upgrade Triremes.
• With 25 CS you can bet at least has access to Iron. If you have built The Great Lighthouse and maybe The Colossus you should have a Great Merchant available, use it on a CS with Iron. It will reward you with 600 gold and some influence, add 500 gold or less and you're allied. Cheap and easy.
• Another civ controls an Iron spot. Since it's a domination game you should already be ready to conquer cities, just start with the easiest accessible Iron city. That would be Sulleiman just next door. If you don't already have a Trireme fleet capable of taking a city, you should at least be able to do it with 2 SotL using Iron from a CS to get you started.

So as I see it, your mistake could be that you did not focus enough on you army ; not enough troops, not enough training or maybe both.
As for RAs, they are very expensive in early game compared to your average income and before PT or Rationalism they only provide half tech. I believe your gold would me better used buying Triremes which would contribute to solve your army problem.

Don't take anything for granted, re-evaluate usual decisions (like Great Library is the most important early wonder for example) with this game's specific parameters. Mainly they are :
- conquest ; take capitals, sell them and move to the next ; setup a second and third army as soon as possible
- sea map ; ships are the key, ground forces are useless (just one unit per army to capture cities)
- epic game speed ; you have 50 % more turns to train units, consider taking actual promotions instead of instant heals.
- game should end with Navigation, set up research accordingly ; if you get GL, use it for Compass ; plan to bulb Astronomy and Navigation (use Oxford ! you won't be needing it later) ; no use for Iron Working before Navigation so you can research it just after education.

I hope that helps. I wasn't a fan of sea maps before this game but it had me thinking and once I have figured all the above perks I felt much more comfortable and ended up really enjoying it.


@ ElWanderer

If you have Logistics on your ships you only need one access route and thus can go straight for Paris
Same thing with Supply, discovered it also gave +1 move.
Now that you mention it, I remember also having the one shot embark bombardment thing. Happened once, a few turns later when I wanted to run over an embarked unit again it work as usual.

 

[Maxym]

Were they by any chance Songhai units? They have ability to defend at sea so you end up shooting at them instead of running them over.

 

[ElWanderer]

Were they by any chance Songhai units? They have ability to defend at sea so you end up shooting at them instead of running them over.

Ah, yes, that would explain it.

 

[Tsaghen]

Could be yes. Thanks

 

[QuizMan]

Tsaghen - many thanks for the analysis. That's given plenty of food for thought for future games.

 

[golem]

1200 Ad - When I have SotLs 100 BC I thought it will be piece of cake. It was not. After several turns I managed to upgrade six triremes to SotLs, but next I found out they are not well trained. To capture Otomans and Germany took a long time.

After signing peace treaty with Germans I received so much cities, that my unhappinnes was 35. My personal best.

Next I conquered Arabia, Egypt, Japan and Thailand. Egypt with GW was nigntmare for me, I lost too much units trying to get close to Thebes. And the worst was waiting for another unit to come - lot of turns lost.

Five Civs still alive. Askia will be easy, but Rome and French looks pretty powerfull. Now I have six Sotls with Logistic, so we will see.

 

[golem]

1420 AD - Still fighting. This session I conquered Shanghai, Peking and Persia without troubles - but then all started hate me and declared the war. I am fighting everywhere, had to purchase several cities. One big mistake was to sell Kyoto to Otomans. After some time Japanese took it back.

Rome took horrible time, in any case Rome and France are better than me in science. Five SotLs bombared Rome for five turns. Horrible defence. Finally I conquered it, but have to sell it immediately to France. (Napoleon is my only friend.) Japan should be out in five turns, next will be duel between me and Napoleon. When I see his cannons and riflemans, I am not sure if I manage. I am completely out of money, selling buildings to survive. Bitter way to glory, is not it?

 

[golem]

My highly promoted longswordsman got run over by a caravel belonging to a City State allied to Rome - I've still no idea where it came from. Fortunately, I had another or that could have been an embarrassing end to the invasion! I dread to think what my kill ratio is; it's been like whack-a-mole at times.
[/LIST]

If I write about every my unit that was run over, it would be pretty long list. I am transporting them in the middle of five SotLs now. The CSs caravels are everywhere - and all CS but two are at war with me.

 

[Ribannah]

It is turn 62 and we have just fnished the Great Lighthouse. As expected at this level, the Great Library is long gone to the AI (turn 49, far away... well, everything is).

Nonetheless I'm quite happy with our start. London was founded on the northwest Gold, for early hammers and coins as well as optimal sea access. We have two additional cities, York at the Marble under Suleiman's nose and Nottingham at the Ivory, both on a hill as well. We don't want the Ottomans to grow big on OUR island, I mean continent.

Our Warrior ran counter-clockwise at top speed and managed to find Genoa first, blocking an Ottoman Scout.

Two Triremes were bought and ordered to discover The World. They are now exploring and killing barbarian Galleys. Already we found four rivals and a bunch of city states, all thanks to b-lining Sailing over Writing.

Trapping is due in 1, Optics will follow. No need for Philosophy yet, as it will be a while before we can build the National College, and there will be insufficient funds for Research Agreements in this game, and not enough time for The Oracle.

Then, Masonry (York should have a Worker at that time), followed by the long, long stretch to Education!

Cities
1 London (2 Gold, Gems, Horses)
47 York (Marble)
56 Nottingham (Ivory)

Policies
30 Liberty
38 Collective Rule
60 Citizenship

Technology
8 Animal Husbandry (ruins)
16 Pottery
32 Sailing
41 Mining
53 Writing

London
17 Worker
27 Granary
34 Monument
38 Settler (policy), Trireme 350g
50 Settler
51 Trireme 350g
60 Worker (policy)
62 THE GREAT LIGHTHOUSE

York
62 Monument

Nottingham

 

[Tabarnak]

As expected at this level, the Great Library is long gone to the AI (turn 49, far away... well, everything is)

The GL was built at turn 50 in my game. Immortal...but epic speed! That's 32-33 turns at standard speed. It's pretty quick in fact.

Some guys built the GL around turn 80-90 without problems.

 

[Ribannah]

It's just NOT FAIR.

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through about the first 80 to 100 turns.

- What were your initial priorities?
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
- What tech path did you follow?
- Did you prioritize any Wonders?
- In this game, more City-States were added, how did this affect your strategy?
- How does the larger map size and Epic game speed affect your strategy

Priorities: Sailing
Social policies: Liberty tree to get that free Great Scientist; later we'll go Commerce for faster sailing.
Tech path: Sailing!
Wonders: Faster sailing with Great Lighthouse.
City States: Set sail to find them.
Large map: Need for faster sailing...
Epic speed: More turns to sail...

 

[DaveMcW]

Wow, I built the Great Library around turn 70.

Didn't realize how lucky I was.

 

[golem]

I have strange experience and do not know what happened. I wanted to go thorough narrow channel between Tyre and Stockholm with my SotLs. Movement eight was reduce to two in the channel and all ships stoped. Does anybody know why? Is it some bug?

I decided to look closer and for test conquered Stockholm - see nothing, but now the ships can go normally.

P.S. The similar thing is on the approach to Paris for embarked units (only on water) - maybe I missing something

 

[danglading]

I have strange experience and do not know what happened. I wanted to go thorough narrow channel between Tyre and Stockholm with my SotLs. Movement eight was reduce to two in the channel and all ships stoped. Does anybody know why? Is it some bug?

I decided to look closer and for test conquered Stockholm - see nothing, but now the ships can go normally.

P.S. The similar thing is on the approach to Paris for embarked units (only on water) - maybe I missing something

Were you at war with either of those CS's? If so, their zone of control might have stopped you from moving past in one turn.

 

[golem]

Were you at war with either of those CS's? If so, their zone of control might have stopped you from moving past in one turn.

Yes I was. But I did not notice this anywhere else.

 

[danglading]

Yes I was. But I did not notice this anywhere else.

Typically your SotL's have enough movement to "go around" units/cities that you are at war with. If you were pinched between two land masses (I don't remember the geometry here), there might not have been anywhere to "go around", so you would be stopped for that turn. If you look at the proposed path when you're plotting your movement, sometimes you'll see the proposed path jump to the side of a hostile unit/city (i.e., go around) before continuing to your chosen destination. The animation does not show this, just the proposed path.

I faced a similar problem while fighting the Ottomans in the narrow channel to the south of Istanbul.

 

[Tsaghen]

Embarked units are affected by land units zone of control.

 

[golem]

Embarked units are affected by land units zone of control.

Thanks, that is clear now. But why ships sometimes? Is there any rule for them?

 

[Ribannah]

Non-RA game, no shortcuts

It is turn 122 and we are making great progress in the science department. We finished Civil Service, bulbed Education with a Great Scientist from the Liberty tree, bought a University. London employed two scientists and has begun on the Hagia Sophia. We have sacrificed our two Great Generals for a Golden Age of 18 turns.

The mid-game was quite eventful. The Ottomans declared and tried to take undefended York. We bought a Trireme and a Warrior (our second melee unit!), and after four of their Warriors were taken out they resigned, gifting us Sugar and 270g to compensate. A good deal!

We are not quite ready to attack the AI just yet, but are building our fleet. Our Triremes - we have eight now - are target-practicing on Sydney, and are getting closer to aquiring the highly valued logistics promotion.

We have no knowledge of Iron Working yet, but will research it in the next two turns. One AI remains missing, apparently without a coastal connection, as well as two City States.


Turns 63-122

Cities
83 Hastings (2 Gold)

Allies
83 Geneva (cultural, Whales)
97 Genoa (food, Cotton)

Policies
80 Representation
98 Republic
116 Meritocracy (liberty tree complete)

Technology
63 Trapping
76 Optics
86 Philosophy
91 Masonry
95 Calendar
111 Bronze Working (ruins)
112 Theology
122 Civil Service, Education (GS)

London
65 Trireme 350g
74 Library, Worker 420g
81 Settler
83 Workboat
87 Workboat
92 Trireme
93 Great General#1
111 NATIONAL COLLEGE
116 Barracks, Great Scientist (tree)
119 Great General#2
121 Circus
122 University 890g

York
71 Trireme 350g
72 Warrior 270g
78 Worker 420g
89 Library
108 Lighthouse
121 Trireme

Nottingham
71 Monument
92 Library
111 Lighthouse

Hastings
83 Library 550g
98 Monument
99 Trireme 350g
109 Lighthouse
121 Trireme