Turn 139 - 210 AD

[Rik Meleet]

Builds that finished:

TF: horses
Ryt: galley
KD: Galley
Savannah: Pike

And C3B is sending out more galleys; in a blocking position.

 

[Rik Meleet]

And C3B is going to invade our Iron Island

 

[Rik Meleet]

Oh yeah, I nearly forgot; The save will be distributed after playing, not before.
The reason is that I got a complaint that I distributed the save before playing. It is kinda "not done" as it can be seen as "reloading".

If you need any information, screenshots or checks, please ask me; I will give any information I can obtain. After playing I will distribute the save through the mailinglist.

 

[Pegster]

The pikeman in duckpond should be moved to chrysantemium.

Can atleast one horseman be changed to pike and cash-rushed?


They need two turns from now to attack, one for landing and one for attacking whatever they are attacing first(probably crysanthemum).

 

[akots]

IMHO, the C3B galley nearby the iron island is empty but it would not hurt to block another mountain and move in a couple AC units for defense from the mainland into Duckpond. Hopefully, this is possible.

The blocking galleys have to be eliminated completely otherwise they will escape and heal in C3B ports. Since this cannot be done just because there are not enough galleys in the scouting group to attack and kill the enemy, our fleet might either retreat or unload all units and prepare for naval battle.

So far, C3B has proven themselves as cunning and clever adversary which cannot be considered as a newbie player. Obviously, the CoG strategy will not work like it has been intended. To make it through the C3B defense lines, more ships are needed and preferable a galley-healing city near the tile where the wounded eJT stands.

One request: Please a screenie of our mainland...

And suggestion to still save an attempt on CoG plan albeit it is unlikely to work in any case: We can unload a settler where the eJT stands and then retreat with galleys. Build the town next turn, unload troops there and try to advance with galleys even if this would mean a naval battle. Then, return and load the troops, rinse and repeat, just need more settlers. If we unload troops in the open, C3B will be able to view their numbers and quality but if they are unloaded in the city, the only way would be for them to know the troop number if they specifically ask CDZ to investigate the city. This still can be done but it is rather unlikely.

 

[Rik Meleet]

These are the CoMa instructions I reeceived of Rcoutme:

Rob zegt:
Ok, really quick (in case I can't make it later), pull the fleet back (move the main fleet after picking up the JT)...move the main fleet back only two squares, though.
Rob zegt:
Ferry the AC's over to Iron island and use the troops to block the mountains
Rik zegt:
2 squares ? That means 2,1 ?
Rob zegt:
yes
Rik zegt:
k
Rob zegt:
If possible, try to rush horses on iron island (the ones building), but don't wipe out the treasury doing it...
Rob zegt:
maybe switch Duck Pond to a horse
Rik zegt:
ok

Edit: Akots requested a screenie of our mainland; coming up

 

[Rik Meleet]

MAinland Screenie

 

[akots]

Another general comment: Please stop considering C3B as an inferior team which is prone to some kind of unit renaming or risky plans like CoG or other ridiculous things posted from time to time by a few citizens. It is neither confusing them nor working. We need market in TF and temple in UH while still producing settlers from Zoi and workers from other cities including those on the iron island. And our ambassador to CDZ is doing anything but negotiating with CDZ about their positive attitude towards this war from CDZ. If we continue to use GA for building more regular troops in each and every city ignoring infrastructure, this would ultimately lead to disaster and defeat.

Please also note that what to build and where is decided only by Rik and nobody else with the help of governors which has been none so far. CoMA only orders movement for units which are already available for combat, scouting and military police duty and by no means his functions pertain to build orders.

 

[Hygro]

akots, are you saying we should have our elected officials do exactly their duty, all of their duty, and have the others not give such suggestions/orders? Because that eliminates our ability to work as a team and instead works as a single player, more or less.

 

[DaveShack]

I think any citizen should be able to feel free to give advice, otherwise we have no democracy.

My comfort level has been pretty low with all the talk of easy victory. It was unreasonable to think that C3B would sit there under sanctions and knowing we would probably go after them without working on countering our likely plans.

The iron island galley could be a feint, but what if their plan is to cut off our resources? They know that we can't totally ignore it, which means that troops will be diverted. Do we have a similar threat to divert their attention?

 

[akots]

akots, are you saying we should have our elected officials do exactly their duty, all of their duty, and have the others not give such suggestions/orders? Because that eliminates our ability to work as a team and instead works as a single player, more or less.

That is what you are saying. Please don't try to change the meaning of what I have said.

 

[RegentMan]

If we rush units on iron island, they should be horses. Otherwise, first blood city-wise will go to C3B.

 

[rcoutme]

I believe that Akots suggestion of building a city on the horn is solid advice. I would caution, however, that we would probably need to begin work on a new settler (or two) in order to replace the one we use. I would also like more galleys, as it seems that our adversaries are building a lot of those.

I still believe that we can easily allow the movement of the AC's to iron island. They were left in Charnel for exactly that purpose. I agree with Akots 'feelings', 'assessment', whatever you wish to call it: that the galley is likely empty (although I would love to know the route that they took to get it there (and where in hell it took 1 hp of damage), however, better safe than sorry.

As for builds, although I have made suggestions to Rik (and will continue to do so...seeing as how I am expected to conduct a war) I have never insisted on any builds or worker orders. I have only ever suggested. The final say on movement of units was mine, the final say on builds/workers/city spots has always been Rik's.

ONE MORE THING: Rik, if you have not played the turn yet, move the main fleet back only one square. It seems that C3B likes to be two away from our SC fleet and moving only 1 back might just put those units within striking distance if C3B follows us south.

YET STILL ANOTHER: I recommend that you drop the settler onto the shielded grass square SE of the JT. If we choose to not build the city, we can always pick him up again. If we choose to build the city, we can do so immediately next turn. If you do drop him, make sure that you drop a pike with him (just in case C3B goes to take a look, it will look much more believable).

The reason for that particular spot for the city is that it would cut down our ship movement costs around the horn (as opposed to the spot where the JT is).

 

[akots]

Sure, the location you suggested is much better!

And the settler better be covered with a unit, may be even rediled JT to continue the disguise since otherwise they can just capture our poor settler by unloading a unit from they galley. However, IMHO, their galleys are also empty since they surely would not be willing to risk the units in the galleys while anticipating a possibility of naval combat.

 

[Hygro]

That is what you are saying. Please don't try to change the meaning of what I have said.

I'm glad I am wrong. It didn't seem consistent with how you are. Care to clarify your intentions? (--I'm referring to when you started with "please note")

 

[Ratatomik]

I agree with the COMA plan with the settler . But i must ask you a question . Do we have a master plan for the war or we just try to win this war turn by turn?

I think that we should think about all invasion possibilities. Its not a good idea to plan with 'feeling'. Maybe the galley above Chrysanthemium is empty , maybe not. But if this galley is full of raging unit ? How high is the threat and wath they can/cannot do.

For by my (is this a correct sentence?) i think this galley , even if its full or not , is not a large threat and we can easily master the situation with the citys around , but if they come more galley , we are in deep **** . i dont think we can support a 2 fronts war with the actual production. If my eyes good , this iron source is our only one?

 

[Pegster]

We have a plan, but it seems like C3B might have sn idea about what is coming, so that plan might be changed.

I'll try to find a link to the City of God plan.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106918
not the best one but it should give a good overview of the basic points of the plan. Too tired to look more now

and yes that source of Iron is our only one, so it must be defended.

 

[akots]

@Hygro: Playing the turn is a big job. Have you recently looked at our saves? There are very many units to move, worker jobs, routine micromanagement, lots of military police shuffling, complicated budget, and a few other things apart from saying: "The citizens want units for we are going to kill C3B". This game becomes more and more complicated every turn with more and more factors coming to play at the scene. Including diplomacy, military planning, immediate threats and so on. Yet it all comes to a single person who has to grasp the whole picture and who is under considerable pressure both with time and resposibility. This person has all rights to decide what to build and where and in my case, I was straightforward enough to repel a few attempts and futile advices which were mostly due to insufficient understanding of the game by the citizens. Rik seems to be somewhat more political and polite and abstains from open criticism of points of views of other citizens considering them as "will of the citizens". Alas, I'd like to spare him from watching the collapse of our powers due to malignant mistakes imposed by strict follow-up of this "will of the people". It is both painful and frustrating to put so much effort and time in this game yet it all comes to defeat.

Hence, the turnplayer is not only allowed but should be encouraged to make the key decision while listening to the "will of the people" but doing like he feels to do since he is the most knowledgeable person due the closest encounter with our in-game problems. Some critical points of doubt can be certainly polled. But this also means responsibility which is a heavy burden on the shoulders of the turnplayer. In the end, all team shares this responsibility but would you personally like to share the responsibility of loss?

Edited: The mechanism IMHO, might be rather simple:
1) Turnplayer makes decisions and posts them in the turn thread while stricly following the orders of CoMA.
2) If enough citizens disagree, the turnplayer might either accept the alternative point of view or don't accept it.
3) If the citizens still insist and the turnplayer does not give up, the citizens are free to start discussion and open the poll on the matters and then the results of the poll are mandatory be it for good or bad after all parties have spoken.

This and only this would be the true democratic and at the same time efficient mechanism of functioning of the government. Especially during war times. Just posting in the thread something like "I want horsemen cash-rushed this turn on the Iron Island to defend against possible C3B landing" is not enough and should not be enough for the turnplayer to make the decision if he disagrees with it and sees this as an unnecessary waste of cash and resources. The turnplayer is then free to ignore the opinion of the citizens and proceed according to the plan posting the reasons for denying the opinion. If the citizen further disagrees then the poll procedure can start.

If ambassador fails to negotiate with some neighboring team and neglects his duties, CoIA or CoFA are free to dismiss him and appoint another temporary ambassador while opening elections. But to me it seems more fair if the ambassador retires voluntarily publicly acknowledging his inability to maintain desired relationships with his target team.

That is my personal opinion and I'm open as always to listen to alternative points of view on the matters.

 

[Hygro]

that makes sense and is fair enough

 

[Provolution]

Akots

No need to start a witchhunt on the CDZ ambassador, me. I have been in a good dialogue with them, and they are as risk averse as some of our more safeguarding citizens.
If we do not make some solid military victories, we would fail in mustering CDZ support.