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Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by lethiel, Mar 19, 2020.

  1. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Well a Slave that becomes free, is not a Slave anymore and thus of course also not counted as a Slave anymore.
    (But that of course does not happen by a button. That happens over time by "LbD Free" feature.)

    That is perfectly ok for me, considering gameplay. :c5happy:
    (And the way it works currently.)

    -----
    Just (technically) "killing" the Slave with a reward of any way (e.g. Gold if we reinterpret as "selling the slave") feels strange to me. :dunno:
    (Why should you then even acquire them?)

    I really do not think that is a good idea. :c5unhappy:

    -----
    Transforming a "Slave Unit" to a "Free Unit" with a button for gold feels strange to me as well, if it is not connected to e.g. a "Civic".
    (Which implies some strategic decision because by choosing that Civic you would most likely not be able to choose another one.)

    Without a strategic decison it would make Slavery pointless (and if we are not careful overpowered) - because you could just buy them cheap and release them with the Button ...

    I really do not think that is a good idea either. :c5unhappy:

    That would not work - Happiness / Unhappiness are not "stored" like e.g. Health (which can be built up or decreased over time).
    Happiness / Unhappiness always reflect the current situation. (It is always recalculated every turn.)

    -----
    Summary:
    I would really prefer first to use these balancing mechanisms:
    (They are easy and simple and do not risk damaging other features e.g. Civics and does not cause gameplay inconsistencies.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    AnAmericanCommunist likes this.
  2. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    I don't think slaves becoming free was an everyday occurrence historically. Correct me if I'm wrong. So atmospherically I don't think the rate for slaves to become free should be increased. (more likely it could be slightly reduced).



    What if all Europeans had a WHIP button in the settlement screen so for each settlement you can turn it on/off and the slaves inside will produces +2 raw materials (no multiplier bonuses) but there is a 8% chance per turn for each slave that it will die of exhaustion.

    That would make a slave strategy more useful if you chose to go for that. Furthermore there would be a strategic choice for each settlement when you want to keep your happiness intact, between whipping or investing in freeing your slaves. The Spanish would be incentivized to a whip strategy of course.
    This would also be a good feature for any pure mining settlements without much food around.
    (Of course this is a new feature and not an adjustment but hopefully not too much work)

    If you don't want to implement something like this then I would rather reduce slave cost/ increase slave productivity a bit than increasing the number of freed slaves running around.
     
    Schmiddie likes this.
  3. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    Maybe simply giving the Spanish only a production bonus for slaves (Trait: slave masters) is a simple and effective solution. So when playing the Spanish you would just accept their negative impact on happiness and not be incentivized to free them because they are good as they are for you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  4. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    How should I properly teach that to AI? :c5unhappy:
    I am also a bit concerned about gameplay effects - negative side effects and possible bugs. :dunno:

    Also I promised that I will not implement further features for the next months.
    (I implemented way too much already for a single release.)

    Thus:
    - we can focus again on bugfixing and improvements. (e.g. Multiplayer desynchs)
    - the rest of the team will have time to finish their work (e.g. Savgame Compatibility, Pathfinding, Text and Translation System, ...)

    Actually it is much more difficult than it sounds because of AI.
    (UI and balancing is also a bit of work but doable.)

    That might also be a good solution. :think:

    However:

    I still think that the Spanish should get an adjustment to their Trait that reduces Unhappiness from Slaves.
    (That modifier could then of course also be used by a Trait of a Founding Father.)
    • My major concern currently is the adjustment for the Spanish. (Which I want to keep simple and with minimal risk of side effects and bugs.)
    • Happiness and Slavery themselves have a lot of possible balancing modifiers already that might be used.
    I will think about it. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  5. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    Could the AI simply use one or the other i.e. not use whipping at all?



    :hug:


    It seems to me that the Spanish leaders historically just ignored the fact that many settlements were generally just miserable, unhappy places and just extracted a lot of resources to Europe. So that they did in fact suffer the effects of unhappiness in their settlements (e.g. few slaves became free, domestic markets not saturated, infrastructure less developed, more revolts from the slaves).
    So the trait, reduced unhappiness from slaves seems to be not really authentic but yes helps game balance.

    EDIT: But I mean balancing Spain relative to the other Europeans should have no priority compared to multiplayer de-syncs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  6. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @lethiel , @Cueball252

    Could you guys be interested to do another twich session for the upcoming release here , please?
    A preview as little advertisement would really be cool. :)
     
  7. Cueball252

    Cueball252 Chieftain

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    Hi Ray,

    I’m about to go away for 2 weeks but I can try get one out tomorrow morning!

    Ed
     
    raystuttgart likes this.
  8. Diapsalma

    Diapsalma Chieftain

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    Hi! Im also a streamer. Mostly stream Hearthstone but im planning on doing some WTP streams in the near future to help spread the word. Played a lot of R&R a few years ago and recently found WTP. Been playing Colonization since back in the Amiga days:)
    https://twitter.com/Diapsalma_HS https://www.twitch.tv/diapsalma https://discord.gg/pUvCcV6 Not bothered with a youtube channel but its in the pipeline.
    P.S. Forgot my account details here on the forum so created a new one...:D
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
  9. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    I've been somewhat busy and still am but I'll do a test with a new game maybe a bit today over the next couple of days.
     

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