Turn 105 470BC

[akots]

So, as you remember, we have sent Currency to Persia in hope that they will send us The Wheel like it has been agreed ages ago. They have not accepted Currency though. Hence, we have nothing to research but the Wheel then. Basically, it is something beyond "cold war" and very close to default of the tech deal on their behalf.

I'll hold the save open for a couple of hours and would suggest all government oficials either post here or contact me via chat or email. It is a matter of war and peace after all and we need to make a decision.

 

[Pegster]

Imo this is a declaration of war from their side, but as we are not warready we shouldn't push for a war atleast.
But build up and war them as fast as possible.

this is btw a good exampl on how useful it would have been if people ahd used the irc channel. a discussion on this would have been nice.

 

[Rik Meleet]

It is undeclared war (and C3B doesn't seem to realise it).
Step 1: cities building.
Step 2: units
Step 3: strike

Research: go for the wheel; and we'll never trade techs with them again. The bad thing is that they have the Hanging Gardens; they won't suffer as much from the non-lux deal as we do. I still believe temples, colossea and cathedrals are good (in these circumstance).

But the best is contact with the other continent. Is Khazad Dum building a galley ? edit: no it isn't. Please produce some galleys to be suicided. Meeting the others first is nearly essential ...

Edit
I'm now looking at the save. We can also go for Construction. I prefer the wheel though.

other remarks:
Zoi: Change the food / shields ratio. 4 food needed, 3 produced.
Charnel: idem (unless you find an 8th extra food)
Khazad: use plains i.s.o. coast; settler is quicker ready - but it wil riot .
Fanta will riot next turn.
I'm in favor of a temple in TF; it can then grow bigger and actually use the improved tiles

 

[akots]

The save is not being played atm due to moderator's request. UN has been informed of a possible delay.

 

[akots]

@Rik: Charnel and Zoi were supposed to swap tiles again. I'm doing it every turn for optimal growth and shields. Also, hopefully, our capital can safely grow to size 7 without rioting. We can cash-rush settler in Khazad and then go for galley at 2 shield per turn for some time before the city grows. Switching to galley without settler may be risky since we need a city up north.

We had a non-official chat with Emp and Johannes yesterday. Emp has the log and I hope he can post it. The Johannes minister confessed they are not researching and stockpiling cash to "rush immortals for the other continent" and "people do not want to spend it (cash) on harbor". But I don't trust the guy since he appears to be excruciatingly sneaky. Which is a good quality for a diplomat btw.

Market in TF would be a more efficient regulator of happiness IMO than temple. It is slightly more expensive but substantially more efficient and gives higher revenue. We can use 3MP (potential defenders) and luxury slider to regulate happiness which I hope can be enough.

 

[Matrix]

We may be glad they didn't accept it!

 

[akots]

I have kept the save open long enough, so I went beyond the starting screen but have not moved anything and exited the game.

Here is the current situation:

 

[classical_hero]

We have something that they really would not want to fight against. If they want to risk open war then they will have a big surprise. We must build up our military as quick as possible. It is a good thing that they did not accept our offer. Unfortunately all sings point to an eventual war. If what is true, then they will be expelled from the game and we go through, but first lets see what happens. If they did what we are accusing them of, then they are very silly. Hopefully it similar to the situation that happened between us and CDZ, hopefully.

 

[akots]

The C3B warrior is fortified on a mountain in our territory. This by itself is a known "cheap" PBEM trick to make your opponent declare on you to gain war happiness. Actually, a smart move because we cannot attack with our JT (which we ultimately want in order to trigger Golden Age) since chance to win is very small. If we attack with AC, we will just kill the poor suicidal guy unless the AC will take off a few points and retreat from him.

We need to decide what to do atm. Considering the ongoing investigation of possible espionage, there might be some time to discuss the matters. There are a few options:

1) we declare and try to lure warrior in the open and get some Javelins on him. Their war happiness would than mean little compared to our Golden Age benefits.

2) just wait and ask politely that the said warrior leaves our territory or relieves his fortified status. This might not work, because they might know that we are preparing for war.

3) Pay no attention and just ignore the guy though covering all tiles around him with AC so that if he moves aiming to do some serious harm, he is attacked.

There are certainly other options.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Or we can just explain we want to road and improve that area and that he is interfering with that. The Exploration treaty was about looking to the layout of the lands. We don't think being fortified on a mountain is considered exploring. So he should continue to move.
If he's waiting for a ship to pick him up, ask when the ship will arrive.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

C3B is still talking about a tech deal, so they will not take any techs from us. THe deal we aproved still is being approved by C3B.

 

[akots]

... If he's waiting for a ship to pick him up, ask when the ship will arrive.

They might say: Oh, we don't know, we have to vote on that and then we have to approve that and discuss and then build a galley in a 1-shield town for 30 turns and the town is near the northern pole, so another 30 turns to sail to destination and all that kind of bs they keep saying.

And then we find 10 galleys coming to this hill with 20 Immortals.

 

[akots]

C3B is still talking about a tech deal, so they will not take any techs from us. THe deal we aproved still is being approved by C3B.

May be they were just bluffing and they don't have The Wheel? Considering the circumstances, this is very suspicious and looks like "extension on purpose", a common bureaucratic trick. Very-very poor excuse IMO. basically this means their Demo game team is not essentially functional.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

...their Demo game team is not essentially functional.

It very hard to get anything done over there. They have to have 70% of the citizens vote on something, due tot he large team, it takes a while.

 

[RegentMan]

Will suicide galleys be considered in upcoming queues, akots?

 

[akots]

The game is not being played atm. We need to wait for certain directions on how to proceed apparently from Thunderfall and 40J. I would kindly ask the citizens to keep all the thoughts and cosiderations regarding the issue private unless Rik will post some sort of security clearance or something equivalent.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

We had a non-official chat with Emp and Johannes yesterday. Emp has the log and I hope he can post it.

Will do:
EMP finally, it does work
Johannes ": seems to.
Johannes ": nice to meet you akots.
akots: same here
akots: I don't keep the chat log
Johannes ": well, I think that emp has already bothered you too much, to make you accept my audience pledge. ;O)
akots: we better make it unofficial since it is not appropriate for us to talk
EMP
EMP I will log this akots, if you want
akots: we can offend our minister of foreign affairs
Johannes ": Well, you now already what is the MAIN question I wanna make, or not?
akots: Noble Matrix by doing this and this would be very unfortunate
akots: Nope, I have some idea but what excatly d'u want?
Johannes ": no problem. if my question is too official to be answered here, just say so.
EMP hey it's matrix's falt he lives in the netherlands ;p
akots: sure
akots: it is not our falt he's sleeping
EMP :-D sleep is for losers
akots: lol
akots: so what was the issue?
akots: did you get our letters?
Johannes ": the question: "How you expect to keep your research rate equivalent to our, without having literature and then libraries, ad which seems to be the bottleneck to be considered in any long-term tech exchange deal?"
akots: We cannot
akots: it depends on how long-term we are looking for
Johannes ": the email concerning techs I just answered emp about. The official letter, none of us received yet, I had to ask emp to send me a copy.
akots: just ask your turnplayer
akots: we cannot outbuild you with your cheap libraries
akots: but we're agricultural and we'll have more pop
akots: this might partially compensate
akots: but libraries are not needed before education to keep up with you
akots: we will be willing to trade for lit later on in the game, not now
Johannes ": do you really think you can go tgether with us in the medium age until education?
akots: we have other priorities
akots: sure, so far we've been researching even faster than you
Johannes ": ok, THAT was the answer we needed since the beggining of all it.
akots: ??
akots: So this mean ur satisfied?
EMP is everyone happy now ?
Johannes ": No.
Johannes ":
akots: Anything else I can help you with?
Johannes ": it means that NOW we have a good exponential on your reasons to not want literature.
akots: ok is that enough?
akots: SO far tech exchanges have been on even basis
Johannes ": I mean, an official position, better than all thoughts from here.
akots: we intend to keep it this way for now
akots: we also have Philo next turn and will have HBR then in 4 once you send us Wheel
akots: By this time u should already have had Construction and we would both go into Middle AGes
akots: So far, it is C3B which cannot keep up with our research pace
akots: Especially annoying is your lack of harbor so we cannot trade luxuries
akots: the said harbor has been promised to be built a long time ago
akots: at least 20 turns ago
akots: however we are not asking u about this
akots: just to keep our alliance going
akots: whereas u r asking some unclear reasoned questions
Johannes ": I can take a lok later on how long it will take to have the harbor done.
akots: lol rush it with money u saved from not researching
akots: don't want to sound rude though
Johannes ": people wanna keep it to rush in imortals for the other continent.
EMP I can't wait for that
akots: neither do me
akots: So far, apart from some occasional gingerly given techs, the alliance have brought us nothing
Johannes ": "gingerly"?
akots: =not eagerly
EMP akots likes big words
akots: lol
akots: i'm not sure if Emp discussed with you the recent issue with barbarian uprizing
akots: there are a few aspects we might want to discuss with your turnplayer
akots: which is Master of Civ iirc
EMP I was getting to that, but then SOMEONE kept asking me about that liturature
EMP :-D
Johannes ": hahahaha!
Johannes ": sorry if I take some time to answer, but I'm posting somethings in the forum.
Johannes ": specially, the letter.
akots: ok
Johannes ": but what you wanna discuss with master?
akots: bbs, just keep talking
akots: 3 mins
EMP hey jones, can you tell your president not to atack the barbs near the tobacco
EMP we got a JT comeing up there, and maybe we can "ask" some of them to be workers
Johannes ": hahaha!
Johannes ": Well, this is something to be asked to the militar minister.
Johannes ": but I'll tell him.
EMP ok, thanks
Johannes ": bu how long the JT will take to arrive?
EMP 5-6 turns
EMP the barbs may move a little
EMP
Johannes ": no worries.
akots: They should not move unless you pul a bait in NW/SE
Johannes ": But its not up to me to decide.
EMP well, will it kill you not to
Johannes ": I dont't remember now where they are, but concerning the border deal, in which area they are?
EMP it is a little under the border, in our lands
Johannes ": let's say that I, personally, would have no problem in giving you the barbs... but I would like to get the camp.
Johannes ": ok, ,then I *think* it wll be no problem.
akots: We want the camp as well
akots: can "share the plunder" to a small extent
EMP well, it depend where the camp is
EMP if it is in our land, then ours
Johannes ": no worry, I said"I" would like. personal opinion. not c3b official position.
EMP
akots: So, if you don't bait them and don't hunt them, you can get either workers or cash
akots: this is negotiable
EMP Ministers in Brasil must not be paid much
Johannes ": ok, I'll tell people.
Johannes ": unfortunatelly, I can't be completelly sure, cause I dont know right now if there is an settler coming to that area.
Johannes ": and that would be a good reason to kill them in advance.
akots: there should not be any settler aroun
Johannes ": but I think that we don't have one.
akots: since this is more or less our land according to the treaty
Johannes ": 95% certain.
Johannes ": not in there.
Johannes ": I mean, to the east
Johannes ": there is still space for a city.
Johannes ": and the barbs would LOBE to hunt that settler.
akots: nope, they won't move unless they see him
Johannes ": well, so n problem then.
akots: and he should be undefended
akots: your turnplayer should have know what and how to do
akots: just don't bait them
Johannes ": 10 barbs would not risk against one deffense unit with an settler?
Johannes ": damm AI
akots: if the unit is not on NW/Se line
akots: from their location
Johannes ": I'll send this to the forum, don't worry.
Johannes ": I think it's not our time to play now, correct?
akots: unless u already player
Johannes ": when have you sent it to us?
akots: Master already played and sent turn to CDZ
Johannes ": as far as I know, he have not attacked nothing in this turn.
Johannes ": but he is preparing to hold one attack.
akots: lol you could have baited them
Johannes ": yeah, you must say this things to us earlier!
akots: i've asked Emp to talk to you
Johannes ": when?
Johannes ": today?
EMP hm?
akots: nope, a previous turn
akots: in the forum thread
EMP hey, that was only 25 hours ago
akots: yep, game is moving fast
akots: Anything else?
EMP I am done
EMP what about you Minstier Jones
Johannes ": ops
Johannes ": one thing.
Johannes ": when are you going to send us the official text of the borders deal?
EMP at the chat
Johannes ": ok, perfect.
EMP is everyone happy and done?
Johannes ":
Johannes
akots: ok, have a good night
akots: bye
EMP see you all

 

[Hygro]

Johannes ": do you really think you can go tgether with us in the medium age until education?
akots: we have other priorities
akots: sure, so far we've been researching even faster than you
Johannes ": ok, THAT was the answer we needed since the beggining of all it.
akots: ??
akots: So this mean ur satisfied?
EMP is everyone happy now ?
Johannes ": No.
Johannes ":
akots: Anything else I can help you with?
Johannes ": it means that NOW we have a good exponential on your reasons to not want literature.

So did he mean "oh, so thats why you dont want literature, because you are outresearching us?" or more likely, did he mean "oh, you don't want literature because you want an army to crush us like suspected" ?

 

[akots]

IMO, they can be just stockpiling cash and veteran warriors for instant upgrade. This will make sure we rely on F3 and think our military is OK whereas it is not OK since they get 10 more Immortals in a single turn. Now they suspect we can be doing the same.

 

[RegentMan]

Thanks for the log, EMP. Am I the only one who doesn't buy the whole "immortals for the other continent" story?