Turn 163 - 470 AD

[Donovan Zoi]

I have the save in my grubby little mitts and will be playing it this morning. Look for an update within two hours of this post.

 

[Cheetah]

I can't wait! Bring it on!

 

[Ankka]

Yeah, hurry!

And it's over 2 hours already.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Don't forget screenshots!

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Sorry for the delay and the lack of screenshots. I have downloaded a capture program, but the files are waaay to large. So now I have to figure out how to condense those files, something that was quite easy when I was using GIMP on my old computer. However, setting it up for XP is proving to be a different story. It's part of the reason this report is so late. Please continue to be patient, although I am thinking of networking my old computer for the time being, but that is another can of worms entirely...........

470 AD was a very eventful year on several counts. Let me give you the rundown:

* Our year started with an offer from CGN for the city of Saugus, which is right at the core of their mainland and a stone's throw from their capital of Arhus. Cheetah, can you find out what may be going on here? I sent the offer back unaccepted until we can get more details.

* We also received Invention from Apolyton(as promised) and are now considered by our Science Advisor as "technologically advanced!" I sent back 80 gold to Apolyton, only because our payment got lost in the mail last turn(ok, I forgot to send it.....) We are still at a 40gpt agreement with Poly,

* Upon looking at the map, I noticed that GCA now has a new city in the canal region, although it is not placed to take advantage of the canal opportunity. It is called Alpha and has me concerned about the future of GCA in the West. The city also has walls already, which means that I will have to consult the last save to see if the city was there at that time. Otherwise, we have a problem.

* The new Markets in Shen Ling and Jiang Mapi are finally complete! And they have already added 20gpt to our coffers. This is with Jiang Mapi still at Size 5, so once I join a worker or two there, this number should increase significantly.

* We are about two turns from completion of tile improvements around the city of Xin Yun Feng. Once these are finished, I will join 5 workers there to raise this city to Size 6. After that, we will need to discuss the benefits of rushing a Courthouse here before beginning the Forbidden Palace. We may need to....we may not.

In other news, a Harbor was started on the island, a Market was started in Xiang Zhou, and Ju Yaosai was given all mined Hills so that it could complete a Market in 10 turns(instead of 17). Zhi Gang will complete a Market in 7 turns and Yun Quiling will complete a Granary in 10 turns(or less, since it due to grow in 5 turns).

Please post any questions or concerns, and please continue to have patience regarding the screenshot situation. I am almost there.

 

[Cheetah]

Good turn DZ. Until we get the screenshots, you think you could mail us the save?

I have contacted miccofl, and are waiting for a reply. Will inform you as soon as I have something.

 

[Ankka]

Interesting things... we are being gifted a city? And GCA has a new one? I'm getting suspicious here...

20gpt on two markets? whoa! I never new they affacted that much!

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I don't think we should acsept the city soon after that standoff at the UN about those types of things.

 

[deshelbr]

Prez,

If you and I can figure out a way to send me the screenshots you take, I'll resize them and add any notes that you need and get them back to you. I'm assuming that e-mail won't work because of size, but maybe we can zip and ftp them.

That or you could just send me notes on what you wanted and I could try to post the full synopsis of the turn with pics. But I'm not sure I want to do all that every couple of days.

In the mean time, forward us the save.

And just to clarify, Webringen had the poorly placed city of Alpha in the canal region last turn. They must have gifted it to GCA this turn.

Thanks,
-Deshelbr

 

[Hygro]

can't you open the screenshots with paint and then save them as jpegs?

 

[Cheetah]

Update from CGN:

They did not offer us a city!

The city was acctualy built during that turn, and no diplo screen was open with us after it was constructed.

It appears to be a bug causing unintentional offerings of cities.

In addition, OUR diplo screen pops up every time CGN loads the game, without offering anything.

To quote miccofl:
this game has more bugs than a dumpster

 

[Donovan Zoi]

The save was sent over three hours ago, but admittedly it was sent with no subject heading. However, the msdgATcivfanaticsDOTcom should tip you off.

So, check your emails again, everyone. The save is there. If it isn't then you either need to submit or correct your address in this thread

 

[Cheetah]

I have the save.

 

[deshelbr]

Got a few questions . . .

Shen Ling and Jiang Mapi are done with the Markets, what are they building now? I would assume Riders.

For the workers that aren't going to be joining cities, what areas are they going to focus on developing? Improving Jiang Mapi and other core cities or connecting and developing the outskirts of the nation?

What is the strategy with the Granary in Yun Quiling? Are we turning one of our few Barrack Towns into a worker factory?

If Apolyton is selling us Education, Astronomy, and Navigation, and we are researching Printing Press for Democracy, what is our strategy for getting Gunpowder for those Musketmen?

Is the island Harbor being built on the northern (Daoyu Leisheng) or southern (Jiangmianbao Chengshi) city?

Are we going to use that Horseman to take out the Barbarian Camp in the south soon? Or are we just leaving that there.

Why would Webringen have given Alpha to Gamecatcher? Why is the city placed so badly? Can Gamecatcher possible have enough troops to be qualified as the better defender of the city? Are they even trying to hold the city.

Where are we planning on sending that settler being build in Kuangbiao Haian?

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally posted by deshelbr
Got a few questions . . .

Shen Ling and Jiang Mapi are done with the Markets, what are they building now? I would assume Riders.

Shen Ling is building a Rider(8 turns) and Jiang Mapi is building Barracks(3 turns). Although I wouldn't mind building a Temple in our capital to allow another population point. And yes, Shen Ling already has Barracks.

Originally posted by deshelbr
For the workers that aren't going to be joining cities, what areas are they going to focus on developing? Improving Jiang Mapi and other core cities or connecting and developing the outskirts of the nation?

Actually, all cities that would currently receive workers have enough improved tiles to warrant being joined. In other words, no more development is currently needed for several cities: Shen Ling, Jiang Mapi, Zhi Gang. I have workers improving one more hill in Ju Yaosai, and have a hill or two to mine around Cha Ching before these can "max out."

My goal here is to not improve cities more than is immediately needed, and use workers to join cities that have improved tiles not in use.

My "wish list" for the future includes:

* Irrigating the two Flood Plains in Yun Qiuling
* Beginning a road network for our future cities, both in the North and Southeast, based on this proposal.
* Aggressive irrigation of 1-2 grassland cities south of Xin Yun Feng, so that we have a worker/settler factory in the southeast(this should keep our core cities large and productive).

Originally posted by deshelbr
What is the strategy with the Granary in Yun Quiling? Are we turning one of our few Barrack Towns into a worker factory?

Yes, we are and we should. With a Granary, Flood Plains, and the production we can get from Yun Qiuling, it is quite possible for us to maintain a two-turn worker cycle without losing population. We need to replenish those joined workers from somewhere and this is our best candidate. Kuangbaio Haian is being groomed to be another worker provider.

Keep in mind the importance of joining workers now. It exponentially increases the benefits to our nation by utilizing valuable tiles that are currently going to waste. Not to mention the temporary boost in gpt due to less unit support. YQ and KH are solutions so that the loss of workers isn't permanent.

Originally posted by deshelbr
If Apolyton is selling us Education, Astronomy, and Navigation, and we are researching Printing Press for Democracy, what is our strategy for getting Gunpowder for those Musketmen?

Another good question. The thing about Gunpowder right now is that it is desparately needed by GWT, so the idea is to have as few nations as possible possess this tech until GWT discovers it themselves. The more nations that possess a tech, the cheaper it becomes for those who do not have it.

That said, I have had informal talks about this issue with Apolyton, who assure us that they don't have the tech either and will also not receive it until GWT discovers it. Incidentally, CGN only discovered it a turn or two ago.

While we have an alliance agreement with Apolyton about techs that they directly research, nothing is etched in stone about our claim to techs they receive from other nations. I have discussed this dilemma only briefly with Consul Trip of Poly and it was determined that we would need to pony up a bit more gpt to ensure total tech parity. I can revisit this matter next time I stop by their Embassy.

Originally posted by deshelbr
Is the island Harbor being built on the northern (Daoyu Leisheng) or southern (Jiangmianbao Chengshi) city?

In Chengshi, which has slightly better production. The island will definitely be a work in progress, and is not high on the list of priorities for the moment. This will change once we get closer to Navigation.

Originally posted by deshelbr
Are we going to use that Horseman to take out the Barbarian Camp in the south soon? Or are we just leaving that there.

I have wrestled with that, and so far have been comfortable with having our Horseman waiting to ambush any barb that emerges from the camp. My only worry in taking it is that our Horseman could end up a sitting duck for a fortiifed horse waiting in camp.

Then again, this camp also produces galleys, so perhaps it should be removed. I will look into sending one of our sentries MIs to take on the task, as I would hate to lose a future Rider over this small problem.

Originally posted by deshelbr
Why would Webringen have given Alpha to Gamecatcher? Why is the city placed so badly? Can Gamecatcher possible have enough troops to be qualified as the better defender of the city? Are they even trying to hold the city.

I honestly don't know the answer to this one. All I can say is that both teams have UUs based on the Knight, so GCA is definitely useful to GWT's cause. Also, CGN transported all their troops from that region so the area may be secure. This is only my speculation, of course.

Originally posted by deshelbr
Where are we planning on sending that settler being build in Kuangbiao Haian?

I would like to send that Settler to one of the southeast grassland cities I previouly mentioned. Doing this will allow us to expand much more quickly down there.

<><><><><><><>

Thanks for your interest in the progress of our nation, deshelbr. If you have any follow-up questions, please don't hesitate to respond.

 

[deshelbr]

My only follow-up questions would be:

What is DaveShack's opinion on the Settler Location?

What is CivGeneral's opinion on the Barbarian Camp to the south?

How does Zarn and Emp. Napolean feel about this Tech Non-Parity for traded (not researched) techs and how and when do they see us getting Gunpowder?

 

[DaveShack]

Originally posted by deshelbr
My only follow-up questions would be:

What is DaveShack's opinion on the Settler Location?

I have a plan to find time to come up with a plan...

Do y'all tend to poll things here, or rely mostly on input during discussions? I'm not sure how good an idea it is to build the FP so close, it looks like we're conceding slowly by claiming so small an area for two productive cores. Also I lean towards going ahead and building towns to fill the area ahead of the FP, even if they aren't productive, so there is no delay having them come online when the FP does complete. Plus, treaty or no the smart thing for any opponent is to go claim the land that we don't settle.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Deshelber,
I feel that this new tech plan is ok. It will help us soon with the crossing of the ocean in case of war. My only qualm is that we need better units to send over there. That is why I want us to get military tridition ASAP. I think we can also get Gunpowder from CGN when and if we go to war. Could somone please tell me if CGN as advanced any farther on the path to military tridition.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally posted by DaveShack


I have a plan to find time to come up with a plan...

Do y'all tend to poll things here, or rely mostly on input during discussions? I'm not sure how good an idea it is to build the FP so close, it looks like we're conceding slowly by claiming so small an area for two productive cores.

Dave, we are by far the weakest nation left in the game besides GCA, and therefore have alot of catching up to do. My guess is that we are the last of the four large nations to have a Forbidden Palace in place.

In all honesty, I believe we would be conceding if we were to forgo building the FP during this time in the hopes of taking land from a larger nation. The FP in Xin Yun Feng is not only practical, but realistic as well.

Right now, Xin Yun Feng is over 50% corrupt. Therefore it stands to reason that all the cities beyond it would have even more corruption. Besides, too much work has been put into building up this city to turn back now.

Originally posted by DaveShack
Also I lean towards going ahead and building towns to fill the area ahead of the FP, even if they aren't productive, so there is no delay having them come online when the FP does complete. Plus, treaty or no the smart thing for any opponent is to go claim the land that we don't settle.

I agree with this to some extent, but would like to see all growth in that region come from 1-2 newly placed grassland cities. Check out E4 and E2 in this thread. With some quick irrigation, these cities can grow quickly enough to support constant workers/settlers, and once the FP is built, Xin Yun Feng has enough grassland and production to quickly make up the difference.

Also, Apolyton is choosing to honor our land agreement, so I don't see the need to worry at this time. I would rather take that chance than chisel away at our productive core to found cities that have no immediate benefit to us. So let's start off with the two grassland sites and go from there.

What do you think?

 

[Ankka]

Well, I think DZ's talk sounds ok... But we shouldn't stop expanding. We should be IMHO building a settler again after some time to settle a new town, or otherwise we have only a small productive core. We could have a little larger productive core + a few not that good cities.