Turns 141-160

[Kuningas]

How do we proceed once we enter the IA?
I fear that we may lose ToE race to MIA. Their science is too strong.

one possibility:
Communism the most powerful government in C3C. We can whip literally hundreads units in Communism. Combined with the Pyramids and AG trait this is feasible option. Has anyone tried that in MP games?

 

[Kuningas]

We did pay high price for Banking. Exclusive Banking costs 1560 beakers. We did give 1400gp to MIA. So they got Banking for 160 beakers (1560-1400). Fair price would be 1560/2 = 780gp. Both teams contributing half. Nice thing to keep in mind for future trades.

 

[Aigburth]

It's a fairly safe bet MIA will put a high priority on ToE and probably already have a pre-build going, btw have they had their GA yet?

I like your thinking with Communism but have no experience with this government, seems like a make or break, conquest or bust gamble. Is Sun Tzu’s still available? Could be a useful wonder if we go down that route.

 

[Robi D]

How do we proceed once we enter the IA?
I fear that we may lose ToE race to MIA. Their science is too strong.

one possibility:
Communism the most powerful government in C3C. We can whip literally hundreads units in Communism. Combined with the Pyramids and AG trait this is feasible option. Has anyone tried that in MP games?

Haven't tried it in MP games but it's a great strategy for the position we are in. Let's face it, given how far we fell behind MIA and KISS due to the TNT wars it will take us a long time to catch up to either of them in a scientific capacity. I think your idea is the best shot we have for winning this game.

 

[Kuningas]

Turn played a bit late.

Screenshot
As usual TNT abandoned Provobomb. We are ready to attack two last cities on next turn could pass that knowledge to KISS.

 

[Kuningas]

@Aigburth. MIA havent had GA yet IMO.
Sun Tzu's have been under construction by KISS and MIA.

 

[killercane]

Back. I will look at the save later.

 

[killercane]

Here is the screenshot of Dancing Banana, which is where TNT is taking its last stand per KISS. I think it would be foolhardy to attack it when KISS can just clean up afterwards. I dont think we can take the city. I propose that we let KISS soften them up and then take them out.

I will wait til late tonight to play to see if there are any objections to holding off until next turn.

 

[Robi D]

No objections here, KISS has a bunch of treb's to soften up the defenders so let KISS use them.

 

[killercane]

Had a conversation with General W today at work via MSN. They have some paranoid people... they actually think we would trade techs with KISS! Craziness. It seems we can trade Mil Trad for ToG or Magnetism when we get Mil Tradition. MIA also proposed a few things on peace deals with KISS.


Just wanted to test the waters with you a little - now that the tech-trading part of our arangement is done, is there any interest on your team in trying to work out another tech swap or two?
casey j says:
sure what did you have in mind? Mil Tradition?
Josh says:
Well, we were under the impression you weren't really interested in that tech?
casey j says:
No we will have it, for trade
casey j says:
didnt know if you were interested
casey j says:
what did you have in mind?
Josh says:
lol - we must have miscomunicated somewhere along the line!
Josh says:
Are you planning on getting MilTrad after Metulurgy?
Josh says:
or are you saying you want us to get it, then trade it to you?
casey j says:
no we will be getting it
casey j says:
what are your tech plans
Josh says:
Well - Theory of Gravity and Magnetism
Josh says:
I believe we're still just waiting to do our Metallurgy for Physics trade.
Josh says:
we've got Physics ready to trade, I believe, as soon as you're ready to go
casey j says:
sure, but are you wanting us to do magnetism while you do ToG?
casey j says:
Ive been away, i need to check and see how close we are to metal
Josh says:
ok - cool - I think we can get both Mag. and ToG ourselves.
Josh says:
If I'm asking for too much info - just tell me, but you're making it sound like you're getting MilTrad from KISS - I'm curious how you worked out that deal?
casey j says:
??
casey j says:
i dont think we are on the same page
Josh says:
LOL - you may have to excuse me. I'm the captain of the paranoid members of my team
casey j says:
our current plans are to do mil trad, but if you want us to do magnetism while you do ToG we can do that instead, OR trade mil tradition for Mag or ToG. Did you want to discuss IA tech swapping? Im confused as to what you are wanting to trade
Josh says:
yeah - we started off this talk on different pages. In a previous chat, I remember you saying your team didn't want to do MilTrad... hence my confusion. If you ARE going to research it - then yeah, we may totally be able to work out a trade for Mag. or ToG.
Josh says:
Only problem with that could be timing
Josh says:
we're on a bit of a deadline for needing Military Tradition
Josh says:
Since our peace with KISS expires on turn 166
casey j says:
No i remember that conversation, I understand you. But IIRC you were wanting to trade Mil Trad for banking or something or another. ANYWAY,
casey j says:
are you planning on going to war with KISS when your agreement expires?
casey j says:
or planning on them warring with you?
Josh says:
well - we may not have a choice! (yeah - more like the second one)
Josh says:
Let me put it this way - we don't intended to renew our peace deal
Josh says:
which is good for you - less to fear from KISS
casey j says:
we will have mil tradition well before then
Josh says:
Great - can I ask for some idea on when you'll have Metulurgy and then Mil Trad?
casey j says:
i need to check the save to give you an accurate timeline on tech pace
casey j says:
ive been away, and just got back to playing the save
casey j says:
but i can let you know
Josh says:
ok - I understand. That'd be great.
Josh says:
we don't have to work out a deal right now - we just wanted to see where you wanted to go with the trading once the Metal-Phys deal is done.
Josh says:
You more interested in Magnetism or in Theory of Gravity for MilTrad?
casey j says:
are you doing ToG first or mag, and how close are you to each? so that we can do a timeline. We are researching really fast now that we have infrastructure in place and science farms
casey j says:
it doesnt matter I dont think, either ToG or Magnetism. I think tech costs are the same
casey j says:
but i might be wrong and will need to double check
Josh says:
they are - both 2040 beakers
casey j says:
ok
casey j says:
what about for IA? it would be dependant on your free tech I suppose.
Josh says:
MilTrad is 1920 - but I think we'd accept a very small ammount of gold to balance it out - in the interest of friendship
casey j says:
if you draw nationalism and are at war, we may be able to provide some gold so you can upgrade some rifles
Josh says:
yeah - some IA trading is totally a possibility also
Josh says:
we'll have to see what we draw.
casey j says:
TNT will hopefully be gone next turn, it would have been nice to have their free tech as well
Josh says:
ok - when you get a chance to check the save, why don't you let us know what your ETA on Metalurguy and MilTrad are... and maybe float the idea of trading MilTrad with your ream - and let us know.
casey j says:
alright
Josh says:
(yeah - that is kinda a shame. I doubt anyone could have gotten the tech out of them anyway thoug)
casey j says:
ha you are probably right, aside from stealing it
Josh says:
lol - indeed.
Josh says:
ok cool - last thing and then I'm sure we've both got to go...
Josh says:
we came up with 3 reasons for you to NOT sign a peace deal with KISS... aside from just making your friends at MIA happy
Josh says:
wanted to pass them along for you to consider.
Josh says:
. MIA will not sign another long-term peace deal with KISS. As long as MIA and KISS do not have a long-term peace deal, Dnuts have nothing to fear from KISS.
Josh says:
2. When the eventual MIA/KISS war comes, DNuts may want the option of taking a KISS town or 3 on their continent - they don't want their hands tied by an unnecessary peace deal.

Josh says:
3. KISS is probably planning on grabbing as much of TNT's land as they can. If they have to have enough units there to escort settlers and guard towns, then they will not be able to settle as quickly. Dnuts can comfortably move all their troops to the north since MIA and Nuts have a peace deal so not having a peace deal with KISS will not slow the Dnut's settling at all, but it will slow KISS'.
casey j says:
all very good points. the land KISS settles will quickly be taken once we have rails in place, if it should come to that
casey j says:
land on our continent i mean
Josh says:
understood we obviously have our own self-interest in not seeing you make peace with KISS - but really, our two nations have some common strategic aims right now - makes for a good friendship

 

[Aigburth]

Killercane - Interested to hear your thoughts on IA strategy and proposed switch to communism?

 

[killercane]

I dont know, I was thinking about it today. I think it is only viable if we can goad the others into a war, then pick out the weaker of the two to perhaps even ally with. We could get really nasty with diplomacy (which we are bordering on already) including ROP rapes, tech stealing, and whatnot. Im glad we had our war early instead of late.

MIA (and probably KISS) will surely head for ToE, and then pick up Replaceable parts. While they do that we could get some factories up. I dont think we should switch to communism immediately when we get it, until we can get some jungle cleared or get the north part of the continent up and running. Switching to commie immediately before the other two are warring would be a clear indicator of our intentions.

We are a long way from attempting a landing on the other continent I think. We would need a lot of rifles to protect a landing or just be faced with getting decimated once we declare. We would also need a few ships to ferry troops.

I think we should load our army with rifles or infantry now that I think about it. All in all it is tough to say until we know what the other two are going to get themselves into.

 

[Robi D]

Keep advancing north with settlements, we will need to put pressure on the other 2 and start catching up. That will then leave them in a postion where they feel they need to do something or end up losing their lead to us. Other then that i agree with killer, lots of rifle/infantry to defend ourselves with, plus cannons/artillary

 

[killercane]

The diplomatic wheels keep churning..... got a pm from Whomp today

Hey Casey,

I wanted to let you know we whacked 4 more immortals on defense and only lost 1 pike. We're going to plink "Dancing 'Nana" a little to see what else is in there. I get the feeling there's about 6 buchets, 10ish pikes and 5-6 more immortals. We should coordinate from here on out.

We'd also like to discuss where we can settle, what to do with metal (it's in) and how to get the other techs as well as finalizing a "MIA is completely MIA" treaty. I think we both know the best way for either of us to win is if they're gone.

Thoughts?
Bernie

 

[killercane]

We are faced with a decision on our victory condition in my opinion, and we need to make a decision by Industrial. The two options are obviously space or domination/conquest.

For space, I think we should enter into an agreement for the rest of the game to go for space. We will help them with MIA in exchange for them giving us their cities on our continent (we give them whatever we take in MIA land). We expressly provide that we will not screw them with a backdoor attack. My thinking is that they will take it. I am firmly convinced we can outresearch them with our commercial trait and Pyramids trumping their religious trait, slightly more advanced infrastructure, and cleared jungle.

For domination or conquest, we will have to wait and see and play power broker. We will need loads of infantry, artillery and cavs to take advantage of whoever we deem to fight. Most of their troops will be fighting it out in the interior of their continent. Grab communism and go from there.

Im not convinced of the military route, and feel good about outresearching KISS en route to a space win.

 

[Nobody]

Dont get me wrong but arnt we allied with KISS?

 

[Robi D]

Dont get me wrong but arnt we allied with KISS?

We are, but we also want to win the game if we can too

 

[dl123654]

The major decisions we are about to face from now till the rest of game are all based on one question we should answer soon, how are we going to win this game. Space race and conquest/domination are the only choices and most if not every decision we have till the end of the game should reflect this decision.

For instance, I think we can assume that there will be an MIA vs KISS war sooner rather then later. What we need to decide as a team what side we will be on. We will be the deciding factor for either side. If we want space then I rather be facing KISS (non scientific) as opposed to MIA (scientific) because science research rate will be the determining factor in that race. Whereas if we were going for conquest I think I much rather face MIA currently because KISS were able to mount a successful invasion of TNT (this can of course change based on their performance in the KISS MIA war).

As stated before our goal after the war with TNT is we need to fill our continent with ICS and prepare for the Communism switch. Which brings up my last point when to switch to Communism. I personally always switch as fast as possible. However if we are going for Conquest/Domination I agree with waiting until we go to full military production with war mobilization, and pop rushing massive amounts of units to preparing to make landfall. But if we are going for Space we should switch as fast as possible because our research and production will increase while we will get a large break on unit matinence which will allow for higher research rates.

Sorry for the long post but I felt like inciting some conversation with this 3AM rant.

Disclaimer: I have never played civ3 against other people so feel free to correct/argue/discuss any part of this.

 

[killercane]

if we are going for Space we should switch as fast as possible because our research and production will increase while we will get a large break on unit matinence which will allow for higher research rates.

Research will be worse under communism. Commie is only viable to outproduce the others militarily.

Sorry for the long post but I felt like inciting some conversation with this 3AM rant.

Ranting is good we could use some more of it.

 

[dl123654]

Research will be worse under communism. Commie is only viable to outproduce the others militarily.

I think that depends on the situation at hand, what I usually find in my games is Communism while it loses the 1 trade per square (at most 12 per city currently) that is more then made up for when all your cities have 20% corruption and there is no unit costs. If you have 2 or 3 corrupted cities per core city in Republic that could balance it out while we have full production capabilities in Communism. Add libraries and uni using that production and the fact we can raise research because of no unit costs and this situation becomes easy to see why Communism could be a good switch but it all depends on our long term goals. If instead we leave all these ICS as science farms (growing to size 6 and using 3 scientists and have no improvements) and cut back on military to a defensive force and and emergency force for capital razing and Republic would be better.