Turning off science victory

[MiniatureDeathRobot]

Does anyone else really hate science victory? I recently won my first-ever game on Deity, and man SV does really weird things to the late game. I was playing as the Ottomans, going for a domination victory, but late in the game I completely overhauled my strategy around the fact that England was beating me in the space race. While at first I thought I'd just capture their capital and negotiate a peace to go capture other civs capitals, I wound up systematically nuking most if not all English cities with spaceports, just to stop the SV. Also, realizing that completely eliminating the English might take awhile, I got going on my own space race projects, and wound up winning the space race when I'd barely set foot on one of the map's two major landmasses.

I went for the merciless nuking strategy because in the past I'd tried to rely on spies to stop SVs, but IME the AIs tend to build multiple spaceports, and if I do pillage the spaceport it gets repaired quickly. Sometimes, I even see freshly-started space race projects set to complete in less time than a spy mission takes. I've seen claims about AIs failing to repair pillaged spaceports, but this has not been my experience at all—IDK if it's the AI mods I use, or the core game's AI has gotten better over time. Map size might also be a factor here—I usually play on standard or larger maps, and can imagine relying on spies working better if you play on a small or tiny map.

Edit: so, uh, back to the thread's title, how do people feel about playing with SV off? Does it make a better game? Or just drag out the endgame too much?

 

[Basajaun]

As far as I know, turning a certain victory condition off wont stop the AI trying to chase it. I turn off religious victory many times, but AI keeps throwing missionaries and apostles around, so I would guess it shouldnt make the experience any different, other than stopping a couple of civs that do chase SV and have bonuses that benefit it.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

For me it's the dullest victory as it requires the least engagement with the rest of the map. It feels like you can just sit in a corner and play with rockets as long as you can defend yourself.

 

[Basajaun]

For me it's the dullest victory as it requires the least engagement with the rest of the map. It feels like you can just sit in a corner and play with rockets as long as you can defend yourself.

Well thats the point. In any case, unless you already play in deity, you can try and raise the difficulty you play in. AI will definitely put pressure, be it in the form of getting ahead of you, or screwing your spaceports and IZ with spies. If you play very small maps too, theres usually not enough people to stop a science victory effectively so it feels a bit more passive.

 

[sdtum21]

For me it's the dullest victory as it requires the least engagement with the rest of the map. It feels like you can just sit in a corner and play with rockets as long as you can defend yourself.

This is unironically my favourite way to play,

 

[criZp]

Of course. Who actually wants to interact with civ 6 AI.

 

[MiniatureDeathRobot]

Well thats the point. In any case, unless you already play in deity, you can try and raise the difficulty you play in. AI will definitely put pressure, be it in the form of getting ahead of you, or screwing your spaceports and IZ with spies. If you play very small maps too, theres usually not enough people to stop a science victory effectively so it feels a bit more passive.

I find the problem is an issue playing single-player on large maps too. The AIs don't gang up on whoever leads SV properly.

 

[Equilin]

For me it's the dullest victory as it requires the least engagement with the rest of the map. It feels like you can just sit in a corner and play with rockets as long as you can defend yourself.

I am of the opposite opinion for the same reason. Specifically because it does not require engaging with the rest of the map (read: exploiting the brainless AI to oblivion) is what makes it fun and awesome, the only challenge is yourself. There is a reason why SV speed is generally a good measure of civ player skill here.

 

[Basajaun]

I find the problem is an issue playing single-player on large maps too. The AIs don't gang up on whoever leads SV properly.

It is true that once I can build spaceports, SV is a matter of time, at least for me too. It is true as well that I build 3 or 4 spaceports, and each of them has at least 1 spy defending it, spies who have been delivering a bit of chaos for some turns before that, and might have a promotion or two to help with counterspy.
But if I am not on top of it, they will sabotage my IZ and spaceports left and right. Which maybe translates to; you win, but 50 turns later.
In any case, that point usually is so far into the game that unless Ive had a really bad start, I have a healthy enough economy to rush the projects with builders, or buy a new spaceport in another city with moksha or reyna, so all spies would have to be ganged up on me to really stop it.
And AI might get pissed and denounce you, but considering you have been amassing gold, and your armies are intact, and fully upgraded to the era, nobody dares to get too close. It has to be considered as well, that maybe the AIs are using those spies to boost their own victory, or are performing other operations to support their economy, culture, or whatever because the machine considers it a higher priority (which could perhaps need to be revised). Eliminating governors or performing hostie/defensive loyalty operations etc.
For me, the challenge of SV is actually reaching it before diplomatic, or culture win. With Pingala up, in epic speed its around 35 turns to build a spaceport on a well developed city, usually the capital, 75 light years travel, and about 5 turns per boosting project. So minimun 50 turns if I have really productive cities all with spaceports and spies eliminating sabotagers left and right, max 80-100 turns if its a bit sloppier.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I am of the opposite opinion for the same reason. Specifically because it does not require engaging with the rest of the map (read: exploiting the brainless AI to oblivion) is what makes it fun and awesome, the only challenge is yourself. There is a reason why SV speed is generally a good measure of civ player skill here.

That's fair enough if you like speed running and just challenging yourself. For me its about creating a story and I'm not really interested in playing the most optimal or being the best I'm just looking for an immersive experience.

 

[universecreep]

I'd never thought to turn off the SV. I always turn off the religious victory option since I couldn't be bothered to play the spam game.

Doing this my force me to play a different game since I usually default to SV when I play.

Intriguing proposal.

 

[japanesesamurai]

Just keep nuking spaceports. No need to nuke the cities.
While nuking everything to oblivion, keep conquering other civ’s capitals. And raze their other cities.
Also, if you can’t reach a spaceport with a nuke, use a settler to build a temp city closer to the destination. There should be plenty of space because you pretty much razed everyting to the ground

 

[bengalryan9]

I also wish they'd do something more interesting with SV.

I think running all of these projects should come with some steep infrastructure requirements. I find it hard to believe you could launch a mission to the moon from a city without power, for example. Requiring you to squeeze out a bunch of electricity in your cities with spaceports - either through strategic resources or renewable energy - could make for a more engaging late game as you try to meet these requirements.

 

[AsH2]

..
I find it hard to believe you could launch a mission to the moon from a city without power, for example.
..

Just chop in a huge bonfire.

 

[japanesesamurai]

I also think science victory in V was way cooler.