Tupac04 - Elizabeth NOW

tupaclives

Tupac Lives on!!
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
1,150
Location
Australia
Welcome friends to Tupac04 - Elizabeth NOW. Today we will see one of Civilization 3's most underrated Monarch's, the lovely(ish) Queen Elizabeth of England, take on 7 Deity Opponents NOW. Of course these poor chaps don't know what they are getting themselves into. Lizzie, the old girl, is just the sort to keep a grudge, so they had best be careful around her. Doing the bidding of this leading lady will be the Tupac02 team, hopefully backed up by a new player.

Vanilla 1.29f
Deity (if we find we are losing early then we might drop to emperor but that shouldn't be necessary)
England
7 opponents (Germany, Russia, France and 4 random civs)
Map settings TBA
No specified victory condition, but all conditions of grudge must be fulfilled (see below)

Special Rules

Arathorn's Comprehensive Guide to Variants said:
Non-Oscillating War (NOW): The first civ met must have war declared on them during initial diplomacy. Each later civ met gets added, in order, to a list. When the first AI civ on the list is eliminated, war must be declared on the second. As each is eliminated, the next must be declared on before the end of the turn. Other wars are allowed, and alliances are encouraged. Sandbagging or not finishing off a defeated foe simply to not go to war with the next one on the list is illegal. When two or more civs are met simultaneously (via contact sale, perhaps), it is player's choice which order to declare on them.

tupaclives said:
If an AI civ declares war on you, you may never sign a peace treaty with them. If an AI captures one of your cities it must be recaptured. There is no time limit as such but you are assumed to lose if the game ends before you recapture that city. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated, once again no time limit but they must be eliminated before the games end.


Game Rules
As modified from LK Rules

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

No 'Free Wealth' - Setting a city to wealth at the end of its project and then cycling through the cities at the start of the next turn and changing its project so that you still get the gold (commerce being calculated before anything else in the turn) but also get production

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Worker baiting - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.

Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.

House rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

3)You ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle.

4)In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it.

5)We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves and you may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy

6) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design unless previously discussed and approved by the team.

7) It is an expectation of all players on the team to log every turn played (even if it merely requires you to post 'zzz')

8) It is an expectation that you will always leave the next player an interturn, so make sure all saves are handed over at the end of your last turn and not the beggining of the next player's first turn.

9) Please complete your turnset. It is very annoying for the next player to receive a half-finished turnset.

10) If you sign up it is an expectation that you will try to see it through. Obviously in some situations, dropping out is unnavoidable but please try and stay the distance.


SG Rules

24 hour got it
72 hour playing time
The first player will play 40 turns, the rest of the team will play 20 turns in the first round. Once everyone has played 1 turnset all players will play 10 turn turnsets.
Playing order will be established after check in.

Roster
Reserved places

tupaclives - checked in
Lboogie13
McLman
Markh

Sign Ups

Mirc
 
May I join? I never really won at Deity. If this is a problem, then... I won't join :lol:

How do we know in Vanilla when we finished our turns and when to give the save to the next player?
 
Mirc said:
I never really won at Deity. If this is a problem, then...

Not a problem at all, Welcome aboard! Damn that was a fast response! :lol:

Mirc said:
How do we know in Vanilla when we finished our turns and when to give the save to the next player?

It is expected that you will keep a log of all turns played (even if it involves writing

'Turn 3 - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 4 - zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - worker finishes roading, starts mine

IBT -zzz...'

and so on. So you should be able to keep track of how many turns you've played. However I'm not too fussy if you play a turn or 2 more or less than you were supposed to, so long as the next player takes it into account. Its when people start playing 5 turns more that it starts to annoy me.
 
Thank you!
It got much easier to keep track of turns in C3C, since the VCS tells you the exact turn you are in.
If I'll get to play 2 turns more or less it would be by accident, I generally respect the rules of the SG.
 
Checking in.

Welcome Mirc.

Do you start a game, tupac or are we free to generate a map, too ?
 
Thats Markh checked in, still waiting on McLman and Lboogie13.

@Lord Emswerth - What exactly do you mean by 'if you like the start'? What sort of start are you thinking of?
@Merlin - as you are already a member of the Tupac Team you're welcome to play
@Sima - I was actually considering reserving a spot for you if you wanted it but I forgot to PM you before I started the thread so welcome aboard.

That gives a team of

tupaclives - confirmed
Lboogie13
McLman
Markh - confirmed
Mirc - confirmed
Merlin - confirmed
Sima - confirmed

Thats a squad of 7 and I really think thats as many as we can handle tops. At 20 turns a pop for each players first turn (plus 40 for whoever starts) that gives us 160 turns played before the second round. Yowza!

Lord Emswerth as you expressed an interest but didn't want to commit to signing up I'll put you in as a reserve. If McLman or Lboogie13 don't want to play, or someone has to drop out then you'll get preference with regards to replacing them. Thats assumign the start is to your likeing of course ;)

Sorry to anyone else interested in signing up but the team is already full.

@Markh - I think we should have a little discussion as to the map conditions first.

I personally think we should play either a continents or archipelago as that fits in with an English 'ruling the waves' theme. OTOH Arch might be too much of a cop out for this variant as we couldn't be attacked really.


With regards to a 'ruling the waves' theme, is anyone besides me interested in using a modified version of the 'I Dream of Dromons' special rules?
Namely:
Modified 'I Dream of Dromons said:
- We must build and maintain a massive fleet of naval units (starting with Men'o'War).

- While in the Age of Sail (magnetism) up until the end of the the Age of Ironclads (Once destroyers become available) we must use the bombardment-ability of our naval units while attacking coastal cities. The naval units have to redline the forces inside a city before our ground forces are allowed to attack. This rule obviously does not apply if the city is inland.
 
Regarding the "I Dream of Dromons" rule - suppose we also land a bunch of artillery by the coastal city. Do we have to do *all* the bombardment with naval units, or can we use artillery to help out with that? Personally I think the bombard ability of ironclads and frigates are quite... unimpressive. And especially since the AI has a weird fixation with coastal fortresses.

Since if we go by that rule, I might find it more feasible to simply build a city on their coast and ignore the cities around it, wipe out their inland cities, and then deal with the leftovers. Of course, that's against the "spirit" of the variant, so I'll avoid it if possible.
 
Well we'll have a bit of a vote on it first but in 'I Dream of Dromon's' they decided it was acceptable to use artillery to bombard coastal cities provided the artillery operated from transports.

Of course I only suggested it since you signed up Sima, and as it was I was worried you might consider the variant to plain ;)
 
I would say continents, although arch would make it a little easier at this level. Still I would prefer continents.

About the special rule : With bombardment of 3 the Man'O'War might suck at bombarding units. In SM01 - Byzanthines AWD the dromons with bombardment of 2 were not too successful. The hit rate was terrible and after some time it became very tedious. However we could try and if it gets too annoying we can still change it. Maybe the Man'O'War prooves me wrong and shows what a hell of unit it is.:)
 
I don't really understand the "I dream of dromonms" variant so I don't know what to say.

Edit: Now that I read better, I think that I understand it, it appears very hard. Are we able to win with a NOW and I dream of Dromons on Deity?
 
I am aware that IDOD became quite tedious at times for those involved, hence me suggesting that, rather than for the whole game, it just be in what is generally regarded as England's dominant period.

@Mirc - of course its possible! The Aggie1 teamd did it on Conquests deity and applied the bombardment rule all game and with several extra parts as well. Oh and they played an Oscillating war game while they were at it.

and besides I just suggested it, if you guys don't want to play it then we won't. It was just a 'themed' suggestion.
 
tupaclives said:
@Lord Emswerth - What exactly do you mean by 'if you like the start'? What sort of start are you thinking of?

Lord Emswerth as you expressed an interest but didn't want to commit to signing up I'll put you in as a reserve. If McLman or Lboogie13 don't want to play, or someone has to drop out then you'll get preference with regards to replacing them. Thats assumign the start is to your likeing of course ;)


WRT the start, I just don't like islands. I am not too fond of being on or too close the coast either.

As for the rest, that is OK.

 
Is it just me, or Seafaring civs will more likely start near a coast?

Edit: :hammer2: Stupid me, I forgot there's no Seafaring in Vanilla.
 
lurker's comment: My favorite vanilla civ is England, but alas, im too bad for Deity, good luck to you, tupaclives, and the rest of the gang.:cool:
 
Mirc said:
Is it just me, or Seafaring civs will more likely start near a coast?

Edit: :hammer2: Stupid me, I forgot there's no Seafaring in Vanilla.

Yes they are suppose to do so in C3C, but it is not a 100%.
 
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