Turn 50 something Longswords

[MasterMishi]

Small Earth Multiplayer (when I host conts it almost always generates earth!)
No barbs, ruins, CS

Germany start position (ottomans) I went 4 city Landed Elite, then workes, libraries. Earth map resources are always very sparse by default (changing settings has no effect). Only iron is Algeria. I settled St. Petersburg, Gibraltar and Italy and hoped I could buy the iron tile. Not enough money. France had Ghana start and settled the iron with 2nd city.

I scouted Paris by turn 15 or so. The base tile (hills, plains, river )was 4 food 2 hammers 4 gold. I was unsure if this was possible this early. It wasnt showing a lux on the mouse over. I asked him how it is possible and he said monarchy. I was suspicious but not sure if it was a cheat.

He DoWed me and parked sword outside gibraltar. Upgraded Longs turn 55. I chopped spears and an archer, defended Gibraltar, but he sailed across the Med and attacked my other city with 2 longs. My terrain was poor and I lost it. I conceded. I asked if it was a cheat and he said no. He claimed he had longs before 55.

I tested it and it is possible to get longs early 50's

Though still not sure about the base tile. 4 gold doesnt seem possible to me. It was too early for monarchy. Maybe it was a lux and it didnt show up on mouse over.

Anyway rant aside here is the method for turn 50ish longs tested with France for early monarchy:

Build: Scout, Worker, Granary, Library, NC, Settler, Swords, Longs (or workshop in there)
Tech: Pottery, Writing, Mining, Bronze, Iron, Metal, Steel
Policy: Trad, Legalism, Monarchy, Liberty, free worker - cant remember name,

I had 450 gold turn 52 and upgraded 4 swords to longs.

MM

 

[Smote]

If turn count is of primary concern, you can accelerate it by building great library instead of settlers. can maybe get turn 42-44 longswords, albeit not many

Purchased workers from ruins gold and CS discoveries can accelerate Steel invention time farther, though there will be no gold for upgrades. If AIs are in the game, luxury sales can give enough gold for upgrades.

Monarchy does indeed improve the cities base tile. It frequently is selected around turn 30 by France, or turn 19 if they take it over LE for some reason. This can be accelerated down to around 25/13 with a culture ruin.

 

[Enfeeble]

you can have long swords by turn 35-41 (35 if ure production is good) 41 if it sucks, i had a screen shot but it didn't save for some reason.

guess ill have to redo game and retake.

 

[Enfeeble]

1 turn off and forgot to cap iron but u can get that piture

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198030721171/screenshots/

 

[Smote]

Ha, metal casting GL + Steel Meritocracy. Even more all-in!

 

[Antarion]

1 lonely longsword will fall to 2 warrios + 2 archers

 

[Smote]

Need a city too. i think I could beat 2 warriors+2archers on open ground with a longsword. Itd be a slaughter/full heal fest Stay fortified until 6 xp while archers shoot you, then attack at end of turn, then get shot a little more and full heal after being shot on the next turn. Then attack again and kill a 2nd unit, and now its 1v2. The attacks likely wouldnt do more than 2 damage to the LS, and the archer shots would never do more than 1, which leaves a lot of wiggle room.

 

[MasterMishi]

its not just get to steel the earliest, its about getting a dominant army early and surprising your neighbours with a decisive attack.

this strat is good fallback if you get outsettled and have no great 2nd city site.

played small conts other day, no barbs, ruins, cs on. On my cont was greece, france, china, i was france also. got outsettled by france (i went trad) and greece. So i went NC then iron, only 2 (iron edit) in cap, built 3 archers a spear and 2 swords, upgraded to longs mid 50s, then spammed spears and archers and steamrolled france, annexed 1 france city built courthouse, lucky despite their 3 city rex they had no iron. Then rolled greece, they had 2 iron but not longs. Then rolled china with musketeers. Then launched epic invasion on another france on other cont with rifles and cannons. Totally unexpected i crushed them even though they had tech parity, i had 2x army. Then attacked rome, who were now ready for me but again 1/2 my army. I had their main prod city down to 2 hp when i hit -10 unhappy, (should have razed a french city) and rome countered and i lost many units and they held me off. I retreated for reinforcements and got arty, but they also had arty 2 turns after. If i had taken the roman city the game would have been mine. It was now stalemate.

I beelined musketteers after steel, then cannon, then rifle then arty.
Had cap, plus french city annexed with courthouse, rest was puppets.

Its a good option in mp when you see your neighbour out rex you. Worst case scenario it would have gained me a puppet on that good 2nd city site.

MM

 

[Smote]

sds like a fun game

personally im a big fan of horse rushes to counter a fast expander

 

[Antarion]

Need a city too. i think I could beat 2 warriors+2archers on open ground with a longsword. Itd be a slaughter/full heal fest Stay fortified until 6 xp while archers shoot you, then attack at end of turn, then get shot a little more and full heal after being shot on the next turn. Then attack again and kill a 2nd unit, and now its 1v2. The attacks likely wouldnt do more than 2 damage to the LS, and the archer shots would never do more than 1, which leaves a lot of wiggle room.

archers with promotion vs not fortified LS on open ground can do 3 damage (hence i did 4 damage with indien elephants to longswords!).


the whole point about this is, if someone really tries to outtech you this way shown above, u should claim the land and get mass of weaker units which will still outperform one super unit. longswords are nice but not that good as most ppl think they are. as you wrote above its like an "ALL IN". and noone likes all in strats who really tries to develop some serious strategies.

 

[Antarion]

its not just get to steel the earliest, its about getting a dominant army early and surprising your neighbours with a decisive attack.

this strat is good fallback if you get outsettled and have no great 2nd city site.

played small conts other day, no barbs, ruins, cs on. On my cont was greece, france, china, i was france also. got outsettled by france (i went trad) and greece. So i went NC then iron, only 2 (iron edit) in cap, built 3 archers a spear and 2 swords, upgraded to longs mid 50s, then spammed spears and archers and steamrolled france, annexed 1 france city built courthouse, lucky despite their 3 city rex they had no iron. Then rolled greece, they had 2 iron but not longs. Then rolled china with musketeers. Then launched epic invasion on another france on other cont with rifles and cannons. Totally unexpected i crushed them even though they had tech parity, i had 2x army. Then attacked rome, who were now ready for me but again 1/2 my army. I had their main prod city down to 2 hp when i hit -10 unhappy, (should have razed a french city) and rome countered and i lost many units and they held me off. I retreated for reinforcements and got arty, but they also had arty 2 turns after. If i had taken the roman city the game would have been mine. It was now stalemate.

I beelined musketteers after steel, then cannon, then rifle then arty.
Had cap, plus french city annexed with courthouse, rest was puppets.

Its a good option in mp when you see your neighbour out rex you. Worst case scenario it would have gained me a puppet on that good 2nd city site.

MM

sorry i cant imagine any match up where one city is enough. if i go for tradition then before i build any building i will SETTLE a high production (aka know as sheep farm or gem/gold/silver mine) 2nd city ( this gives you nearly twice as much units as 1 city)

 

[Tabarnak]

archers with promotion vs not fortified LS on open ground can do 3 damage (hence i did 4 damage with indien elephants to longswords!).


the whole point about this is, if someone really tries to outtech you this way shown above, u should claim the land and get mass of weaker units which will still outperform one super unit. longswords are nice but not that good as most ppl think they are. as you wrote above its like an "ALL IN". and noone likes all in strats who really tries to develop some serious strategies.

Yes, longswordmen are very strong when they are at least 3 or more, when you don't have such units yourself. I like to build a wall, wait for first attack then try to kill them with 2 flanked horses. But sometimes i don't have the time to set this kind(and efficient) defense if opponent get longswordmen before turn 60.

 

[Antarion]

normally it should be possible to get enough defense up, especially if you chop some woods for rushed archers/walls/chariots/war elephants. and as u told us ofc get fortified melee units in rough terrain, try to chop all forest next to the enemy, so he gets less defense bonus and your range has better chances of doing great damage, and if your really lucky abuse rivers.

 

[Smote]

Sometimes no such location exists, and the 2nd city is a liability (might die to rush while first city is still producing buildings- expansions don't get the +2-3 power of capital and it usually means troops must be spread thinner) It depends on land and spawn proximity and location availability. In a tight corner, an optimized 1city strategy has to do. The heroic epic gives 1city rushes a big boost.

 

[Gruminmor]

Played a game tonight: 6 player, Pangaea, Prince difficulty. Took Japan and rushed a small Samuria army. Managed to get Steel on turn 38, and one Samurai and one swordsman by turn 44(only 2 iron ). Got to my first opponents 2nd city by turn 47 and took his Capital by turn 60. And that was with no huts and moving my settler on the first turn to sit on a gold mine. This is by far the quickest ive managed to tech Steel, but i have managed to pull out Samurai faster.

Build: Scout, monument, granary, libary, NC, settler.
Tech: same as OP
Policy: Liberty, free worker and free GP - which was a great scientist.

Sadly, as i circled my 2nd opponents Capital on turn 81 the game froze, as it almost always seem to happen. But still a great success!

 

[Tabarnak]

That's the main problem of an early LS rush.

1st, you need money. You have to upgrade. You need 110+75=185 gold for a single LS. I rarely get over 300 gold before turn 40. But i often have time to upgrade 3 swords(225 gold).

But 1 single LS can do a lot of damage. The problem is you have to be successful very fast because Landed Elite + 4 cities will eclipse every other strategies post turn 55(if correctly done).

A fortified warrior(50%) on a forested hill can survive first LS's attack.

@Gruminmor : can't see images.

 

[Antarion]

japan is smth totally different. their main aim is to get at first iron and steel to really take advantage of thier samurais, but how often do i see french ppl trying a longsword rush and fail badly.

 

[Gruminmor]

While I agree Landed Elite backed with several cities is a better long term stratergy, it all depends on the land, and on your neighbours. And when I sent my small but effective army over to my enemy, I already knew where his troops were. And I knew what he was planning(he was building the pyramids and scouting my 2nd enemies lands - all 3 of us were ridiculously close to one another) if I hadn't rofl-stomped him early he woulda out produced me chop chop. But definatly the most important thing here is the element of surprise. Most ppl push for early expansion, which inflates their score, while using this stratergy keeps your points low and ppl tend to overlook you cause of this.

And as you stated getting the needed funds to rush/upgrade is pretty tight, especially if you don't find any money ruins or don't meet enough CS. But you can make it by plundering the enemies tiles, which is what I did in order to get my 2nd samurai.

But even with all this, I'm still new to MP Civ. And always push for new and interesting strategies to wipe out my opponents.

Ps. I'll fix my pics later, can't do it now because I'm supposed to be working.

 

[MadDjinn]

counter to any LS rush:

use archers only. Let the city take the hits and have 4 (preferably, more if you can) archers in/behind it. focus fire and bye bye LS one at a time. Never let them insta-heal. chase them down once they start running. LSs are a long hard build, so there's plenty of time once you clear the upgraded ones.

A melee unit or two doesn't hurt (horsemen is best for hit and run) but unnecessary.