TSG44 After Action Report

Game status: Culture Victory
Game date:1826AD
Turns played: 283
Base score: 846
Final score: 1510
Time played: 2:58:00
**The time played can't be right -- I started the game yesterday on a laptop I use when I'm traveling and then emailed the save to myself earlier today to finish on my home rig -- I think this is just the time I spent this evening after loading the save at home.

I hadn't played a culture or OCC game since G&K came out (I do like that GOTM forces variety), so this was interesting, but I totally didn't think through my policy order or other timings well enough.

Finished Tradition and then completed Patronage before opening Piety. That, combined with jumping over to take the Freedom opener when I hit Industrial, greatly delayed getting Reformation and Religious Tolerance and had me receiving random great person gifts from CSs (two GEs and a GS, plus one GA), which was great in vanilla, but royally screws things up in G&K. After finishing Piety, I finished the right side of Freedom before taking Liberty, which delayed both the Representation Golden Age and the "free" GA with the Liberty finisher. Got to plan better the next time I try this.

Other significant mistake was approaching this too much as a science-y game (figuring I would focus on the culture techs, rather than the "techs that give you more techs"). So, I kept the University and Schools specialists slots filled far too long (maybe never should have filled them at all) and definitely never should have filled the Workshop slot -- probably cost me two or three GAs, and the additional tech (two planted academies and two lackluster bulbs--one from the CS-gifted GS) and random wonder bulbed with GEs weren't worth that loss. Only ended up with 7 landmarks (two from faith purchases) and two holy sites, and some came way too late to have meaningful cumulative impact. Also, I waiting way too long to use Oxford (I'm so used to using it on Satellites that I never thought to use it until after I had teched everything that mattered).

Felt pretty good about the rest of the game. Sinai meant I could forego an early shrine and I got a free temple with Hagia Sophia (also built Great Mosque). Founded and enhanced my religion with natural GPs, so I used the GP from HS to convert the four nearby CSs and then sent out three sets of 3-shot missionaries. By mid-game, I had 36 cities and each other religion had only their holy cities -- at the end it was 45 cities, and Persia had 7 (never bothered with a missionary in that direction).

Took God of the Sea, ceremonial burial, cathedrals, plowshares and itinerant preachers. Should have taken Pagodas instead of plowshares -- I really could have used the extra culture and I already had Temple of Artemis, so I didn't really need the plowshares food boost.

Wonders came easily after the early game, although I tried to be selective (e.g., since I had ToA, I didn't chase Hanging Gardens). The one I hated to miss was Terracotta Army; I didn't even tech construction until after I saw it go. Could have had it easily, but I'm not used to prioritizing it in other games and felt no need to get CBs early since the barbs were hardly "raging" (I had one - one! -- barb visit my capital) and I had no hostile interactions with any AI (no DOWs, no threatening moves, and darn few grumpy warnings). Never built a military -- mainly received gifted units from CSs that were periodically awed by something I did. My lonely inital scout finally got home on turn 206 after exploring the known world - I threw him a "welcome home" party, let him play with the elephants for a few turns, and then deleted him (can't waste gpt on maintenance, even for someone that loyal and resilient).
 
Like mentioned here before: Just pay your CS ally 200 gold and they will connect the resource for you. I did it that way ;)

That worked for me too!

I tried that but the option to Improve a Resource was redded out. Wasn't allowing me to do it.

I think you should have checked all the CSs because some of they are more rechnologically advanced than the others...

Halcyan2 said:
Hmm, can someone please confirm whether Statue of Liberty gives +1 hammers to unemployed people? It used to but not so sure after the latest patch, since the Korean +2 science no longer works with unemployed people (it used to).

Although tooltip says +2 hammers when point mouse over unemployed person, in fact every unemployed person gives only 1 hammer - it's easy to check.

Halcyan2 said:
Yeah, I probably should have done that, but I thought my capital looked so much prettier with the landmarks! :lol:

Didn't know that i can destroy landmarks... thanks for the tip Attaturk!

This is how my cap looked like in the end:

51668_Civ5Screen0012.jpg
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 44
Date submitted: 2012-09-19
Reference number: 27263
Your name: Suliz
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1826AD
Turns played: 283
Base score: 734
Final score: 1310
Time played: 7:34:00
Submitted save: GOTM 44 end Sejong_0283 AD-1826.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Suliz_C504401.Civ5Save

Well, that was kind of fun. I enjoyed the map.

SP: Tradition- full, Patronage/Piety - switched back and forth, started with Aesthetics, switched back to grab Mandate of Heaven (very helpful given the insane levels of happiness, at game end I was at 177), then completed as seemed best, somewhere in there took the commerce opener. I remember taking a couple of policies in this period that I wished I could have been putting into the Freedom tree, but hadn't reached the Industrial era yet.

So, trees in order of completion: Tradition, Piety, Patronage, Freedom, and Commerce. I think in retrospect, Commerce was a mistake. Most of its policies are pretty useless for an OCC cultural victory. Usually with raging barbs, I will get the Honour opener either first or second, probably should stuck with that, or finished with the liberty tree, the GE would have saved me some turns.


Tech - Can't say I had any great plan, just tended to beeline for whatever the closest Science/Cultural tech was.

Religion - wasted money to rush buy a shrine on turn 13 cause I hadn't seen Sinai yet, still my religion (Pizzaism), was established by turn 48.

Beliefs
God of the Sea
Papal Primacy
Cathedrals
Religious Art
Religious Unity

Obviously, I was aiming at CS control, which I got.

Only had one war, that was with Persia, and mostly because I kept letting militaristic CS gift me units. War only lasted 10 turns, insta-razed two of his cities. The insta-razing meant there was no happiness hit.

Like a couple of order posters, Egypt did send a GP my way, fortunately I saw it in time and had enough faith to buy an inquisitor. Otherwise, I would have had to obliterate his entire civilization. :)

Odds and ends:

Didn't realize there was a land bridge to Persia until around turn 190.
Loved being able to sell so many luxuries for so long.
Biggest error I think was not pushing early growth hard enough. I saw a screenshot on the in progress thread with a population of 25 by turn 120. I am sure I wasn't more than 16 or 17 at that point. Only finished at 28.
Spent most of the second half of the game in a golden age. Counts at game end: BPT: 263, CPT: 693 (a little deceptive, since I pulled my cultural specialists to maximize production)
 
So, trees in order of completion: Tradition, Piety, Patronage, Freedom, and Commerce. I think in retrospect, Commerce was a mistake. Most of its policies are pretty useless for an OCC cultural victory. Usually with raging barbs, I will get the Honour opener either first or second, probably should stuck with that, or finished with the liberty tree, the GE would have saved me some turns.
I also had Commerce as my fifth tree. I thought it was a decent choice.

Commerce opener gives you +25% gold (and in one city challenge, almost all your gold is coming from your capital) and lets you buy Great Merchants (maybe get one cheap near the end game when the other Great People cost so much).

Naval Tradition was not amazing, but the extra movement for embarked units could be helpful. Great Admiral not so great (though that reminds me where I got my Admiral from. Thought it was from the CS but it was actually from this!).

Merchant Navy is probably the best. +3 production is nice for your capital. Much better than the production boost from Liberty's Republic.

Trade Unions crappy for OCC since you have no roads. I suppose you get +2 gold (from Harbor + Trade Unions) but that's about it.

Mercantilism is nice since you may be purchasing lots of buildings. Also a small science boost.

Protectionism gives extra happiness which gets converted to culture via Mandate of Heaven.

Commerce finisher is kinda crappy though.

I kind of miss the +1 gold for each specialist that was in vanilla. Would have been sweet for Korea!

In contrast Liberty's opener (+1 culture) is very weak in the end game. The production from Republic is a pittance. The worker and settler bonuses are fairly useless by mid-game. You don't get a culture cost reduction from Representation (only one city) so all you get is a Golden Age (which by the end game you can get lots of Artists). You only have one city for Meritocracy so no + happiness, though you get a -5% unhappiness reduction. The Great Person is nice, but that's the main thing. So you're mainly getting some very small culture/production/happiness benefits, a Golden Age, and a Great Person. I think Commerce is much better for OCC. ;)
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 44
Date submitted: 2012-09-19
Reference number: 27266
Your name: Arilian
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1640AD
Turns played: 238
Base score: 844
Final score: 1795
Time played: 1:48:00
Submitted save: Arilian_Sejong_0238 AD-1640.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Arilian_C504401.Civ5Save


Trad - Piety - 3 from Patronage - Freedom (should start it sooner but science was not very good and had to wait) - Finished Patro - Liberty.

Religion: Godess of Sea (Maybe Godess of hunt would have been better, but I am not sure) + 8 Cluture from Hermitage +1 Culture for every 4 citizen in foreign (BIG MISTAKE, granted only 30 culture at the end and I spent missionary to spread along with another religin of +spread range)

I was not really patient as the game was too easy, at the end I had 980 culture, and 168 happy :)

Having cathedral from faith at the beginning would have been much better. Also spent my money someting and my GE for some unimportant wonder, so had to hard build museum and louvre...

close to 200 is possible imho.
 
They way you explain your game Arilian it's like you made a lot of mistakes but still managed to go under 240 turns :goodjob: :crazyeye:

Around 200 turns? Really? My 734 cpt is a shame compared to you. I guess you made some right choices(and the good order) about religion and policy stuff.
 
Your name: Cromagnus
Game status: Culture Victory
Game date: 1816AD
Turns played: 278
Base score: 949
Final score: 1725

What went wrong:
* Forgetting this was Warlord. I played like it was Deity for a while, and that totally slowed me down. I went really defensive and never got attacked. (check the screenshot for my pointless Citadels. +2 science FTW! lol) Seriously I couldn't BUY a DoW haha. I think I ended up building Great Library on turn 50 when I realized none of the AIs even had Writing yet. #wtfbbq
* Triggering a golden age by accident early on when I meant to plant a GA. I opted not to reload. But it was an absent-minded misclick. :-(
* I never found one of the CS. Maybe it got captured. I dunno. Whatever. I hope it wasn't a cultural CS. :-P
* Boredom. I got distracted and decided to go for the Holy Father achievement and get 12 allied City States following my religion. That was a huge timesink. I spawned at least 8 missionaries unnecessarily, which would have given me another GA in the mid-game. And I didn't even get the achievement after all that. :-P
* I forgot to start using my artist slots as soon as I got them. My previous game was Deity OCC Science, so I knee-jerk focused on science. Whoops.
* I unnecessarily spawned 2 great engineers and 1 great scientist. Again, knee-jerk. I forgot that, with the AI being so slow, I could tech up the tree slowly, chewing up all the Wonders. In sum total, I missed out on at least 5 landmarks due to errors. Finished with 9, could have had 14!
* More boredom. I decided it would be fun to delete all the units that weren't unique, so I went from #1 military to #2 right before the end. I think that affected my final score. Still, I liked seeing my army of Turtle Ships, Sipahi, Hussar and Minutemen. 15 Allied CS is ridiculous. I was constantly deleting gifted units to keep upkeep down. The only units I still owned at the end that I built myself were my Turtle Ships and a Cannon that I accidentally upgraded from a Hwacha. Damnit! :-P

What went right:
* Religion: Normally I would have blown this off, but c'mon. You can't ignore a +8 faith tile in your starting city lol. If this start wasn't hand-built I'll eat my hat. I almost never plant my settler where he starts, but this was just too good.
Pantheon - Goddess Of The Hunt (Normally I would take +10% growth, but 6 camps = +6 food! All You Can Eat Buffet Time!!)
Founder Belief - Papal Primacy (Possibly unnecessary, but with Patronage, trivial to stay allied with the cultural CS. Again, I was playing like I was on Deity. I could have just bought ally status with all my extra money. By the mid-game I was allied with every CS and it stayed that way)
Follower: Religious Art (+8 Culture? No brainer)
2nd Follower: Cathedrals (+3 culture and an artist slot? No brainer)
Enhancer: 25% cheaper Great Prophets (Meh. I wasted one as a missionary. The extra Holy Site would have helped. This was the hardest decision of the 5 beliefs)

* Growth: As stated above... I was hovering around +25 food throughout the game. I focused on Temple of Artemis and Hanging Gardens early. To start, I purchased 1 worker, stole another, and then purchased 3 work boats with the first Ivory. 250 gold = 1 luxury = 240 gold = almost free work boat. So, basically in 3 rounds I purchased 3 work boats. By then my next Ivory camp was done, so I purchased another. For a plains start, this was sick food. Even with max specialists and putting landmarks on my food tiles, I still hit 33 pop. I had the #1 population with only one city. #lolwarlord

* Happiness: 194 base happiness = Chain golden ages without using Great Artists

* 1050 culture/turn. I just wish I'd cranked it up earlier. Sigh. I kept thinking I needed to beat the AI to Wonders, so I maxed production and got GEs instead. #warlord

* City State Quests: Once I realized I was completely out-teching the AI, I sent all but one unit off to hunt down barbs. Even before I went Patronage I had most of the CS eating out of my hand.

* Social Policies: Tradition -> Piety -> Patronage -> Freedom -> Commerce. I'm not sure about Commerce, but at that point I didn't care. I put one point in Liberty for the heck of it after I started the Utopia project. Commerce was nice because I just I don't think I produced anything but Wonders after the early game. Everything else I just bought outright, which allowed me to pick up *every single* +3 or better culture or artist slot Wonder. #warlord

Total playtime: 4:18. This was kind of a yawnfest, after the initial excitement of dominating wore off. At least it went fast.

This was my first GoTM and I really did actually have a good time. I don't want to sound ungrateful to the OP. I enjoyed the map, and look forward to the next one. Hopefully next time it'll be Immortal or Deity. :-D
 

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I seriously doubt about that... i never seen CV in G&K faster than 221 Turns (and that game was played with known map and a lot of reloads during the process).

200 seems possible in Warlord. Considering this was my first try at Cultural OCC, I'm positive that had I not made 3 key mistakes I would have gotten down to 240ish. An experienced Cultural OCC player probably has mad strats I haven't thought of!

If not for just those 3 mistakes I would have ended the game with 1200 culture/turn. Instead I only hit 1050 and I peaked very late. I didn't rush for Hermitage, I didn't max out my artist slots as soon as I could, and I missed many opportunities to plant landmarks.

(And yes I'm counting my Golden Age Culture/turn, not base. I think Golden Age numbers should count if you're at base 194 Happiness and triggering Golden Ages through Wonders and Policies to fill in the gaps. #lolwarlord)
 
...
Trad - Piety - 3 from Patronage - Freedom (should start it sooner but science was not very good and had to wait) - Finished Patro - Liberty.

Religion: Godess of Sea (Maybe Godess of hunt would have been better, but I am not sure) + 8 Cluture from Hermitage +1 Culture for every 4 citizen in foreign (BIG MISTAKE, granted only 30 culture at the end and I spent missionary to spread along with another religin of +spread range)

I was not really patient as the game was too easy, at the end I had 980 culture, and 168 happy :)

Having cathedral from faith at the beginning would have been much better. Also spent my money someting and my GE for some unimportant wonder, so had to hard build museum and louvre...

Yeah, I went Goddess of the Hunt. +6 food in this start. My argument is that you need the production for Wonders more than you need the money, especially early on, and camps = production. This allowed me to completely avoid the growth vs production dilemna. I wasn't even working ocean tiles until much later. I went Cathedrals for the artist slot, which I think was worth it, but then I forgot to use any of my artist slots until turn 150... sigh lol. Still, you beat me by 40 turns, so you must have done something really badass. I know one thing I failed on was not rushing for Hermitage. Maybe switching over to Freedom was huge for you? I blindly focused on finishing Patronage first... Between that and not using my artist slots, that probably would explain the difference. I'm tempted to go back and see how it would have turned out if I made those changes...

Nice finish man!
 
Should anyone get to the end of their game and the game will not let them finish it, please post the save here. We would like the save prior to the turn the game stops working, just in case we need to test and replicate the problem. :)

I ran into the bug where the game locks up when you get a cultural victory. (3rd time that's happened to me)

So, technically, I did reload from an autosave. (But I have autosave set up every 5 turns, so I only had to reload two turns where all I did essentially was click Next Turn)

Not sure if that's what you meant, but thought I should mention it just in case this disqualifies my finish.
 
One thing I did really right, that I had 2 scouts and I used them actively hunting barb camp. In this level they can kill a barb camp alone (if it have a brute).

I am not sure patronage was bad or good. Commerce would gave me +3 prod, +20 happy (=10 culture because of piety) vs some science and 1GM I got from them. I was able to be allied almost all CS.

Got lots of military units and never got attacked by anyone, even I did not built anything beside my starting scouts. I might try this again to see how it is done.

BTW I got the achivement for beating level 3 in CIV, I never played this before in 2 years :)
 
Game status:Culture Victory
Game date:1725AD
Turns played:255
Base score:832
Final score:1631
Time played:8:51:00

Terrible finish, i was very slow at the end taking 7-8 turns per policy. Maxed out about 730cpt, with 173 happy. Over 360 bpt and i still did not get to STofL in time to build it.
I tried oveflow but Oda built Kremlin removing my vital stepping stone, otherwise a 5 turn utopia would have been possible, as it was it was 8 turns. I run out of GA at the end, adding a turn. Messed up great people managemnt around ToPisa time and had another 8 turn stretch w/o GA.

Maybe paying some gold to attila early to get my WLTK days would have helped. Not sure how i could have shaved more then 4-8 turns the way i played it. Getting HG would be nice and delaying oracle as it seems everyone else did. Maybe earlier Cult CS allainces but it seems i was doing ok early on looking at tabarnak's game.

Also i did not get cathedral from religion which was a mistake that extra artist slot would have meant a lot. only settled 4 GA burned rest on GAges starting around t118.

Took honor as the optional policy and again not sure if it paid off. i killed lots of barbs, it helped early but not as much as i thought.

I would like to see more of Arillian's game to see how its done.:goodjob:

I did get my Turtle Power achievement though, lol

No more end turn warlord fests plz, if we need an easier game prince or king would have been enough, i dont think anyone ever clamors for that low of a level :)
 
I ran into the bug where the game locks up when you get a cultural victory. (3rd time that's happened to me)

So, technically, I did reload from an autosave. (But I have autosave set up every 5 turns, so I only had to reload two turns where all I did essentially was click Next Turn)

Not sure if that's what you meant, but thought I should mention it just in case this disqualifies my finish.
Reloading due to a crash will not disqualify you generally. You should have your autosave interval set to 1 turn.

In future, please send along crash reports via Private Message instead of posting them publicly. Thanks.

Did it require you three tries to get the game to end? Or were some of those from other culture games?
 
Reloading due to a crash will not disqualify you generally. You should have your autosave interval set to 1 turn.

In future, please send along crash reports via Private Message instead of posting them publicly. Thanks.

Did it require you three tries to get the game to end? Or were some of those from other culture games?

Those were other games. My first ever cultural win crashed and I had to replay 8 turns, which is the reason why I set it down to 5 turns in the first place. Maybe I should set it down to 1! hmm, lol that's a lot of save files!

And will do, just wasn't sure.
 
Those were other games. My first ever cultural win crashed and I had to replay 8 turns, which is the reason why I set it down to 5 turns in the first place. Maybe I should set it down to 1! hmm, lol that's a lot of save files!

And will do, just wasn't sure.
The system only keeps the original start file and five autosaves, iirc. Doesn't matter if the save interval is 1 or 10, keeps the same number. :)
 
You can specify as many autosaves as you like, as well as the autosave interval. Only limit appears to be your disk space.
 
Played again, just to see if I could hit the 240's, and ended up with 263. Nice, but frustrating... I thought for sure I could do better. I think I waited too long again to get into the Industrial Era. The double culture from landmarks is gigantic... the sooner you get it the better. Next time I do a Cultural VC I'm making a mad dash for Freedom, so I can open it right after I finish Piety. I think most wonders are a complete waste of time compared to +12 culture/tile. Interestingly my culture/turn was much less on this win, even though I finished 15 turns faster and had more landmarks. Probably because I didn't tech far enough to get broadcast towers...

One thing I'm not sure was right is that I alternated between landmarks and golden ages starting at turn 200 so I could stay in a continuous golden age. I thought the math worked out... A golden age 20% bonus for 12 turns when you're generating 500+ culture is 1200+ extra culture, and by the end you're generating at least 600. So, a planted landmark has to generate more than 1200 culture to be worth planting... unless you would extend your golden age beyond your Utopia Project build time otherwise.

But I was thinking it was 19 culture/turn from a landmark, not taking into account the bonus from Freedom. It was actually more like 38 culture/turn at the end. So 1200/38 is basically 32 turns. I started favoring golden ages when I had 50 turns left of policies, and I should have kept planting landmarks until I had about 30 turns left. Course that only shaves off a few turns, but still. The other reason to tech higher is that with only a factory, my production on Utopia sucked at the end, especially with all my mines replaced by landmarks.

Next time I'm gonna have 10 workers standing by ready to replace the landmarks with mines all at once. ;-)

Ok, 200 is sounding a lot more impossible now. :-P
 
Question: did everybody else build the Temple of Artemis?

I didn't because I just might have misinterpreted its food modifier. Is is a 10% bonus to all food generated or just the food surplus? If it's all food generated, then... damn! :lol:
 
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