Turnplay Log

[PrinceMyshkin]

That's a good question and you may be right. I just checked the save and we are building 7 colosseums now. Unfortunately, all seven have shields already whipped into them. Since these are all near our core, it might be a good idea to switch these to markets first? Only our two slow growing island cities still need to build cathedrals. 26 towns are building universities, now.

The good news is we will be receiving replaceable parts on the next turn, so we could be done railing in about 4 turns and then use our workers to whip the remaining universities en masse. We should also get corporation by then with more gold coming from the Babes and then get a nice boost with stock exchanges in our big three cities.

A diplo win is unlikely in this game. Team Free and Team Babe would be a candidate now and Saber and the Council report they are working towards resisting Free. Still, if the Babes fail to make peace, there is the possibility Saber and Council would vote for Free. Getting the culture vic as fast as possible might be the best way to stop it.

 

[RFHolloway]

Markets will be good if we aim to be running at 10% sci or thereabouts - will also help with the whip unhappiness of course. In 100k you go through a stage of whipping like fun - then hoping the culture gets you to the finish line before the cash runs out due to maintainance!

One other thing to check - what does the economy look like in republic? given we are religious we could always switch and switch back once we start producing military. Normally the benefit is pretty marginal (since anarchy cuts the production of culture in half - switch and switch back costs a turn)

Just wanted to say - nothing should be taken as criticism, just offering a few ideas so you don't feel like you're doing this all on your own.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

The Babes send us 73 gold and replaceable parts and will deliver 200+ gold next turn. We have one source of rubber on our one tile island, Rutupiae. Nobody could take the island till marines, but naval bombardment could cut off our source by destroying the harbor. The Babes have four souces of rubber, thouh. Two in their homelands and two on their extra islands. The Council has no rubber connected and none appears on the map we can see. Team Saber has rubber, but no source is visible on the map we see. Team Free has three sources of rubber visible, one in their capital's radius and two on their extra islands. Team Free has now become average to us in power, while Saber and Council remain weak. Graceland drops to 4th in F11 and our Palace expands again.

In production this turn:

DSOTM=>bank-courthouse in 3
Ring of Fire=>worker-university in 67
Stone Pony=>university-worker in 10
Castle Donnington=>worker-university in 200
Altamont Raceway=>cathedral-library in 80

Whip It! would waste shields switching to a marketplace, so whips a colosseum for one pop. Nutbush City whips a marketplace for 1 pop. and The Watchtower whips a marketplace for 4 pop. instead of a colosseum for 5 pop. We switch Scarborough Fair and Pete's End to marketplaces from colosseums and switch Abbey Road to a worker rather than whip shields. Sugar Mountain is size 10 and will complete a library next turn. We are at 501cpt and will be at least 506cpt next turn. Team Free is still second at 155cpt. Our 75 workers get faster and rail 24 tiles this turn. We have two grasslands left to rail and 44 tiles left in total. Seven workers are still in production.

Any discussion is always welcome, RF. I checked what Republic would be like in CivAssist II. It would double our science but unit upkeep would jump from 0 to 198. Once we join in our 80+ workers and a few more towns grow to cities, I think Republic would put us in the black at 10% science. Democracy would be much better, but of course this option's not available and not likely to be. I think this switch will be worth it, since it will give us the best chance to get to flight before an attack starts. Losing two turns on the culture victory isn't quite as important as being able to defend ourselves. Religious may prove to be quite valuable this game.

 

[RickFGS]

Why ins´t a democracy switch an option to consider? it would only take 4 turns to research at a slow cost and would be much better then republic to boost the economy and increase production imho.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hi, Rick. You are right that democracy would help us much more than republic. We would gain about 80gpt over republic and have less corruption and more productive cities. The problem is we can hardly do any research at all with our high maintenance building costs. We\'re getting corporation now because the Babes are funneling us gold to run deficit research. There is also the problem that we would have to research two techs to get democracy. The printing press tech is a requirement to be able to research democracy as well as banking. If we had only spent our money researching these intead of music theory we would now have that option.

Team Free must be feeding tech to Saber and Council despite their notes calling for resistance to them. How else do they have the time to research economics and music theory and still get all the IA techs they have?

 

[RFHolloway]

Any discussion is always welcome, RF. I checked what Republic would be like in CivAssist II. It would double our science but unit upkeep would jump from 0 to 198. Once we join in our 80+ workers and a few more towns grow to cities, I think Republic would put us in the black at 10% science. Democracy would be much better, but of course this option's not available and not likely to be. I think this switch will be worth it, since it will give us the best chance to get to flight before an attack starts. Losing two turns on the culture victory isn't quite as important as being able to defend ourselves. Religious may prove to be quite valuable this game.

You say it would double our science, could we not reduce our science to cover the increased unit costs?

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We accept 231 gold from the Babes. This allows us to bump science to 80% hiring only two taxmen for corporation due in 3 turns. We have 232 gold at -232gpt. We are strong again versus Free and the Council but average versus Saber. Still no word on diplomacy so a deal between Saber, Council and the Babes now looks unlikely.

In production this turn:

Nutbush City=>marketplace-colosseum in 120
Sugar Mountain=>library-university in 10
The Watchtower=>marketplace-colosseum in 60
On Flame w/RocknRoll=>worker-university in 200
Whip It!=>colosseum-marketplace in 34

Townes Van Zandt whips a university for 3 pop. Graceland drafts two infantry which are disbanded in Guitar Town which whips a university for 2 pop. We are at 506cpt and will be at least 514cpt next turn. We now have 76 workers with 6 in production. All of our plains and grassland tiles are now railed. We have 3 hills, 6 tundra, and 12 mountains left to rail and can start adding workers in for university rushes, soon.

@RF-We could turn science down to pay for unit costs if we aren't turning science down to 0% in which case there wouldn't be much point in switching. Most of our unit costs in Republic would be workers and we won't need many of them soon. Also, some towns are about to grow to cities increasing our unit support. We'll check after we get corporation, but it looks like switching to Republic after a lot of whips will be a good idea.

 

[killercane]

Our culture should start doubling soon. What is the expected win date? If we can add in the workers sooner rather than later to finish the whips I say lets do it.

Go Prince GO!

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hey, kc. The expected win date now is 1460AD. You are right, we can expect about +250cpt from doubling by 800AD and some more by 1000AD. By the time we are done with culture our cpt should top out about 1100cpt with a win date somewhere around 1350AD or about 90 turns. Hopefully, we'll have flight well before then.

 

[RFHolloway]

Can any civ bomb our mainland without aircraft carriers? - just thinking one way to slow us down would be to drop lots of bombs on all our nice cathedrals and stuff. will we need subs to sink thier carriers? or AA guns to defend against them? or fighters? against the AI I dont get to education so I am out of my comfort zone here.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Besides our island town of Kokomo all of our cities are out of range of bombers except those on aircraft carriers. We could conceivably bomb the Free town of Monte Cristo and its rubber source. The range of a bomber is ten tiles. Subs have an attack value of 8 but can only move 4 squares versus a carrier with a defense of 8 and a movement of 7. As long as they defend their carriers with destroyers, subs won't be much help against them. Our best defense is flight. Fighters or subs can reveal the location of enemy fleets and our own bombers can then attack/sink the ships. Fighters can also run air defense and shoot down incoming bombers over our territory. Flak guns can also shoot down bombers is they are fortified in a city or square that is getting bombed. If we get to flight before an attack it should be easy to whip/build a defensive airforce.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We accept another 239 gold from the Babes. The price for corporation went down, I think, since we can now get it next turn. We bump science down to 50% and hire three tax-men for corporation due next turn. We have 239 gold at losing 183gpt. We are now average against Free and Saber and still strong versus the Council.

In production this turn:
Townes Van Zandt=>universtiy-colosseum in 120
Sunset Strip=>worker-university in 200
Guitar Town=>university-colosseum in 120

Beach Party whips a university for 3 pop. We chop a forest into Slane Castle and whip a university for 3 pop. We add 3 workers into Altamont Raceway to whip a library for 2 pop. 5 wokrers join Sin City for a university whip for 4 pop. 4 wokers join Montreaux, Sweet Home Alabama, and Hangar 18 to whip universities for 4 pop. each. 2 workers join Smoke on the Water and Town Called Malice to whip universities for 4 pop. each. We are making 516cpt this turn and will be making at least 551cpt next turn. A single worker joins Graceland and Sugar Mountain to bring both of their pops up to 12. Workers also complete rails on two hills and three mountains leaving us with just 16 tiles left to rail. We have 51 workers left with 5 in production.

I noticed this turn that some of our towns cannot be whipped for universities with worker add-ins since they require aqueducts to grow past size 7. We'll have to either chop forests into them or disband infantry to be able to whip universities at size 6. We can expect gold from the Babes for one more turn and will be researching steel as fast as possible starting next turn.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

You guys are doing a fabulous job. Fascinating reading.

Sorry I have been AWOL for so long. I have gone back to university and just completed my first semester. That combined with family and job makes Bugsy a very dull boy.

 

[RFHolloway]

I noticed this turn that some of our towns cannot be whipped for universities with worker add-ins since they require aqueducts to grow past size 7. We'll have to either chop forests into them or disband infantry to be able to whip universities at size 6. We can expect gold from the Babes for one more turn and will be researching steel as fast as possible starting next turn.

have we got no build bigger than 120 then? what happens when you try to add workers to a size 6 town?
An infantry is 20 shields right - so we only need one per uni (short rush to 120 - disband then pop rush from pop 6) given we have a rail net that shouldn't pose too many problems.

Hi bugs - what you doing back at Uni? IIRC you are even older than I am and I gave up studying 12 years ago!

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hey, Bugs. Good luck at the university, I suppose its never to late to get education.

^^
We don't have any builds bigger than 120 except the factory which is too big at 240. Banks are 160 shields but they require marketplaces first. Cruisers are 160 shields when we get combustion. We could use them as short-rushes in coastal towns, but we will probably be done with university building by then. The game doesn't give you the option to join a worker to a size 6 town without fresh water. Infantry are 22 shields when disbanded, so they are our best option. We can only draft so much from Graceland as it already has three unhappy faces from drafting. A few other towns should be able to draft, soon.

 

[RFHolloway]

Presumably graceland has a market already - as that will help with the unhappiness and the cash flow - if it does - boy have we used the whip a lot (well done!)

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We accept 243 gold from the Babes, get corporation, and send it to the Babes. Everybody already has corporation and F11 shows that the Council has sanitation. Their capital is size 19 and The Treasury is size 16. Obviously, Council and Saber have been trading with Free, despite their complaints about them. Refining is cheaper than steel, so at least one team knows refining while steel is unknown so far. With 299 gold we are able to crank science to 100% for one turn losing 291gpt and have steel due in 8 turns. Next turn we won't be getting any gold from the Babes, but should still be able to get steel sooner than expected. We might have flight by 900AD.

In production this turn:
DSOTM=>courthouse-stock exchange in 8
Smoke on the Water=>university-colosseum in 120
Sin City=>university-colosseum in 120
Town Called Malice=>university-colosseum in 120
Montreaux=>university-colosseum in 120
Hangar 18=>university-colosseum in 120
Sweet Home Alabama=>university-colosseum in 120
Palace of the Brine=>worker-colosseum in 120
Slane Castle=>university-colosseum in 120
Beach Party=>university-colosseum in 120
Altamont Raceway=>library-university in 200

Rock Lobsterford whips a colosseum for 3 pop. Rutupiae whips a cathedral for 1 pop. Graceland drafts two more infantry. One is disbanded in Yellow Brick Road to allow a university whip for 3 pop. The other is disbanded in Motor City Five and a worker joins the town to whip a university for 3 pop. Our workers chop a forest into Streets Have No Name and 3 join the town to whip a university for 3 pop. A total of 32 workers join Rockaway Beach, On Flame w/RocknRoll, Ring of Fire, and T for Texas each of which whip universities for 4 pop. Our workers rail the last hill on the coast and we only have 8 mountains and 7 tundra left to rail. We now have only 16 workers with 3 in production.

We are making 551cpt now and will be making at least 584cpt next turn. Team Free is still second with 162cpt. Our total culture is now 23,752 while Free's is 7,681. We have definitely used the whip a lot. Some of our cities have been whipped to death and can no longer work a single tile. As an agriculture civ they still grow with no citizens, though. Our cities support a total of 96 specialists now. We are still average versus Saber and Free, while strong versus the Council.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We accept another 243 gold from the Babes as I forgot to "accept" the corporation send last turn. This turn corporation is sent to the Babes, so expect no gold from them next turn. We bump science down to 70% to stay afloat and have 251 gold in the treasury at -250gpt for steel due in 8 turns. There have been no formal deals in diplomacy, but the Babes at least report a cease-fire agreement with the Council. We are still average versus Saber and Free while strong versus the Council. In the victory screen our power seems to be about the same as Babe.

In production this turn:
Ring of Fire=>university-worker in 10
Rock Lobsterford=>colosseum-worker in 10
Motor City Five=>university-worker in 10
On Flame w/RocknRoll=>university-worker in 10
Rockaway Beach=>university-worker in 10
E Street=>worker-university in 200
Streets Have No Name=>university-worker in 10
T for Texas=>university-worker in 10
Yellow Brick Road=>university-worker in 10
Rutupiae=>cathedral-library in 80

Nothing gets whipped this turn and many colosseum builds that didn't have shields whipped into them are switched to workers to provide add-ins for the few universities we have left to build. Workers rail two more mountains and we only have 6 mountains and 7 tundra left to rail. We have 17 workers with 20 in production. Our culture has started to double in some towns as we have 588cpt this turn, but any cpt added next turn will come from doubling only. Free remains in second at 162cpt although the victory screen shows the Council with about the same culture as them.

We'll be turning science down to 0% next turn with no gold expected from the Babes and hiring many tax-men to stay afloat. Both Graceland and DSOTM are building stock exchanges now to help. When the Babes get refining, they'll start sending us gold to increase our science again.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

The Babes failed to notice they got corporation from us, so they send another 250 gold. We have 251 gold in the treasury losing 250gpt with steel due in 7 turns at 70% science. Relative power between the teams is unchanged.

There were no builds or whips this turn either. Our workers rail two more mountains and our cpt remains at 588. Free is up to 167cpt. CivAssistII reports a 1425AD win date now with no more culture builds. We hire 8 clowns to keep cities from losing pop. and 2 tax-men to stay afloat. We Built This City becomes our 4th city. We'll have at least one whip next turn and DSOTM and Graceland are nearing completion of their stock exchanges.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Hi bugs - what you doing back at Uni? IIRC you are even older than I am and I gave up studying 12 years ago!

Graduate School. Been a long time since I was in school. It is kicking my butt.