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Turns 175-200

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by 2metraninja, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. bistrita

    bistrita Warlord

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    Litle economy time.

    I looked a litle at numbers, and we cant switch to US because of uhapines from WW so we will to representation and freee religin next turn and will finish paper , but we will use some scientist to get enough overflow so the turn afer to finish PP. Inmy estimate pp means 100 gold or science turn for us.
     
  2. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    What about OR to spread Budhism faster so we can get the religious victory monkey off our back?
     
  3. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Is anything happening ingame? :bump:
     
  4. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Our host Caledorn is changing houses and he needs things set up, so we have a pause. Which is nice timing actually, I am having hard time at work.
     
  5. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    I spoke with Caledorn last night. He expects to be able to get the games he is hosting back up and running at some point today.
     
  6. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I think CP counter-espionaged us. Which is bad for our plans to steal from them. But this is not something we can do about it. Main thing is CP must had more espionage points than it was allowed to run this mission on us. We must investigate and if this is true, we must decide what we do about CP breaking our NAP agreement.
     
  7. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    It turned out our agreement had a little door and CP used it:

    With all the religious bonuses, counter-espionage must have been like 50-70 espionage points for them, so no NAP is broken. I still asked Ot4e about it:

     
  8. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    So CP is trying to prevent us from stealing tech? Is there any particular reason or they just want to delay us from getting the tech.

    Also, how long does the counter-espy mission last? 10 turns? Should we just wait it out? If we wait it out and then log in at the beginning of the turn when it ends we can do the stealing with no counter-espy bruden before they have a chance to do another mission.

    They must be planning something, or else the mission was just an irrational waste of points.
     
  9. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    I am really surprised how calm you take it... for me running counterespionage is borderline act of war... especially if we can't counter it because the cost now exceeds the allowed EP's...

    I can see that they probably didn't break any written agreement, but there is always some spirit in agreements and I think the spirit was broken with this one...
     
  10. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Ot4e knows we got the GSpy from MZ and he expects us to use it to steal techs from him. Which we planned to do, but obviously not anymore :) We were planning to steal the Communism line from CP and Education-Rifling line from Uciv, but now we will have to change plans and actually tech ourselves liberalism and Education, then start to gather money to tech Scientific Method and Communism in some 10 turns while preparing to use both GSpies on Uciv and steal from them Replaceable Parts, Rifling, Constitution, Democracy, probably Corporation too. Fingers crossed that Uciv dont run counter-espionage on us. If they do, I guess we are back to Ot4e:
    Yes indeed. In 10 turns we can run our missions. Most probably we will have the comfort of playing before Ot4e anyway, because he will still be in war with WPC.

    Yes, they are planning to postpone our Communism->State Property date and so far they are doing well in this :(

    I dont see problem here. It is our (mine mainly, as it was me who wrote the text of the agreement) fault they had this backdoor. But it was good at that time, who could had thought about that we will be able to GSpy bomb them and to steal techs, but only after a new treaty which excludes any espionage clauses is signed.

    I dont see it as agression (even if I did, this is what written agreements are for), so this explains why I take it easy. Beside the fact that it screws our plans, I see it as good play on ot4e's side and not something I must be mad at him about :)
     
  11. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    We have 7 more turns NAP with WPC btw. Do we position army to take the 2-3 cities which are in our sphere of influence on the dawn of t200?
     
  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Are WPC already at War with somebody?

    If we attack WPC, will they de destroyed before our NAPs run out with the other teams? We don't want to be knee deep in a WPC War when CP or somebody else DoWs us.
     
  13. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Ot4e attacked WPC 3 turns ago and took 2 cities from them. We have 7 more turns of NAP with WPC, at least 20 turns (rolling) NAP with CP, 37 turns of NAP with Uciv and and almost no NAP with Poly (awaiting the new NAP signing).
     
  14. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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  15. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I forgot to tell we have 17 turns of NAP with CivFR.

    Attacking WPC is almost sure thing - why would we miss on 2 easy cities (one of them in clearly our territory which we allowed them to settle), beside Bistrita having some moral scruples :) Lets hope we get to this situation to have those 2 cities available at t200 and not ot4e conquers them before this.

    So, we will need to make the more important decision about who of the big fishes we want to attack - CivFR or CP and when.

    Reasons to attack CivFR first are good.

    - CivFR can be attacked earlier - 210 for both us and Poly
    - CIvFR we believe will fall easier than CP when attacked on two fronts we believe.
    - CivFR have nice cottaged land
    - MZ proposed already that we kill off CivFR together and split the spoil
    - we will have NAPs with CP in that time, making us secure from attack from them for at least 20 turns to do our job
    - our NAP with CP will forbid them giving help to CivFR
    - the french turnplayer is almost 100% sure less experienced and dangerous in both military strategy and military tactics than CP's Bemep and Ot4e

    There are of course downsides too.

    - we leave CP alone to consume their newly conquered WPC land and generally leave them alone to develop as whole, which might be very dangerous. We might find out we killed CivFR only to fall against uber-advanced CP.
    - in case ot4e dont find a way to subsidize CivFR with money and/or army and they seems doomed, he might well join the attack on them and conquer most of the French cities when purposefully or not, French give most resistance to us with Poly and not fight as seriously CP. This is quite possible scenario. Remember Spaniards throwin all at us while French had easy time in their backyard, or Germans choice to fight exclusively WPC and not RB, which resulted in WPC managing to not take a single city from them for the whole war, even while RB took almost all of German cities. Or in the most recent example, CP attacking WPC and having to fight the bulk of their armies, where if we attack WPC will take only almost empty cities. So in the end, we might actually enrich CP more instead of depriving them from an ally.

    We have quite a good reasons to attack CP too:

    - we go after our real competition
    - we will have way easier initial time because of our Sistine powered culture we will win second ring of most if not all ex-RB cities.
    - we might have Uciv join us against CP. Bistrita said Uciv are mad at Ot4e and want to stop their NAP and Uciv are preparing for war with third power in military.
    - we wont leave time to ot4e to establish his empire and somewhat will take him by surprise, at least messing with his plans seriously, because I am 100% sure he relies he will get NAP with us, while we can simply deny him NAP now.

    There are downsides here too.

    - If we choose to fight Ot4e, we will be alone for the first 15 turns - we can cancel NAP earliest t213, while Poly and CP have NAP to t230. Most probably we will have no NAP with CivFR too, so we will be in 2vs1 position again with us on the worse end of it. In case we bring Uciv along (need checking with them when they can attack CP), we will still be 2vs2 for the first 15 turns.

    - MZ is already committed to attacking CivFR at t210, so he might see us wanting to fight CP instead as somewhat betrayal


    So, we have to decide what we do. There are of course hybrid variants - like preparing to defend vs CivFR at t210 and preparing to attack CP at say t220 or 230 ?

    What you have to say guys? Do we give CP a NAP? To which turn? (ot4e said he will want NAP to t220 or 240 as he have NAP with MZ to t230) Which civ/s we attack and at what date/s ?
     
  16. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    I think it's important to coordinate with MZ while not taking too much so he jumps the ship

    I think CP is defeatable if we go together with MZ even if CP take some land from CivFR... if we take on them alone...that will be problem and one knows if MZ jumps the ship.
     
  17. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    To me this choice is easy. CivFr first all the way.

    2metra, I am not going to start lecturing about the other game, but the mere mention should alert you to my point. We must not go after CP first no matter how much it tempts you.;)

    Eliminate the ally first, then we go after CP together with Poly or UCiv or both.
     
  18. bistrita

    bistrita Warlord

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    got this from wpc
     

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  19. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    The Great General in the top right corner of the screenshot looks very dandy, hands on hips, swinging batton like a gentleman about town prancing along :lol:... Very pleased with himself as if he has not a care in the world :D
     
  20. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    I call for quick unofficial vote. Do we happily use WPC's idea to declare us a war to give us a way to attack them and take their cities thus denying them to CP, or we tell WPC that we prefer to wait to t200?

    It will be a bit cheap if WPC declare us a war to release us from the NAP burden. I understand how WPC feel towards CP and how they feel about us helping them the whole game, but I am just unsure about this. It is t196 and we can attack on beginning of t200 anyway. I am not sure if CP can take the 2 cities we consider "ours" before us though :( MZ said he is against using such trick to remove the NAP too. Is it OK to risk our closest ally to start think less of us for mere 3 turns and mere 2 cities? Ot4e did the mistake of insisting on 2-3 more cities from the RB division and he lost the friendship and respect from both us and MZ.

    In my opinion it is not worth.
     

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