TSG42 After Action Report

[Rciv]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-20
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1830AD
Turns played: 285
Base score: 2449
Final score: 4296

Well not a very quick one. At the start I built 3 archers, upgraded them and as soon as I got iron and Swordsmen I attacked Sweden and took them out. Austria was next, offered little resistance. And then also the Celts. So I got 12 cities and basically went to the end with only 1 RA with Greece. At the end I just allied all the CS with a lot of money and that was it.

This was the first time I played for Diplomatic victory. I see now that I should focus more on RA's and that it is Ok if I leave other civs to live and prosper.

 

[Tesuji]

The deciding factor was his population. Drakar signed 0 research agreements ..

I don't know what he did exactly. But AFAIK scientific research costs are not dependent on population like social policies. I'd be extremely surprised if he didn't sign any RA.

 

[drakar8888]

Well, there's obviously a little more to it. I tried what you described and ended up finishing in 283 turns. As a relative beginner I'm obviously missing a few tricks still to advance through the tech-tree fast.

283 is only marginally faster than the 300 turns it took my 'official' try, in which I took out Sweden and Austria and had 8 cities. And the first time around I had a much more comfortable win, with 15 votes vs. just scraping through with 10 the second try.

I think the deciding factor may be the number of RAs you can sign. In my first game, Sweden and Austria were obviously out. And Boudicca could never be persuaded to an RA either, so I rarely had more than 2 RAs going on at any one time.

The second time I managed to avoid war altogether. But Sweden took out Austria, Boudicca never wanted be friends, nor Thailand. Who got whacked by England later anyway. Sweden also started taking out city-states. At some point I had to give Quebec a gatling gun to hold off a troop of sword men.

So maybe some luck is required too, being able to stay on good terms with enough AIs. And to boot, the AIs need to stay alive.

I did not sign any RAs in my game, all the AIs were very behind in eras and were broke as I was taking away all their gold by selling them every resource I had.

My initial build order for the first ~100 turns was: (as best as I can remember)
scout-half-monument-shrine(pyramid)-finish monument-GL-granary-NC-HG-2 atlatist-The Pyramids-University

after NC get 2 settlers with a 1000 gold, I also used gold to rush-buy almost all the science buildings in the expansion cities, because it takes way too long to build them the normal way

I actually replayed the game using this same strat and it resulted in t215 win. Still nowhere near close to sub200. Seems like a wider empire might be the way to go for the fastest finish possible on this map.

 

[Bezhukov]

I did not sign any RAs in my game, all the AIs were very behind in eras and were broke as I was taking away all their gold by selling them every resource I had.

Seems like a wider empire might be the way to go for the fastest finish possible on this map.

Yeah, that's huge - lot of horses to sell. The limiting factor for me was AI gold, not stuff to sell.

Maya are ideal for wide empire with cheap pyramids giving you sci in every city and the double faith over normal shrines is also underrated - lets you choose a pantheon that doesn't boost faith.

I'm not a hardcore 200-turn kind of player, but Messenger of the Gods pantheon (+2 sci per trade route) with a liberty-fueled major ICS seems to hold some potential.

 

[Bezhukov]

Sure. Build order: Scout -- worker -- settler. Improved incense, immediately sold it to Sweden. Popped a 100g ruin, so on the turn incense was sold i had 500g for a settler. Settled the settler on top of copper and sold that instantly to Austria. That, plus small loan gave settler #4. Spices money bought worker #2. Worker #3 --> built. Worker #4 liberated from barbs.
..

So you just suck up the unhappiness until the trade agreements run out?

 

[Dreadnough]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-20
Reference number: 27010
Your name: Dreadnough
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1670AD
Turns played: 244
Base score: 1514
Final score: 3154
Time played: 6:57:00
Submitted save: TSG42.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Dreadnough_C504201.Civ5Save

This was a nice game. I went with my settler northeast and settled next to the river at turn three. After this things started to going very well. The same turn I founded my village I got a Pop ruin. The advanced weapon ruin was nice against the barbs, culture ruin in time and some gold helped as well.

I went for a ICS type of game, never did it before and I am sure I could had gotten more cities. The amount of science was really nice. Unfortunatally I made the blunder to take Patronage. Should had gotten at least three points in Rationalism. In the end I had all CS but four allied without paying any attention to them. I didn't even bother to check for their quests for most of the time, just build two roads.

The free great persons were really fun. I started with a scientist, which I settled. Followed by an Engineer to get Oracle, finished libertytree, got a second Engineer, got Hagia Sophia, Great Prophet and enhanced religion. I don't know if this was smart, but I liked it. Took Great Prophet as third, which was a mistake. I generated enough faith to get another two prophets by default. With a later Great Prophet I could have saved a lot of faith. The Great Admiral was pointless, the Great General stole two truffles from Boudicca.

I didn't notice the raging part of the barbarians at all. Got an Atlatlist very early to defend against barbs, but only one managed to get to my tiles. Already had games with more threatening barbs, who were not raging.

Gustavus declared war on me on turn 230 ish. But it was no real problem and very soon he asked for peace, giving me all of his money. I only needed a gatlinggun and a crossbowman as defense.

But I don't understand how others were able to sell their luxurys so early to support early workers/settlers. Only one KI ever got more than 500 gold and I often had to sell my double luxurys for way less than 240 gold, just because they had no gold.

 

[Arilian]

I did not sign any RAs either.

 

[arieltal]

Game:Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-20
Your name: arieltal
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1907AD
Turns played: 327
Base score: 2147
Final score: 3303
Time played:3:23:00

well i started by going tradition -> patronage
first eliminated austria and after that sweden,
signed one RA with sweden, before he Denounced me for killing austria,
however i managed not to kill all his troops, so he was left with 3 units alive
and no cities. good choice for taking a civ out and avoiding the diplo penalty..

 

[Tesuji]

I did not sign any RAs either.

Interesting. I learn something new every time.

 

[Arilian]

I am not saying it is the best. I used patronage for more science, and spend almost all my gold for buying universities and public schools.
I could have RAs after turn 140, but I have seen that they will gave me science too late.
Having a few RA's for getting Education and Scientific theory can make thing better imho.

 

[Suliz]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-21
Reference number: 27016
Your name: Suliz
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1915AD
Turns played: 335
Base score: 1985
Final score: 2962
Time played: 9:58:00
Submitted save: Pacal_0335 AD-1915.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Suliz_C504201.Civ5Save

My second GOTM since the the very early days after release, and while slow, at least I won this one (as opposed to #41, which I was never in contention for).

Raging barbs plus Atlatlist made getting a bunch of SP early quite easy. Ended up taking out Austria (converted my capital, couldn't allow that to go unpunished ), Sweden and Scotland (just to stop the missionaries).

SP: Honour opener (to aid in culture farming from barbs), Liberty, Patronage and Rationalism. Given the seeming ease of maintaining alliances, I am not sure if Patronage was really the way to go.

From looking over the other posts, I take that selling resources is fairly key to fast early expansion? I wasn't even aware that I could do that. Well, obviously at this point, there are lots of things I am not aware of. So, keeping playing and learn I guess.

Suliz

 

[Thresian]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-21
Reference number: 27017
Your name: Thresian
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1790AD
Turns played: 268
Base score: 3413
Final score: 6439
Time played: 14:32:00
Submitted save: Pacal_0268 AD-1790.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Thresian_C504201.Civ5Save

I tried going for ICS in this game, which I've never done before, so I knew it wouldn't be a competitive time.

Initial build order in all cities was pyramid, monument, circus where possible, market. I got slowed down a bit when Gustav and Maria declared on me together. I'd made the mistake of settling right next to Gustav's borders without bringing any units down. They declared the next turn, and Gustav actually took the city. I always have difficulty on the lower difficulty settings with working out exactly how much of a push-over the AI is going to be. Any way, I had to switch to producing some units, and wiped out Gustav, which at least gave me plenty of space. Maria never showed up for the war and eventually paid me for peace, so I just settled all around her.

The Celts irritated me by (a) settling on the truffles before I could and (b) founding a religion. So they had to die, and with the help of a great prophet, Christianity was soon wiped out.

Alex wanted to be my friend, and this is a diplomatic game, right? So I agreed, and then he wanted to go to war with Liz, and it would have been rude to refuse, and besides Liz had also founded a religion, so she had to die too. Then Alex wanted to wail on Rami, and I thought we might as well take him out too, since he's not going to vote for us any way, because for some reason he thinks I'm a war-monger. So Rami died, and then I took out Maria for the sake of completion.

Religion was: messenger of the gods, +1 from shrines, pagodas and ceremonial burial.

In the end, I founded 19 of my own cities, plus 14 puppets. At the end of the game, I had 2290 bpt and 28. I built the UN with two GEs, one from the Leaning Tower and one from the Long Count. Alex and all CSs voted for me.

Policies were full Liberty, full Patronage, top half of Rationalism.

Things which I could have done better: (i) when Gustav and Maria declared on me, I got a bit carried away with building units, when I should have been chunking out settlers/workers, (ii) I bought too many pagodas - after a certain point, I should have saved my faith to buy GSs to bulb through to Globalisation, (iii) I should have given a higher priority to getting all cities to build universities, as it's the tech which is critical, (iv) I should have made better use of my gold - I spent most of the game sitting on several thousand, which I could have spent on buildings.

 

[Haphaz]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-21
Reference number: 27018
Your name: Haphaz
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1770AD
Turns played: 264
Base score: 1869
Final score: 3594
Time played: 4:57:00

Another fun GOTM - thanks GOTM team.

How have the changes affected your strategy and game planning?

- on my third GOTM now. More confident about playing without reloads. Recruit more scouts to figure out grand strategy and also to watch out for (inevitable) DOWs, given the small no. of units I have to run with.

How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?

- Went for major religion, with Mt Sinai, pyramids, wine/incense religious choices and papal primacy (resting point was +45 - perm friend bonuses!). Ended up with all 39 cities on the map adopting my religion. DOW'd Celts when one of their Great Prophets turned up on my border then wiped them out to stop Confus. spread. When Athens got their Industrial age religion, I'd wiped it out with a GP in 5 turns. Should have chosen Tithe.

How did your opponents affect your strategy?

I knew Austria would be in a diplomatic game - its too irresistible for the GOTM staff . When I saw even Sweden had puppeted a CS, I knew a tall peacemonger strategy had gone out the window. Sweden DOW'd me - I survived the rush then wiped them out (bar one sad warrior who presumably died of natural causes 1000 years later).

Other highlights:

Half my culture, lots of science, food and faith from CS, along with most strategic resources. Had something like 40 of each resource type at the end. Having 14 CS allies is cool (took me ages to find Brussels though).

Maya long count bonus cool, when going with faith (no need to focus so much on GP generation when you can choose them periodically / buy them with faith).

I was fooled by that lake in the NE. Settled on it thinking it was coastal. To compound my idiocy, I got not one, but two great admirals appear in it.

Petra + Mt Sinai =

You need two GE to rush UN. That and forgetting to use a GS and researching Fertilizer lost me about 20 turns. Oh well.

First game I've played without taking tradition. Border spread so difficult without it.

GOTM training has made Prince seem too easy - even with raging hordes and jungle. Took a while to adjust though; first few turns were scary.

 

[AlexAdam]

Your name: AlexAdam
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1745AD
Turns played: 259
Base score: 1419
Final score: 2782

I thought I was doing fine with my end game when I realised Scientific Revolution - the third SP from the left branch of Rationalism - does not give you two free technologies anymore... Of course, it's the Rationalism finisher that does. Therefore, my choice of finishing Patronage instead of Rationalism was a poor one which costed me about 16 turns. To make things worst, I was hoping for a CS to give me a GE for the UN, but all I kept getting was GGs... I was offered 3 GGs in total.

I did not sign any RAs because everybody was broke from the beginning.

 

[airneck]

Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1735AD
Turns played: 257
Base score: 860
Final score: 1686
Time played: 2:24:00


my fastest DV



Founded 3 cities, wanted big cities with a high number of citizens.
Third one against the mountain up north.
Wanted a peaceful game and it was...
But Maria Theresa was a real pain, denouncing 3 times... lucky for her I decided to be science focused all along.
Would have been a real pleasure to get rid of her two cities.

All 3 cities were Science Focused as soon as I get 3 universities.


3 or 4 RA, can't remember, sorry
All with Sweden.

Friend with Gustavus all along the game.
Allied with 4 CS quickly and all of them round turn 240
Cost me of fortune and spies were needed in many CS.
I was ahead in science and nothing to steal...

Policies :
All tradition, then all Rationalism and finally 2 patronages


Library->University->Astronomy->Public School-> Research Lab...

Wonders
GL, PT, CN Tower for fun (what a boost for culture !)

Religions
Food oriented mostly and 15% expansion limits... Tithe also


Was quite easy, could have probably won earlier.
Should have research Fertilization and Railroad sooner, seems to kick ass and increase production.

A quick view of the Turn 150 and the final turn

 

[airneck]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Never bothered to explore, never met the 5th AI, signed 0 RAs.
I am looking forward to see some sub-t200 submissions on this one and hope to see a domination game in 2 weeks.

Really impressive, congrats drakar8888

I was wondering how you proceed to get such a big capital "35 points of population" Amazing.
Could you tell us more about your buildings, policies choices and religions beliefs?


For instance, at the end of my game, Turn 257, Palenque was 28 pts.
I mean, more than 50 turns later, my capital was still smaller than you (35 points)
I picked up Full Tradition then Full Rationalism and 2 patronages at the very end.

And my religions choice were :

Did you "food focused" your capital?
Did you use Gold to buy some extra land ?
Did you choose religions beliefs focused on food enhancement ?

thanks for your reply and tips

I believe that the size of the cities is a main key to a fast victory of any kind more than the numbers of cities.
Do you share the same feeling ?

 

[drakar8888]

@airneck

Well, I really suck at doing detailed write-ups. You should check out some of the posts of people with earlier finish dates that are way better than me. You can definitely improve your own game a lot just by reading them. That being said I will try to answer your questions as best as I remember from that game.

About the capital growing so fast there are 3 key things:

1) I got hanging gardens at around turn 70ish, since the difficulty is prince you can get any wonder you want. Hanging gardens is a big deal early in the game as it allows you to keep growing at good rate while not necessarily working farmed tiles. So capital keeps growing while working the spices and incense tiles which have only one point of food on them but generate huge amounts of gold. And gold is good.

2) I made allying maritime city-states priority. There are 4 maritimes nearby so after I scouted them I send my small army to clear all the barb encampments they wanted as quests first, then I did their great person quest requirements first(Maya civ ftw), I even threw some gold at them when they had the "gold gifts produce more influence" quest.
Basically I got a great admiral first(as opposed to getting an early academy from scientist) even though it gets stuck in a lake and is totally useless, but the benefit of having an early allied maritime is just too huge and makes it worth it.

3)Eventually I farmed all the tiles adjacent to river and the lake as they get +2 food bonus. I notice from your screenshot you have left jungle and even forests which can potentially be 4-food tiles.


My policies were full Tradition, 2 policies from Rationalism and 2 policies from Patronage, both on the left side.

I don't remember spending any gold to buy tiles, but in your game you should have definitely bought the left-side horse tile and not leave it to Austria. It would have more than paid for itself even if it was only 2 horses there.

Another small tip - don't make plantations on bananas but leave the jungle on them. 4 food 2 science tile is better than 5 food tile.

I don't use auto-focuses on my city-tiles, instead I lock them all manually as I feel like it. I believe everything the game does automatically - like autoworkers, tile-focusing, tech suggestions, etc. is completely awful and should be avoided like the plague.

I don't remember all my religion bonuses but I had the 15% growth one and the one that gives +1 food from shrines and temples in each city.

Hope some of this was helpful.

 

[Arilian]

"2) I made allying maritime city-states priority. There are 4 maritimes nearby so after I scouted them I send my small army to clear all the barb encampments they wanted as quests first"

I almost did the same, but with the following difference:

1. I gave them protection asap.
2. I was waiting for the first few barb to spawn and killed them near their border.
3. Then cleared the camp for them.

Somtimes because the raging barbs I did not even ever clear, The southest CS had 120+ allied with me only just killing barbs with one spearmean. Sometimes you have a good spot to kill low HP barbs for them.

 

[GreedysMaximus]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-23
Reference number: 27038
Your name: GreedysMaximus
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1680AD
Turns played: 246
Base score: 1285
Final score: 2622
Time played: 3:52:00
Submitted save: Pacal_0246 AD-1680.Civ5Save
Renamed file: GreedysMaximus_C504201.Civ5Save

Finished this one today. Lost one citizen early on because of an unknown reason, prolly the barbs stepping on the food tiles, PFF. The start was a wonder spam in the capital - GL, Pyramids, HG and NC to finish up. Quite a rough start, sweden and Austria hated me all game so i had a hard time trading and i couldn't get a lot of CSs either.
The problem always has been where to get the gold for the settlers, this game was no different, eventually just 4 cities and the last one was settled in the late 90's because i didn't have 400 to rush a library. I took out both of the neighbours during the next 100 runs, happiness was an issue for a long time.

Religion: 3+production, 2gold for city, 2faith for each wonder, 15%production and 50 faith for each dewd. Should've taken a happiness belief .
Policy-wise had full tradition, 3 patronage, 2 left rationalism, order opener and the commerce opener. 6GS total i bought at least 2 with faith and also 2GEs from faith.
Elizabeth couped almost ten times in a row combining two citystates and i lost one 3 rank spy after taking a risk with a 70% coup chance - what a "fun" mechanic this is.

Now it's time to think how i will shave off ca 40 turns, with rati finisher i could've done it way faster, but that means no GEs from order. Also i can see that Tabarnak's capital at early 190's is almost as big as mine 50 turns later. How the hell do you grow your cities so fast? Food focus all game long? I tend to Micro towards my tiles towards wonder production(without totally sacrificing growth) especially early on, is this a mistake?

 

[zetthen]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 42
Date submitted: 2012-08-23
Reference number: 27042
Your name: zetthen
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1806AD
Turns played: 273
Base score: 1403
Final score: 2598
Time played: 5:45:00

Pretty average game. Struggled to get going in the beginning, but got up to 6 cities eventually. Lost some important wonders and had some other near missed - like losing troops to barbs in the staet, etc.

Overall quite ok result, but could have been a lot better - nice game though