TWO Capitals?!?!

[Kev]

Well, here's something weird that happened in the same game in which appeared the "Lake Barbarians" (see topic in this forum called lake barbarians).

Keeping an eye on the Persians, I noticed that a barbarian frigate was approaching their mainland so I backed off and let them get through. Barbarian dragoons offloaded and attacked the Persian capital and took it over.

Well, even though I can't imagine how they could have been the top civ, the civ split into the Persian "loyalists" and the new Indian empire (the mongols were killed off earlier by yours truly).

I ended up later buying the barbarian city, and later decided to move against the rest of the Persians and subsequently the Indians. I found that the Persians reestablished their capital in Parsagarde (sp?) while the new Indian capital was based in Susa. However, the Persians later retook Susa (not too sure by conquest or purchase), and wouldn't you know: a palace was still in Susa.

In essence, the Persians now had TWO CAPITALS - Susa and Parsagarde.

It was a bit of a pain in that I couldn't bribe either of the cities, but it didn't ruin my game by any stretch. I just thought this odd and was something that I've never seen before.

I think I'd like to go back and let the Persians continue and see what would evolve. If they launched a ship, what would be the repercussions of only taking down one capital?

Anyone else see this?

 

[BlueMonday]

HMM...I've never heard of anything like that ever happening. I had always observed that a palace was destroyed when it was captured by another civ.

------------------
<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/image_uploads/goodbye3.jpg" border=0>
<FONT COLOR="blue">I take every day one beer at a time; every beer one sip at a time.</FONT c>

 

[andycapp]

I've never seen or heard of this happening in Civ2 (not saying it didn't in your game). When playing Civ1 all sorts of weird things would happen (no, I wasn't sniffing illegal substances), like taking an enemy city which would still produce units for that Civ. This has also happened once whilst playing a Civ2 Scenario, although that might have been due to 'events file'.

Perhaps CFC should start some sort of record of all the weird things that happen in Civ games.

 

[Cedric Greene]

I have seen this before too, I thought it was some weird mistake, like maybe they were just finishing a palace in one city and the other hadn't been moved yet or whatever, just glad to know I'm not crazy

------------------
"Don't go down to the water's edge. They did it once, they can do it again. I swear I swear I swear I swear I didn't do... a thing I should have done... something." -Seven Mary Three

Cedric's Civilization II Page-Home of the *NEW* "Multiplayer Gold Edition" patch.
Cedric's CivNet Page

 

[starlifter]

After discovering this via another thread, I'll say I've seen 2 capitals at times, albeit rarely, too.

Here is the thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/Forum1/HTML/000453.html#8

After reading that post, I realized exactly where I'd recently seen something similar... I was playing the small map, Sten Sture's OCC classic called "4 Whales", and had decided to defeat the world within the confines of the OCC format. When I captured the Chinese capital, I later noticed they had 2 capitals. Since my own self-imposed rules were that a single city must defeat and utterly destroy every other city in the world, it made no real difference in my attack progression (e.g., I was not counting on bribing cities).

BTW, you need to destroy all capitals (if there are more than one) to get the SS.

 

[duke o' york]

Doesn't anyone else think that it's weird that the spaceship is launched from the palace? I don't want any bloody test flights interrupting my post presidential lunch cigars and port with the Persian ambassador.

------------------
in vino veritas

 

[Knight-Dragon]

You know, in times past, there were some countries and empires with two capitals. E.g. the Roman empire at somewhere near its end had two capitals at Rome (moved to Ravenna later on) and Constantinople and even two emperors. The western emperor was later defeated by Germanic invaders but the eastern emperor continued as the Byzantine Emperor. Another example is China. In Han times, they had a western capital at Chang'an (Xian today) and an eastern capital at Luoyang. And in Kashmir, the Maharaja used to have a summer capital and a winter capital at two different cities. Sometimes, the capital is where the king or emperor happened to be. Moves around with where the king or emperor is holding court.

 

[starlifter]

posted July 04, 2001 05:46 AM
You know, in times past, there were some countries and empires with two capitals. ...

That's a good historical example, SKM. Maybe it should be an "option" for players to build a secondary capital... In GOTM 6, I seemed mired in Monarchy for so long, and my empire was pretty lopsided. Boy, I sure coud have used a 2nd capital in the east to cut corruption. Even courthouses did not help out as much as I had hoped.

I wonder if anyone has able to finesse the construction of two human capitals in a game?

 

[duke o' york]

Even if you could build two capitals then surely the reduction in corruption would only occur around the city in which the ruler happened to be. You can move your capital, but there isn't a lot of point, especially if you have built cities all around your first city and moving the capital to an outlying city would endanger it (and you, the all-powerful leader

) . To save the spaceship is probably the only good reason to move the capital, or if your starting position sucked. Heaven forbid that the AI should ever take your capital. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/lol.gif" border=0>

------------------
in vino veritas

[This message has been edited by duke o' york (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

[starlifter]

posted July 05, 2001 04:14 AM
Even if you could build two capitals then surely the reduction in corruption would only occur around the city in which the ruler happened to be.

If you have a 2nd capital, the game will treat it the same as the 1st... corruption is cut for nearby cities. This is true for both AI and human; the program uses the distance to the nearest capital to compute corruption, not the first, or original, etc.

You can move your capital, but there isn't a lot of point, especially if you have built cities all around your first city and moving the capital to an outlying city would endanger it (and you, the all-powerful leader). To save the spaceship is probably the only good reason to move the capital,

In GOTM 6, I didn't even bother to get Masonry until about 1700 AD, which means building a capital was not an option anyway.

About saving a SS... I'd perfer just to destroy my capital... then it is no longer possible for a human or AI to destroy the SS, unless of course they destroy your entire civilization. If necessary, just move a capital to a size 1 city, then rush an engineer on the next turn. Your capital will disband, and you are bullet-proof.

But it would be cool if someone wiser than I could figure a way (without cheating) for the human to build a 2nd capital. I suspect it might could be done in the right circumstance if the AI took your capital and your own empire split. But of course that would not be a reasonable solution, even if it could work, LOL

.

 

[duke o' york]

What the hell were you thinking of, not researching masonry until AD1700? If my memory of the tech tree serves me correctly, Masonry gives construction which allows engineering which leads to invention, which meant that you allowed the AI to get Leonardo's!!!!!

Unless of course you found construction or one of the others in a hut, but playing without city walls is a bit risky too. I forget which level GOTM 6 was played at, but I'm assuming it wasn't chieftain and villages only.

------------------
in vino veritas

 

[starlifter]

posted July 05, 2001 08:08 AM
What the hell were you thinking of, not researching masonry until AD1700? If my memory of the tech tree serves me correctly, Masonry gives construction which allows engineering which leads to invention, which meant that you allowed the AI to get Leonardo's!!!!!

GOTM 6 was an "unusual" game, in certain respects. Since BW was already given, the direct path straight to Monarchy was open, so I researched it (A, CB, CL, Mon). After finishing Monarchy, most choices of tech research were suddenly not available, including Masonry, which I wanted. But my choices were: I Currency, HBR, MapMaking, Writing. Naturally, I took Writing, since I rely heavily upon diplomats for defense. It also meant I was likely going to lose the Pyramids to the evil English, which was a severe blow, esp. since I already had 2 cities working on Colossus, with the intent of getting both Colossus and Pyramids.

Anyway, the English were fast, and when I took Trondheim, Warrior Code was forced upon me, slowing research just enough to ensure I could not recover and get Masonry & complete the Pyramids before the English. So I went for Currency-Trade, to get Marco Polo. That worked, and with trades, Masonry and several other techs were bypassed easily. Fortunately, all civs except the Vikings already had Masonry, so later, the GL did not force that upon me.

Thus, I was able to avoid Masonry (and the science slowdown of an unneeded tech) until about 1620, when I had to take it after bribing a Celt city. Its funny, I never even considered walls for an instant in any of my cities in GOTM 6. Your comment was the first time I even consciously realized that. However, I had noticed that I could not build a palace due to not having masonry.

And no, I did not allow the AI to get Leonardos... Once I had King Richard, Leos was in the bag.

Unless of course you found construction or one of the others in a hut, but playing without city walls is a bit risky too.

Huts were not kind to me in GOTM 6. Normally, my priority is for caravans and diplomats over city walls. I rarely build city walls in any game, esp. early on. Anyone getting near my cities will get bribed, or else the battle will occur on terrain outside my city, like on a roaded hill.

Similarly, the Great Wall is a nice "luxury" to have, but almost invariably, my priorities are for other wonders, like Pyramids, Colossus, Marco Polo, Michelangelo, King Richard, Leonardos, etc. Especially if I want a strong mid-game navy... since not having the GW will not slow down my onslaught of Electricity (destroyers), which of course goes through Metallurgy (cancels GW).

 

[Az]

Has it ever occured to YOU to have two capitals.

Once I remember I did end up with two but I don't know how this had happened...

 

[starlifter]

By Az:

Has it ever occured to YOU to have two capitals.
Once I remember I did end up with two but I don't know how this had happened...

In an eariler post, I mentioned something about humans and more than one capital:

from Starlifter's last paragraph, posted July 05, 2001 05:25 AM:

But it would be cool if someone wiser than I could figure a way (without cheating) for the human to build a 2nd capital. ....

If someone knew a way to do this without splitting an empire, it would be a huge advantage for a sprawling monarchy (I often get 50-60 sice 6-8 Monarchy cities, at deity, large map). However, I'd still not want to use it in my own games because the manual clearly states that you only get one capital, and the old one is supposed to go away when you make a new one somewhere else.

In effect, you could have the low corruption and high bribe costs of Communism, while expanding and growing like a Monarchy (settlers eat one food in Mon, 2 in Com)... if you could get more than one capital.

BTW, I tried some experiments with capitals in cheat mode and the power of several capitals would really unbalance the game.

 

[starlifter]

LOL, one more comment about 2 capitals...

From experimenting in cheat mode, I discovered you can't get rid of the 2nd capital once you get it... unless of course you destroy the entire city that contains the capital! Even "cheat" mode won't let you cheat and dump your excess capitals.

 

[HIEROPHANT]

That would be a vary powerful weapon if there is way to have 2 capital without cheating. I hope can figure this out this would add to my power.

 

[HIEROPHANT]

That would be a vary powerful weapon if there is way to have 2 capital without cheating. I hope I can figure this out this would add to my power.

 

[starlifter]

posted July 16, 2001 03:18 PM
That would be a vary powerful weapon if there is way to have 2 capital without cheating. I hope I can figure this out this would add to my power.

Keep in mind that even if you "found" a way to have 2 capitals, it would actaully be pretty clear that would be cheating, because the manual explcitly says that you are supposed to have one capital, and when you build a new one, the old one is supposed to be destroyed. It was grossly unbalance the game to have a 2nd (or more) capitals, esp. in Monarchy or Republic.