Turnplay Log

Team Saber has wasted no time in using their marines as they have now captured the last resource island of the Babes. We lose ivory as a result and 25 towns go into civil disorder this turn. I've noted that we are sending two luxuries to Team Saber and only receiving one luxury in return. I've sent a note to Team Saber requesting they send ivory in compensation for benefitting from this arrangement from so long. On the next turn, I will send a note to Team Free asking if they would like to make an offer for our extra source of furs and/or military tradition. We are still weak versus all teams, but the Babes have taken a significant down-turn in the power graph.

In production this turn:

Basement on a Hill=>destroyer-marketplace

We whip another vet destroyer from E Street for 2 pop. and draft infantry from both We Built This City and Pete's End as they will grow back next turn. Our workers chop 10 shields into GWOF and rebuild a mine there and also start to plant forests for chop's into Pete's End next turn. Rather than hire clowns our towns in civil disorder hire scientists. We now have 26 taxmen and 53 scientists for flight due in 30 turns with a balanced budget. Our cpt remains at 832 while we note that the Council has risen to 252cpt in second place. Our small navy continues to patrol, but spots no vessels of other teams this turn.
 
We accept a 145 gold gift from the Babes and Team Saber also sends us ivory to compensate for getting two luxuries for one. Our military advisor now says we are average to the Council and weak versus the others. It also appears more Babe workers have been captured. I don't know if that means a landing on the Babe mainland or not, but there are no new conquests by Saber yet. We use the gold to gather more beakers for flight and put many citizens back to work as we are again #1 in family size. We have 145 gold in the treasury losing 129gpt at 30% science for flight due in 19 turns. I have sent a note to Free asking if they would like to offer some gold for furs and/or military tradition.

In production this turn:

Graceland=>infantry-infantry in 2
Dirty Old Town=>worker-worker
DSOTM=>coal plant-harbor in 2
Sugar Mtn.=>factory-infantry in 2
E Street=>destroyer-university

Pardise City and Woodstock become our 9th and 10th cities. We still have 116 available in free unit support. Nutbush City drafts an infantry and will grow back next turn. It has about run out of happy faces to draft anymore. We whip a frigate at Castle Donnington for 1 pop. as we need a few more naval sentries. A Council cruiser is spotted just off our northern cultural boundary and a destroyer is spotted within 5 tiles of DSOTM. DSOTM gets the vet infantry for defense and no other vessels are spotted. We gain +2 from cultural doubling this turn and are at 834cpt with the Council in second at +259cpt.
 
Time is the key thing here - we just have to hold on - although that is looking more and more difficult. Getting our flight defense is important, but my sense is the sci teams are closer to a space win than we are to 100K. I don't want any trade that would speed up the tech pace, even if it is the outside possibility that free don't reaserch MT and instead research something that speeds the tech race - the luxury thats OK to trade though.
 
Team Free doesn't respond to our offer of a trade. They aren't trading with Saber or the Babes so they must be content to live without luxuries. The Babes no longer have iron so we send it to them. The price of flight drops again so all the science teams probably have it now. With only 16 gold we balance the treasury with 4 tax-men, 1 police, and hire 48 scientists at 0% science for flight due in 25 turns. Both the Council and Saber have some ships off our coast, but our patrols spot no transports, so far. We are still average to the Council and weak to everybody else. Still no teams have reached the modern age.

In production this turn:

Castle Donnington=>frigate-university

Rock Lobsterford whips a market for 4 pop. and Pete's End drafts an infantry. Shields are chopped into Pete's End and a mine is built there. We are still making 834cpt for an estimated win date in 66 turns. A long way to go, but we've good chances to win before any team gets to space as Free does not appear to be cooperating with Saber and the Council. In particular, the Council must spend at least 12 turns of its GA researching the monopoly techs starting with Scientific Method. We will produce another 3 vet infantry next turn and have 5 cities building them. DSOTM will start producing a destroyer every 3-4 turns next turn.

As RF said, time is the key. The window of opportunity is still open for any Team to hurt us with an attack now. If they find themselves busy, by 1000AD that window should be closed and we should be relatively safe until they get farther in the modern age. I think for the science teams to beat us to space, they will need to cooperate fully and I don't see that happening, atm. OTOH, one of them will probably get to nukes. If we can become sufficiently strong it might be a good idea to make some type of commando raids at some point.
 
Lets crack open the diplomacy front and write Saber and Council some letters about how we want peace and will help them out and a landing would be costly with massive unit support of ours. Now, they know we are going culture, but we could try to convince them that it wont be for a long time and Free is the bigger threat. Any other ideas?
 
Even though I only see one active specialist in our "market" cities. I think we should try and get rid of those and use them for growth instead, we still have some 20 land squares around on our isle that are not currently being used. Let's try and make use of them and grow our cities a bit...
 
killercane said:
Lets crack open the diplomacy front and write Saber and Council some letters about how we want peace and will help them out and a landing would be costly with massive unit support of ours. Now, they know we are going culture, but we could try to convince them that it wont be for a long time and Free is the bigger threat. Any other ideas?

The only problem I see with that is they know we aren't using all of our unit support. We should be careful not to sound desperate which might invite an earlier attack. According to the Babes, the Council does want to build a coalition against Free. I believe they are a little miffed about not getting scientific method from them. I think they already view Free as the bigger threat.

If an attack does come soon, then 100k is out of the question. Perhaps we could then sell off some of our culture to call off the dogs and use the cash for upgrading. We have more than 3,000 gold in universities and libraries not to mention the savings on maintenance. I think this should be a last resort, but the possibility of slowing our culture growth in the future might be worth mentioning to Council/Saber.

Yilar said:
Even though I only see one active specialist in our "market" cities. I think we should try and get rid of those and use them for growth instead, we still have some 20 land squares around on our isle that are not currently being used. Let's try and make use of them and grow our cities a bit...

Every turn I am rehuffling mp's and maximizing growth in all towns. We are #1 in family size. These small towns with specialists can't grow anymore because they have been whipped to death. Any specialists there put to work would just be unhappy. I keep checking every turn and put citizens back to work if possible, but it takes a long time.
 
Here's an interesting thought just sent by the Babes:

Whomp said:
Just so you know Free had a cruiser nearby so it looks like they're getting up there. Should be interesting...I wonder if we should see if they want to partner and throw Council and Saber under the bus by telling them what the other two are thinking?

W

Don't know if we want to do something like this just now, but it's another idea to discuss.
 
Would be nice if we could get Free to join Babe in a full out war against saber and the council, while we sit and wait for the end :)
 
We get a big surprise this turn. Saber has reached the modern age first! They're not even trading luxes with Free, so it's hard to believe Free traded away atomic theory and electronics to them. I'm fairly convinced they must be stealing tech successfully as they are most likely the richest civ. What does the Council think of their friends now and what is Free going to do? It appears RF is right. They are closer to space than we are to culture and will probably get a GA with the Internet at some point. Our best chance now is in the diplomatic arena, but we need to see how the others are going to respond first. Saber now appears to be the one to stop. They are also extremely active in planning as I've noticed Chamnix appears to live on their forums nearly 24/7.

In production this turn:

Graceland=>infantry-infantry in 2
Paradise City=>infantry-infantry in 7
DSOTM=>harbor-destroyer in 3
Sugar Mountain=>infantry-infantry in 2
Rock Lobsterford=>marketplace-harbor

Our 15 workers chop shields into Scarborough Fair and Pete's End and re-irrigate one tile and mine the other. A market is whipped at Heartbreak Hotel for 4 pop. Whip It! whips a marketplace for 1 pop and remains at size 7. Shields are whipped into several towns for 1 pop.

The Council continues to send their cruiser around our island to the west and a frigate is following behind. Am I correct in assuming we can see stacks of ships in mp? Our patrols spot one Free cruiser to the NE, but see no signs of Sabers ships. I'm stopping the boats with one move left and fortifying to extend their line of sight to three tiles at the start of the turn. A galley is moving towards Rutupiae, our rubber source island to transfer some infantry there as defense and mp's, soon.

We remain average to the Council and weak versus all other teams. We gain +6cpt and are now making 840cpt with 40,670 total culture while Council is now up to 265cpt. We still are last in pop due to whipping/drafting, but still have the best growth with #1 family size. Paradise City becomes our 11th city and our free unit support drops to 222. We still have 107 units to go to fill it up. I've sent our world map to the Babes and we should get their updated world map next turn. We have 13 taxmen, 1 policeman, and 44 scientists for a balanced budget at 0 gold and flight due in 28 turns.

Here's the updated power graph showing the Babes decline and Saber's gains. I'll have more pictures next turn.

PowerGraph880AD.jpg
 
Hi everyone,

Back from university hell for a few weeks.

How hard would it be for the babes and us to go into some joint thievery?
 
Hey Bugs.

I don't fully know the answer to that, but safe steals cost anywhere from 2500 gold (Free) to 2812 gold (Saber). Immediate steals cost half that. If we turn science off we might be able to come up with 90-100 gpt, while the Babes could probably get 250-300 gpt. That means 4 turns for a chance at an immediate steal and 6-7 turns for a safe one. The Babes are currently researching at a 6-7 turn pace, so it might not help us too much atm as failure would be quite a waste.

It's unknown if Saber or anybody else has espionage. I wouldn't be too surprised if they don't already have a spy on us now. How does this work in MP, anyway? I assume we at least would get a message if any attempt failed. It might be worth a shot at the bottleneck techs of atomic theory and electronics and certainly in the modern age, though. Does anybody else have more experience with this?
 
6-7 turns wouldn't make a difference. I think I remember saying we could start shifting to a money economy soon => tax collectors. How realistic is that idea?

Also, exactly how many turns do we have until 100K?

We can probably figure how long till the earliest space launch since we just had a firm modern age date.

With nine techs @ four turns per => minimum 37 turns to launch with several blistering shield producing cities. Probably more likely 40-50 turns.

Comparing the two would indicate our level of urgency.
 
What I meant by turn science off is fire our scientists and hire tax-men, which would be no trouble at all if we want to. We're already running 100% tax-rate just to pay the bills. We can't do much better than 100gpt ourselves, but I was just guessing as to the Babes money capacity. I'll ask Whomp what he thinks of the idea and report back on that.

As long as our culture is not destroyed we would reach 100K on turn 271 (1395AD) or 66 turns from now if we build no more culture. We have 5 universities and 38 colosseums left as possible culture builds which could shave another 5-6 turns off that date if built in time. We may eventually get computers and save another turn or two with some research labs. Our realistic best 100k date is turn 265 (1365AD) or 60 turns from now. We would need to gain some new territory somehow to improve this date further. Maybe settle in the gaps if a team starts losing territory?

It's 12 modern age techs to get to space minus one for each science teams free tech. Do we assume they all get different ones and then share them with each other to leave 9-techs for each? It's one thing to get the 4200 beaker motorized transportation in 4-turns and quite another to get the 9600 beaker robotics in 4-turns. We'll have a better idea how fast they're going when we see the Internet built. I'll be on the lookout for mech infantry or TOW infantry to see if we can determine what free tech they got.
 
The Council has reached the modern age, while Free remains industrial. They are obviously aligned and Saber is intent on holding Free down. I'm guessing, but Free is probably losing the research battle due to high unit support. They were the first science team to become stronger than us. I'm working on an IA timeline, but so far it appears Saber stole at least atomic theory and electronics from Free. Council and Free researched at least four cheap optional techs during the IA and probably saved money for safe steals from Free.

I've received this reply in gmail from Whomp in regards to stealing techs ourselves.

Whomp said:
I sent the map and 189g. We can do 423 gpt and are running 80gpt unit supprort. I could disband some cavalry and focus solely on infantry. I stopped research for the turn if you guys think it's better to steal. Remember it would be through the embassy so if we were to steal grabbing espionage would be the most logical. We don't have embassies with any of the others iirc but I can look again. Stealing through the embassy is less efficient. I know there's an article with the odds but I know espionage helps those figures quite a bit.

Let me know if you think we should research again or save the cash

Just realized I forgot to send mass production. So sorry but I'll send it next turn

My thought is we should have them research motorized transportation for defense and then espionage while sending us gold when they can to speed our research on flight. We can then research the cheap scientific method while they do marines and be ready to start steal attempts after this in about 14 turns.

I've checked the percentages for stealing tech safely. It's 68% with a spy and 52% using the embassy. That means on average we need 7500-8000 gold to get 2 techs with a spy. We should be close to having an attempt every 4-turns by then. Not a bad deal at all, especially considering tech costs in the modern age. Atomic theory and electronics would be cheaper though, so we may want to research those and have more time to get the Intelligence agency built and build some defense as we need to be ready if we fail. We can hope getting flight, tanks, and marines will deter an attack a while longer. According to the formula on the cost of tech steals, the less techs they are ahead, the cheaper its cost as well. I need to give Whomp an answer by the next turn, so input on what we should do is requested.

In production this turn:

Heartbreak Hotel=>marketplace-colosseum
Whip It!=>marketplace-courthouse in 10

An infantry is drafted at We Built This City and Smoke on the Water whips a marketplace for 4 pop. We get our first bit of pollution at Sugar Mtn, but 6 workers clean it and no builds are delayed. We need 3 more workers to have the 18 needed to clean a mountain or two hills in one turn if we get pollution there. Our workers also chop ten shields into We Built This City and it will now produce an infantry in 2 turns. Dirty Old Town becomes our 12th city and will continue to grow even while building a few workers. Here's a zoomed out look of Gongland after all actions this turn.

GongLand890AD-1.jpg


We'll be able to whip markets in several cities soon and might also consider building a couple of banks to pay the bills as well. Our boats continue their patrols and another Saber destroyer is spotted 9-tiles east of DSOTM. The Councils frigate has stayed in place and is monitoring movements as we are. In the above minimap we need line of sight as far as the small resource islands. This would take another 6-8 boats and we should have these in about 12 turns. We remain average to Council and weak versus all other teams. Here's a screenshot of our domestic advisor with 10 tax-men, 4 policemen, and 41 scientists for a balanced budget and flight due in 27 turns at 100% tax-rate.

DomesticAdvisor890AD.jpg


With the courthoses seen in the screenshot we should have about 6 towns able to make infantry every six turns as well as the 2-turn infantry from Graceland and Sugar Mountain. DSOTM will be our main naval producer.

We are still at 840cpt with 41,524 total culture and the Council remains in a distant second at 265cpt. Just completing the culture builds we have going now will save another turn. We can expect to reach 100K at least by turn 270 or 65 turns from now in 1390AD. Here's screenshot of the culture graph so far in the game. This of course accounts for a good part of power graph as well as we still are behind most in military.

CultureGraph890AD.jpg
 
If Saber and the Council are allied and Free is alone, we should try and work Free into our alliance. Only to keep tech pace though.
 
That would be alright, but Free hasn't responded to my attempt to contact them. It's a good thing for us they're not too friendly with Saber, though.

Unless someone has something to say about tech stealing, I'll get the Babes to start researching motorized transportation and then help us finish flight with cash. We need the defense before we get espionage and try stealing.
 
That would be alright, but Free hasn't responded to my attempt to contact them. It's a good thing for us they're not too friendly with Saber, though.

Unless someone has something to say about tech stealing, I'll get the Babes to start researching motorized transportation and then help us finish flight with cash. We need the defense before we get espionage and try stealing.
Well tech stealing is definitely the most efficient means of obtaining the later technologies.

Something fun to do would be to try to flip some cities w/ propaganda; our date is already set and it would be hilarious to me if something like that worked on some core city.
 
Alright, we should be able to get flight, tanks, and espionage in 10-12 turns and start catching up with spies.

killercane said:
Something fun to do would be to try to flip some cities w/ propaganda; our date is already set and it would be hilarious to me if something like that worked on some core city.

That would be hilarious and fun to try. We'll get +30% to our chances since everybody is in awe of our culture. Even better than a core town, it could give us a chance to stop a spaceship. The Council only has rubber on their island town and being small with no culture or courthouse should be easy to flip. This could possibly save the game if the timings right.
 
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