Turnplay Log

[killercane]

Yep they have lethal bombard. What we need to do as a measure of last resort is cut roads to the outer cities so they cant steamroll through in one turn a la last MTDG. They can also destroy culture buildings, ie they can bomb us back to the stone age from carriers if we dont have ships.

I think we should build whatever units that complete in 1 turn. Is there anything we can build for 40 shields that has A/D/M value? IE, build that rather than the 2 turn cavs. I would like to see us use up all that pretty unit support.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We could build 30-shield horsemen if we cut both iron and saltpeter sources. Sugar Mountain is using one iron tile and Paradise City is using saltpeter, but we could irrigate/mine back those back for production and some growth. Do you suggest this and if so, how many do you think we need? We have about 140 left in unit support, IIRC.

Sugar Mountain can build 80 shield guerillas with a coal plant and factory and some starvation for awhile. Graceland could do 70-shield flak when we get flight (probably 20 turns).

I'm pretty fuzzy about upgrade costs with Leo's as well, although that might not be as important right now.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

One other option is 1-turn knights from both Graceland and Sugar Mountain with coal plants only cutting the saltpeter sources.

 

[killercane]

We could build 30-shield horsemen if we cut both iron and saltpeter sources. Sugar Mountain is using one iron tile and Paradise City is using saltpeter, but we could irrigate/mine back those back for production and some growth. Do you suggest this and if so, how many do you think we need? We have about 140 left in unit support, IIRC.

Sugar Mountain can build 80 shield guerillas with a coal plant and factory and some starvation for awhile. Graceland could do 70-shield flak when we get flight (probably 20 turns).

I'm pretty fuzzy about upgrade costs with Leo's as well, although that might not be as important right now.

Horses to cav is 75 gold apiece. Knights>cav is 15 gold IIRC. 1.5 gold per shield.

 

[Yilar]

3 gold per shield. With leo 1.5...

I would only build cavs if i could get them in 2 turns instead of 3 turn infs.

That would be with cities with 40-44 shields. We have no need for "speed" units, as we got our island railed and we ain't going anywhere. Which btw makes marines useless for us.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We send the last payment of 40 gold to the Babes and should get combustion next turn. The Babes have made peace with the Council and the Council now has military tradition. We've not been informed of this treaty by the Babes, let us hope they got a good deal. We don't need gold next turn so 20 engineers and 1 policeman to go with our 37 taxmen are hired. Markets will be completed in We Built This City and Pete's End next turn.

In production this turn:

Graceland=>cavalry-coal plant in 4
GWOF=>worker-courthouse in 16
DSOTM=>factory-coal plant in 4

Our 14 workers chop 10 shields into E Street and 10 shields into Hangar18. We draft 1 infantry from both Graceland and DSOTM as they will grow back to size12 next turn. We are still weak versus all teams. By 1000AD, we should be able to draft about 15 infantry, build 25+ knights which can upgrade for only 15 gold apiece, 5 destroyers and a cruiser and possibly 10+ units from other towns. By then at least 10 cities should be ready to produce units for the rest of the game. We'll do everything we can to increase these numbers even further, but I don't think we need to go into panic mode atm. We are making 821cpt now and the Council is now up to 229cpt in a distant second place.

 

[Yilar]

I think we should do infs out of Graceland, we are producing 45 shields there. Which is enough to make an inf every 2 turns.

Also I dobt the courthouse in GWOF will pay off. We got a barracks there, build units instead? The same thing goes for paradise city.

Also we should prioritize growth in GWOF and Paradise as those cities got markets/caths/colusseums and are very close to the capital.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

All right, I have no problem building 2-turn infantry out of Graceland. It will save us the expense of a coal plant for now. The same goes for Sugar Mtn. when it completes its factory, since it has to starve quite a bit to make any 1-turn units. If we cut resources to make cheaper knights or horsemen every other team will see what we are doing and may smell fear. We'll make a few less units this way, but infantry are more useful than knights as we would struggle to find even that small amount of money to upgrade them to cavs.

Switching from courts to units is probably a good idea at Paradise City and GWOF. Once they grow big enough they may be able to use police to reduce loss shields if needed. Both cities have been configured for maximum growth during the turn. When they grow the ai puts the citizen on high shield tiles until I switch them manually.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Well, my count must have been off by one turn as the Babes do not send combustion this turn. We have no gold to send them this turn, so let's hope this doesn't cause the delay of another turn. In other foreign news, the Council now has navigation and is building Magellan's Voyage. We can expect them to complete this next turn. The Babes have given up quite a bit more than I thought to the Council for peace. They are now in possession of one of the Babe's resource islands including three towns and sources of iron, saltpeter, horses, rubber and ivory. Magellan's Voyage will give the Council a GA if they have not already had one with a H'wacha victory. It's now uncertain whether the Council or Free are the strongest team.

In production this turn:

We Built This City=>marketplace-cavalry
Pete's End=>marketplace-colosseum

We whip a marketplace at Hotel California for 4 pop. and one at Love Shack for 5 pop. Our workers chop shields into Rockaway Beach and GWOF. We draft infantry at Nutbush City and The Watchtower as these will grow again next turn. I noticed that commerce is applied before growth as we do lose 6 gold from the drafts at Graceland and DSOTM last turn. However, this is a small price to pay for more units, so we will continue to draft infantry where applicable. For this turn, since we don't have combustion, we hire 30 engineers, 3 policeman, and 22 taxmen for a balanced budget at 0 gold. Ships continue to move to fortified vantage points and it is noticed that a Saber destroyer is cruising some 6 tiles off our eastern coast. We switch the build at Graceland, GWOF, and Paradise City to cavalry. Graceland will resume 2-turn infantry builds next turn.

 

[RFHolloway]

Just running through the options as to how I would stop our culture bomb - Naval bombardment? Sea dominance and use naval bombardment to bomb all the coastal cities until they hit all the culture producing buildings was what I was thinking. How much would that take before we were struggling to rebuild as fast as they were bombing it?

 

[killercane]

It takes a lot to bombard the culture. Ships usually suck at bombarding. When bombers come in play though...

The best ship to build for the attack ratio (attack/shield cost) are destroyers. Subs are kind of close and can sneak around a bit, attacking carriers.

Is a nuclear sub invisible and can carry a unit other than a nuke?

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

The more units we can put in cities, the less the chances are that bombardment will kill culture buildings. Besides the temple, we would have a hard time replacing any buildings destroyed this way.

We should be able to build some navy, especially destroyers, as we don't have to build any transports. Hopefully, we'll get flight before bombers come to attack. Both Graceland and Sugar Mountain could build 1-turn flak. These should control bombers, absorb attacks, act as mp's, and even defeat a few marines that attack us.

AFAIK, nuclear subs are invisible like subs and they can also carry a cruise missile, rather than just a nuke.

Imo, the science teams need to worry about each other as much or more than us. If one of them can research ahead to nukes and build Manhattan's faster than the others, the rest of the world could turn to rubble quickly. This may be our ultimate demise regardless of what we do. We probably will never even know where the uranium is. How the balance of power plays out will be key to our chances.

Why did the Babes let the Council off the hook and give them rubber and military tradition? I've asked, but have received no answer yet.

 

[killercane]

The more units we can put in cities, the less the chances are that bombardment will kill culture buildings. Besides the temple, we would have a hard time replacing any buildings destroyed this way.

We should be able to build some navy, especially destroyers, as we don't have to build any transports. Hopefully, we'll get flight before bombers come to attack. Both Graceland and Sugar Mountain could build 1-turn flak. These should control bombers, absorb attacks, act as mp's, and even defeat a few marines that attack us.

AFAIK, nuclear subs are invisible like subs and they can also carry a cruise missile, rather than just a nuke.

Imo, the science teams need to worry about each other as much or more than us. If one of them can research ahead to nukes and build Manhattan's faster than the others, the rest of the world could turn to rubble quickly. This may be our ultimate demise regardless of what we do. We probably will never even know where the uranium is. How the balance of power plays out will be key to our chances.

Why did the Babes let the Council off the hook and give them rubber and military tradition? I've asked, but have received no answer yet.

I was thinking we could put a marine on a nuclear sub and commando style destroy some coastal cities. I cant say I know how nuke sub works but only cruise missiles and nukes makes sense.

I am sure that nukes will play a large part in someone's demise, maybe ours.

 

[Yilar]

Nuke subs are like regular subs, just a bit more expensive with better stats. Also they cant carry cruise missles, marines or any other unit type, only tactical nukes!

Subs are fairly useless in general, as most will protect their carriers/loaded transports with at least 1 destoyer. In our situation I would focus on destroyers to protect our waters.

Also I don't know why we are still building cavarly. We need units with defence. Draft infs units are okay, but vet infs are just that much better. Once we get tanks we can build them till the end of the world, but for now I would like to see us get some much needed infs to protect against marines.

Oh, and if we get nuked we are dead meat... Our only hope if they get nukes is that they don't organize it and they don't have enough nukes to take out our culture before it is to late.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Yep, I just tested it on an old save and they can only carry tactical nukes. According to the civilopedia, subs have stealth attack. Doesn't this mean it can chose to attack a transport directly and ignore the destroyer? Or does the destroyer automatically negate this by seeing the sub?

I swithced Graceland to a cavalry, since it no longer had enough shields to make an inafantry next turn. It will go back to building inf next turn. The other cities making cavalry can switch to infantry, I suppose, but will take another turn to build them.

 

[Yilar]

It means you can't see which direction the sub attacks from. The best unit will always defend first.

 

[Daghdha]

Stealth attack indeed means the sub can pick out the transport in a stack of destroyers which makes them very useful. Problem is that they will be seen by destroyers which have 2 more moves and will whack the sub if attacking.

 

[Yilar]

Hmm i will have to test that i was sure it was quite useless...

Edit: Amazing it works... I did not know that. We should consider building some subs maybe.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We receive combustion from the Babes and start research on flight. With freed mp's we are able to put more citizens to work. We have 22 tax-men and 33 scientists for a balanced budget and flight due in 48 turns. We can expect this time to come down in the next few turns as we hire more scientists upon growth and the Babes will send us gold to finish it quickly after they get mass production, amphibious war and possibly motirized transportation. They need 6 turns for mass production and similar times for the other two.

In other foreign news, the Babes have made some kind of deal with Saber, but remain at war with them. Saber now has military tradition and has also been given one of Babes resource islands with 3 towns, rubber, horses, iron and ivory. I suppose that Saber wants to keep the war to benefit from war-happiness, but we can assume a cease-fire. The Council has completed Magellan's Voyage and started their GA. We remain weak versus all teams and the Babes have taken a noticeable down-turn in the power graph.

In production this turn:

Graceland=>cavalry-infantry in 2
Love Shack=>marketplace-colosseum
Hotel California=>marketplace-colosseum

Workers irrigate a tile at GWOF, chop 10 shields into Paradise City, and mine a grassland at Graceland to bring it back to 45 shields. We switch builds at Paradise City, GWOF and We Built This City to infantry from cavalry. Basement on a Hill switches to a destroyer which will complete next turn. Naval patrols spot nothing this turn. We gain 11cpt from culture doubling and are now at 831cpt. The Council has added more cpt and is now at 11,522 total culture to our 37,322.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

A bit of info has come in from the Babes. The Council forced them into a 40 turn peace by landing on their island. Since it was going to lost as well as war-happiness anyway, they gave it up for MT+40 turns of peace and 2 luxes. The Council immediately sold MT to Saber, so we can't get any gold from them for it.

The Babes also lost the island to Saber, as both the Council and Saber now have flight and marines. They say it is touch and go on saving their last ivory island from Saber now and that Saber does not want peace because they are gettin war-happiness. It looks like our pals the Babes are going to be in for a rough ride in the short term.

At least, it does appear that Free is not allied with the Council or Saber, atm. If they force them to at least research through electronics themselves at least the modern age may be delayed for awhile. Does anybody think we should offer Free a deal for our furs or Military Tradition? They might benefit some, but we could sure use some gold to get to flight faster.